This may have already been mentioned, but what's bugging me is that Earth's moon was still there when they returned. Really, the Doctor ought to have had a second, easier retrieval mission to go grab that from wherever it got off to. And what of the gravitational disturbance Earth's removal would have on the rest of the solar system? At the very least it ought to have shaken up the asteroid belt a bit.
Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)
- Thread starter Servo
- Start date
I doubt they'll be hostile, sure he didn't let them take the Tardis but everything worked out in the end. All the planets are back where they need to be. My guess is that they'll let it slide, though they may not be as willing to work with him again in the future.
I wanted to see Part II before putting in my 2 cents. I started watching Dr. Who 30 years ago this month when my local PBS station showed "Robot". (ironically, Sarah Jane Smith was there, too) I know that the season finale had some over the top moments, lots of fanwank, some bad science, etc. but, if you have been with this show for the loooooong haul, (and 30 years with a show is a long haul), then these episodes were a colossal payoff. "Stolen Earth" and "Journeys End" were Dr. Who produced on an epic level unimaginable in the "Robot" days. SJS, K9 and Davros might have seemed like window dressing to some, but their presence was a big payoff to someone like me. I know that this show might not seem impressive to folks who grew up with TNG, B5 and X-Files, but in those dark days when there was virtually no new sci-fi on tv, Dr. Who was pretty damn impressive. (even with BBC's modest effects budget) It's great to see just how far this show has come that it can produce two episodes like these, along with all the other excellent stories we've seen in the last 4 years. Plus Torchwood. Plus Sarah Jane Adventures. Between the spinoffs and the huge ratings the finale got in the UK, I can't believe that Dr. Who may be hitting a new high-water mark in popularity in 2008! And to think I thought this show was dead for good back in '91. So, the critics on this board can say what they want (and many of their criticisms are valid), but I was smiling from ear to ear for both eps and I'm glad I was here to see them. 
One additional note: I'm REALLY going to miss Donna.
One additional note: I'm REALLY going to miss Donna.
I wanted to see Part II before putting in my 2 cents. I started watching Dr. Who 30 years ago this month when my local PBS station showed "Robot". (ironically, Sarah Jane Smith was there, too) I know that the season finale had some over the top moments, lots of fanwank, some bad science, etc. but, if you have been with this show for the loooooong haul, (and 30 years with a show is a long haul), then these episodes were a colossal payoff. "Stolen Earth" and "Journeys End" were Dr. Who produced on an epic level unimaginable in the "Robot" days. SJS, K9 and Davros might have seemed like window dressing to some, but their presence was a big payoff to someone like me. I know that this show might not seem impressive to folks who grew up with TNG, B5 and X-Files, but in those dark days when there was virtually no new sci-fi on tv, Dr. Who was pretty damn impressive. (even with BBC's modest effects budget) It's great to see just how far this show has come that it can produce two episodes like these, along with all the other excellent stories we've seen in the last 4 years. Plus Torchwood. Plus Sarah Jane Adventures. Between the spinoffs and the huge ratings the finale got in the UK, I can't believe that Dr. Who may be hitting a new high-water mark in popularity in 2008! And to think I thought this show was dead for good back in '91. So, the critics on this board can say what they want (and many of their criticisms are valid), but I was smiling from ear to ear for both eps and I'm glad I was here to see them.
One additional note: I'm REALLY going to miss Donna.
Fantastic. Incredibly well-put. I'm an old schooler, myself (twenty-nine years for me), and I couldn't agree more. Not to mention, it was a damn near perfect wrap-up of the RTD era...
I'm sure he just bopped back in time a bit and returned the Earth to a few nanoseconds from the time it left.
Haahahahahaha!
I don't remember that bit was that his first or second show?
You should find the Alan Carr Dalek and JLC assistant
I don't remember that bit was that his first or second show?
You should find the Alan Carr Dalek and JLC assistant
Thanks, Arch101! You spoke for a lot of us long-time fans, I think. My first Doctor Who exposure was 42 (!) years ago and I can't remember a set of stories I've enjoyed more, man and boy, than "Stolen Earth" and "Journey's End" for many of the same reasons you cited. It's a long, long way from shag-carpet "yeti" in the Tube!
Thanks, RTD, for bringing the Doctor and friends all the way back from TV oblivion to BBC flagship.
Thanks, RTD, for bringing the Doctor and friends all the way back from TV oblivion to BBC flagship.
Average...
So Rose is stuck in that Universe, and it is being closed off forever... AGAIN? Geez.
Why be so final about it when we all know that it could be reverted by any writer at anytime? again?
This two-parter just had way too many characters. The Torchwood and Sarah Jane people should not have been included. And no Rose. Please. Ever. Again. (And they had to bring her *MOM* back too???)
I won't even mention the multiple Doctor cop out(s).
Donna and her fate was the only real good dramatic piece of this episode, and the last meeting with the Doctor and her family at least made the episode go out on a (relatively) high note. From a quality standpoint... Indeed a sad ending.
Still - IMO this was the worst finale yet of the Nu-Who series.
So Rose is stuck in that Universe, and it is being closed off forever... AGAIN? Geez.
Why be so final about it when we all know that it could be reverted by any writer at anytime? again?This two-parter just had way too many characters. The Torchwood and Sarah Jane people should not have been included. And no Rose. Please. Ever. Again. (And they had to bring her *MOM* back too???)
I won't even mention the multiple Doctor cop out(s).Donna and her fate was the only real good dramatic piece of this episode, and the last meeting with the Doctor and her family at least made the episode go out on a (relatively) high note. From a quality standpoint... Indeed a sad ending.
Still - IMO this was the worst finale yet of the Nu-Who series.
I agree that it's a bit dumb and frustrating, but take solace in this: Billie Piper and Russel T. Davis both said in Doctor Who Confidential for "Turn Left" that the plan was to bring Rose back a couple years down the line but it was kept very quiet. I very much doubt Moffat will bring Rose back.So Rose is stuck in that Universe, and it is being closed off forever... AGAIN? Geez.
To each their own, but when I learned that Rose was returning, I immediately began hoping Mickey and Jackie would return to soften the blow.And no Rose. Please. Ever. Again. (And they had to bring her *MOM* back too???)
There were a lot of ridiculous moments evened out by some fantastic moments.
What I Didn't Like:
- Davros was ridiculous and silly. And no, not in a good way. My Dad walked in as I was watching a scene with Davros and I felt like saying, "It's not always this stupid."
- The "human" Doctor was a bit of a cop out and I could've done without it.
- The reality bomb was just stupid. Especially when they kept screaming "REALITY BOMB!!!!"
- The regeneration cliffhanger wasn't really resolved all that well. Another cop out.
What I Did Like:
- Donna was great in this episode. From her, "No, really, you can hug me" line to her begging the Doctor not to take her memories. This was a very uneven season but Donna was fab all the way through. I'm really going to miss her and I think she just might be my favorite companion (including old, new and books).
- The final scenes with the Doctor and Wilf, the Doctor leaving Donna and the Doctor standing alone in the TARDIS all brought a couple of tears to my eyes.
- The idea that the Doctor does a lot of damage despite his good intentions is something that I never thought this series would bring up but I'm very happy it did. The Doctor remembering the faces of those that died was a fantastic moment.
- I really loved seeing everyone again. Sure it may be a bit silly but that was silly in a good way.
All in all I'd give it a 3.5/4. Not quite as good as "The Stolen Earth" but enjoyable nonetheless.
What I Didn't Like:
- Davros was ridiculous and silly. And no, not in a good way. My Dad walked in as I was watching a scene with Davros and I felt like saying, "It's not always this stupid."
- The "human" Doctor was a bit of a cop out and I could've done without it.
- The reality bomb was just stupid. Especially when they kept screaming "REALITY BOMB!!!!"
- The regeneration cliffhanger wasn't really resolved all that well. Another cop out.
What I Did Like:
- Donna was great in this episode. From her, "No, really, you can hug me" line to her begging the Doctor not to take her memories. This was a very uneven season but Donna was fab all the way through. I'm really going to miss her and I think she just might be my favorite companion (including old, new and books).
- The final scenes with the Doctor and Wilf, the Doctor leaving Donna and the Doctor standing alone in the TARDIS all brought a couple of tears to my eyes.
- The idea that the Doctor does a lot of damage despite his good intentions is something that I never thought this series would bring up but I'm very happy it did. The Doctor remembering the faces of those that died was a fantastic moment.
- I really loved seeing everyone again. Sure it may be a bit silly but that was silly in a good way.
All in all I'd give it a 3.5/4. Not quite as good as "The Stolen Earth" but enjoyable nonetheless.
Fantastic! What a fun trip. And it was great having everybody from the Doctor Who universe along for the ride. The Daleks were finally made the epic villains that they so long deserved.
Can't help but wonder if Martha and Mickey will be joining Torchwood, now.
Sean
Can't help but wonder if Martha and Mickey will be joining Torchwood, now.
Sean
I don't watch Dr Who-only the C.E. season. I grew up on the old series-but that was a long time ago. I do watch Torchwood-and when I saw Cpt Jack was going to be in the season finale-Woohoo! I enjoyed the 2 parter-and knew enough about the Dr to enjoy what they did with all of the characters coming together. It was a lot of fun.
What, even though they were all defeated by someone pressing buttons?
They were defeated because Caan set them up if he hadn't no amount of button pushing by an earth brained Donna wasn't going to do much of anything.
Without Caan's plan in the works everything else would've been far too much of a coinsidence and the Doctor pointed that out in the finale.
Yes, we get it, you disliked it, you don't have to argue with everyone who liked it, can we move on now?
I was thinking a bit more about Donna's fate - it was a very unexpected move for RTD not to set everything right again. I was hit pretty hard by it since "The Runaway Bride" was one of the very very first episodes of Doctor Who I'd ever seen, and I fell in love with Catherine Tate (no, not like that!). Donna's end is definitely the most tragic for any companion - at least Jamie and Zoe were good people before the Time Lords wiped their minds. The kind, caring Donna was flat-out killed, and the old, shallow Donna came back. Very very tragic. And, for me, that really changed this finale from a good episode to an excellent episode.
Agreed! Donna is, in my opinion, the best companion since the return of the series. Catherine Tate is a hell of an actress...