Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters?

[Avon]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

sometimes his cameos are the best thing in the movies

 

[Christopher]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

I noticed that the credits to Age of Ultron list Stan Lee as "Himself" -- and in the movie, he's playing a WWII veteran claiming to have been part of the Normandy invasion, even though Lee's WWII service was in the Signal Corps and the training-film division. But then, given Lee's reputation for taking credit for other people's work, maybe he really was playing himself...?

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

I noticed that the credits to Age of Ultron list Stan Lee as "Himself" -- and in the movie, he's playing a WWII veteran claiming to have been part of the Normandy invasion, even though Lee's WWII service was in the Signal Corps and the training-film division. But then, given Lee's reputation for taking credit for other people's work, maybe he really was playing himself...?

I don't think he takes credit for peoples work exactly he just takes the glory that the media seems to give to him and rarely acknowledges the other half of the team. Human nature to do that? Perhaps. I can understand this to some extent because he is a showman. If anyone develops a movie detailing marvels history I would hope that Stan wouldn't get the lions share of the credit for the creations and that the movie would focus on the other creators as well. He was half of a team on most of the best creations.

 

[Admiral2]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

Stan has been actively been promoting Marvel for decades. He is the face of Marvel Comics. He's developed a public persona, much like Shatner has. So it's not surprising people know about him. Not sure about down playing Kirby ( or Ditko) In the past he's usually been up front about his artistic collaborators contributions.

No, he has not. In the 70s and 80s, Kirby and Ditko spent much time in interviews complaining that Lee slapped his name all over creations/plots they developed independently, or in partnership with him. Being a promotional man is one thing, but making yourself the Grand Creator of All Marvel was pure, treacherous bull.

He was no better than Bob Kane's cutthroat mistreatment of Bill Finger in the creation of significant parts of the Batman mythos, or George Barris flat out laying claim to famous Hollywood custom cars he had little to nothing to do with.

I have read much of the same about Kirby and Ditkos complaints. Also after reading the article Savage posted I can see that Stan didn't give a hoot about the artwork and had Romita change others work. Why not ask the original artist to change a face or other area instead of asking someone else to do it? Those kind of decisions would have pissed me off.

I've read Kirby's complaints too. I've also read stuff Kirby created post-Marvel. As much as he complained about Lee, he needed him. Kirby was shit at writing readable scripts.

 

[Noname Given]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

It seems that Stan Lee is getting all the credit for the Marvel Comic characters that have populated the successful Disney Marvel comic movies at the detriment of Jack Kirby. While I love Stan Lee he doesn't seem to concerned with mentioning Kirby very much when he is interviewed. In these last few years Stan Lee has morphed from a figure well known to comic book fans to a celebrity now well known to the general population since the success of the first Spidey films and now even more so since the success of the Disney Marvel films. The general population thinks that Stan came up with all these characters on his own and was a one man creative machine when really Kirby had just as much to do with it. Yeah kirbys name is given on the movies as a created by credit but tptb seem to be basically sweeping him under the rug when it comes time to promoting the movies. Even when Stan is asked questions in interviews the interviewers almost always ask him how HE created the characters and so forth without ever mentioning Kirby. I think its a great injustice and even more sad that Stan is getting rich while Kirbys surviving family gets nothing. Friends of mine for instance that never read the comics all love Stan and are amazed how many characters he created including Captain America. I remind them that Kirby created cap and that he co created many of the characters they think Stan created alone. The response I usually get is "Whos Jack Kirby". Anyone else find that kind of sad that Kirby has been largely ignored?


p.s. I know hes dead but I believe he should be just as celebrated as Stan. If anything just for the respect of the amazing work he did.

I agree, but the fact is Mr. Lee is still living, so when they want to talk to someone DIRECTLY involved with a given marvel character's creation, he gets the call/interview. I know that it caused a lot of friction between Lee and Kirby when Kirby was alive (so much so that jack Kirby went to DC comics back in the day and then freelance for a time.)

I'd like to hope it wasn't something Stan lee did overtly or consciously over the years (IE try to overplay his role or take the lion's share of the credit) but hey, human nature being what it is...

 

[Saga]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

if you haven't seen it, watch In Search of Steve Ditko. there is an interview with Stan Lee and he really struggles to say Ditko co-created Spidey. at one point Lee pretty much says that he came up with the idea and all Ditko did was do some drawings.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

No, he has not. In the 70s and 80s, Kirby and Ditko spent much time in interviews complaining that Lee slapped his name all over creations/plots they developed independently, or in partnership with him. Being a promotional man is one thing, but making yourself the Grand Creator of All Marvel was pure, treacherous bull.

He was no better than Bob Kane's cutthroat mistreatment of Bill Finger in the creation of significant parts of the Batman mythos, or George Barris flat out laying claim to famous Hollywood custom cars he had little to nothing to do with.

I have read much of the same about Kirby and Ditkos complaints. Also after reading the article Savage posted I can see that Stan didn't give a hoot about the artwork and had Romita change others work. Why not ask the original artist to change a face or other area instead of asking someone else to do it? Those kind of decisions would have pissed me off.

I've read Kirby's complaints too. I've also read stuff Kirby created post-Marvel. As much as he complained about Lee, he needed him. Kirby was shit at writing readable scripts.

Kirby's New Gods had a lasting impact on DC--not only in comics, but in adaptations & merchandising long after the original publications. The entire NG universe is usually cited as Kirby's only other great creation outside of his Marvel work.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

I don't have much to add on this but I thought this was some interesting reading if you have the time. It's John Romita's deposition for the Kirby Family Vs Marvel Lawsuit and is an interesting look at how Marvel worked in the early days.

Excellent article Savage. I didn't know that Stan had John Romita Sr. change Kirbys and others art. It still bothers Romita 50 years later. Interesting.

IIRC, DC did the same thing to Kirby (and probably others) on his Superman books. It was just SOP at the time.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

if you haven't seen it, watch In Search of Steve Ditko. there is an interview with Stan Lee and he really struggles to say Ditko co-created Spidey. at one point Lee pretty much says that he came up with the idea and all Ditko did was do some drawings.

Yeah Lee has said that on more than one occasion. I also saw him at a convention on youtube and someone asked him about the creators or something to that effect and even mentioned Kirby. Stan kind of glossed over the question and didn't really answer it. I will watch the In search of Steve Ditko.

 

[urbandefault]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

I don't have much to add on this but I thought this was some interesting reading if you have the time. It's John Romita's deposition for the Kirby Family Vs Marvel Lawsuit and is an interesting look at how Marvel worked in the early days.

Excellent article Savage. I didn't know that Stan had John Romita Sr. change Kirbys and others art. It still bothers Romita 50 years later. Interesting.

IIRC, DC did the same thing to Kirby (and probably others) on his Superman books. It was just SOP at the time.

Here's a blog entry I ran across with some good examples.

http://jackkirbysingularity.blogspot.com/

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

Excellent article Savage. I didn't know that Stan had John Romita Sr. change Kirbys and others art. It still bothers Romita 50 years later. Interesting.

IIRC, DC did the same thing to Kirby (and probably others) on his Superman books. It was just SOP at the time.

Here's a blog entry I ran across with some good examples.

http://jackkirbysingularity.blogspot.com/

Its amazing that the companies would do this. Kirbys art is fantastic and iconic. I actually preferred the Kirby Superman face. Classic Kirby depictions. I wonder if this still goes on.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

I don't have much to add on this but I thought this was some interesting reading if you have the time. It's John Romita's deposition for the Kirby Family Vs Marvel Lawsuit and is an interesting look at how Marvel worked in the early days.

Excellent article Savage. I didn't know that Stan had John Romita Sr. change Kirbys and others art. It still bothers Romita 50 years later. Interesting.

IIRC, DC did the same thing to Kirby (and probably others) on his Superman books. It was just SOP at the time.

The editor on the Superbooks was one Mort Weisinger considered by some to be the worst person at DC and hated all around.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

Excellent article Savage. I didn't know that Stan had John Romita Sr. change Kirbys and others art. It still bothers Romita 50 years later. Interesting.

IIRC, DC did the same thing to Kirby (and probably others) on his Superman books. It was just SOP at the time.

The editor on the Superbooks was one Mort Weisinger considered by some to be the worst person at DC and hated all around.

I figured it was something like that. SOP my psoterior.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

if you haven't seen it, watch In Search of Steve Ditko. there is an interview with Stan Lee and he really struggles to say Ditko co-created Spidey. at one point Lee pretty much says that he came up with the idea and all Ditko did was do some drawings.

Was that the one where he or someone else claimed Ditko had never planned for Norman to be the Green Goblin?

 

[Saga]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

if you haven't seen it, watch In Search of Steve Ditko. there is an interview with Stan Lee and he really struggles to say Ditko co-created Spidey. at one point Lee pretty much says that he came up with the idea and all Ditko did was do some drawings.

Was that the one where he or someone else claimed Ditko had never planned for Norman to be the Green Goblin?

i think so. its been awhile since i watched it.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

IIRC, DC did the same thing to Kirby (and probably others) on his Superman books. It was just SOP at the time.

Here's a blog entry I ran across with some good examples.

http://jackkirbysingularity.blogspot.com/

Its amazing that the companies would do this. Kirbys art is fantastic and iconic. I actually preferred the Kirby Superman face. Classic Kirby depictions. I wonder if this still goes on.

Not really; Romita had become the most appealing style at Marvel to the degree where he defined the company's look, even in Kirby's last year there. It was not uncommon to see him ink or embellish faces of work by legends such as Gil Kane, Frank Robbins, Tuska, Severin, Colan and others--all to add a sort of consistency / Marvel style company wide.

At DC, Carmine Infantino and Neal Adams both added to original cover and/or face designs on numerous 60s / 70s covers illustrated by many top artists, probably for the same aesthetic / branding reasons.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

^Like I said... SOP.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

Here's a blog entry I ran across with some good examples.

http://jackkirbysingularity.blogspot.com/

Its amazing that the companies would do this. Kirbys art is fantastic and iconic. I actually preferred the Kirby Superman face. Classic Kirby depictions. I wonder if this still goes on.

Not really; Romita had become the most appealing style at Marvel to the degree where he defined the company's look, even in Kirby's last year there. It was not uncommon to see him ink or embellish faces of work by legends such as Gil Kane, Frank Robbins, Tuska, Severin, Colan and others--all to add a sort of consistency / Marvel style company wide.

At DC, Carmine Infantino and Neal Adams both added to original cover and/or face designs on numerous 60s / 70s covers illustrated by many top artists, probably for the same aesthetic / branding reasons.

Unfortunately it looks like they really neutered Kirbys stuff. Some of his art was so changed it no longer looked like he did it.

 

[Admiral2]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

I have read much of the same about Kirby and Ditkos complaints. Also after reading the article Savage posted I can see that Stan didn't give a hoot about the artwork and had Romita change others work. Why not ask the original artist to change a face or other area instead of asking someone else to do it? Those kind of decisions would have pissed me off.

I've read Kirby's complaints too. I've also read stuff Kirby created post-Marvel. As much as he complained about Lee, he needed him. Kirby was shit at writing readable scripts.

Kirby's New Gods had a lasting impact on DC--not only in comics, but in adaptations & merchandising long after the original publications. The entire NG universe is usually cited as Kirby's only other great creation outside of his Marvel work.

Granted, but having tried to slog through the Hunger Dogs graphic novel I'm going to have to agree to disagree...

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: Does Stan Lee Get Too Much Of The Credit For The Marvel Characters

^Like I said... SOP.

Im not sure it was a SOP. It seems it depends on what editor you get. Kirbys work looked great and for them to change it seemed petty. Yeah maybe they wanted to keep a certain look than why even have Kirby draw anything if they were just going to change so much of it from other artists. Kirby had a definite style for the faces(Chins always had the squiggly line). Drawings and comics that Kirby did that are untouched are the best ones if you ask me and the ones that didn't get butchered probably were done when editors that were know it all dickheads weren't around or a replacement editor was there.