Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

[davejames]

Wow, "fangasm" is right. That was just superb. I know RTD gets a lot of flack for some of his writing, but when he gets it right, he really gets it right.

And I agree it would have been awesome to see Eccleston again (I bet he even would have been up for it if asked), but there were already so many characters he might have gotten lost in the crowd-- and he really deserves to have more than a cameo appearance anyway.

 

[Captain Dago]

Sorry -- partial entry. See the next entry....

 

[Captain Dago]

- Christmas Special preview: Cybermen in Victorian England (presumably at Christmas :P). Sound of Cybermen footsteps, but sounding suspiciously 'steampunky'. Maybe my imagination.

What? What?! WHAT!?! We didn't get a Christmas Special teaser in the US.

You bloody lucky Limeys!

 

[WalkinMan]

Wow, incredible finale on Scifi tonight. I'm still digesting it all...

 

[DWF]

Amen to that. I tried to decide if my favorite is Eccleston or Tennant when the subject came up a little while ago, and the tie-breaker ended up being that I really, really wish the DonnaDoctor had been Eccleston. I figure if I want him back that much, I must miss him.

Also, someday I'll have to write down my elaborate plot idea about Donna's ultimate fate, because it ties in perfectly with another elaborate Doctor Who theory I'd had, as well as something that I didn't feel was quite tied off by the end of this episode, namely the "force" tying the Doctor and Donna together. It seems just a little too cute that all these coincidences happened because she and only she, completely arbitrarily, had to touch his hand. No, I feel like there's some reason it had to be Donna Nobel, among all the people of the universe, who was the one to prod the duplicate Doctor into existence.

I don't think there was anything arbitrary about it, it was clearly Caan hwo planned things out I don't tink things happened by accident just as in the first season the Bad Wolf refences weren't be accident.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well I guess we now know where the human Doctor from the Cushing movies came from. Eventually he'll build a TARDIS and go travelling through time with his and Rose's granddaughters.

Hey, I'm pretty sure that actually works (except The Doctor would grow, not build, a TARDIS).

I voted Fantastic. Highlights were Catherine Tate, Bernard Cribbins and K-9! Very bitter sweet ending. Very much a fate worse than death as I believe Emh said.

Yup, that was me.

Amen to that. I tried to decide if my favorite is Eccleston or Tennant when the subject came up a little while ago, and the tie-breaker ended up being that I really, really wish the DonnaDoctor had been Eccleston. I figure if I want him back that much, I must miss him.

Also, someday I'll have to write down my elaborate plot idea about Donna's ultimate fate, because it ties in perfectly with another elaborate Doctor Who theory I'd had, as well as something that I didn't feel was quite tied off by the end of this episode, namely the "force" tying the Doctor and Donna together. It seems just a little too cute that all these coincidences happened because she and only she, completely arbitrarily, had to touch his hand. No, I feel like there's some reason it had to be Donna Nobel, among all the people of the universe, who was the one to prod the duplicate Doctor into existence.

I don't think there was anything arbitrary about it, it was clearly Caan hwo planned things out I don't tink things happened by accident just as in the first season the Bad Wolf refences weren't be accident.

David cgc was referring specifically to the arbitrariness of Donna touching The Doctor's hand, which really Caan had no direct control over. He could (and did) set up the events that would put Donna in that situation, but he had no control over her actually doing that act.

 

[DWF]

David cgc was referring specifically to the arbitrariness of Donna touching The Doctor's hand, which really Caan had no direct control over. He could (and did) set up the events that would put Donna in that situation, but he had no control over her actually doing that act.

No Caan could see in a nonlinear manner so yeah he knew ahead of time that, that would happen even the Ood could see it happening before it happened.

 

[David cgc]

My point is, it could've just as easily been Jack or Rose who heard an odd noise and stayed in the TARDIS for a moment and was locked in when the doors closed themselves, and things would've ended up exactly the same (except for which of them ended up with no memory). Even up to a minute before the decisive moment, there was no reason it had to be Donna, other than the fact it just ended up being Donna. The Bad Wolf is different, because it was a creature with control over all of time and space, and so could deliberately create itself, and creating the Bad Wolf was the only possible way to save the Doctor. The DoctorDonna and the DonnaDoctor were much tinier, and nothing would've been changed if it were the DoctorJack or the DoctorRose, which is what led me to decide there should be some other factor involved if the show was going to insist that the universe itself deemed it had to be Donna and only Donna who touched the hand.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

Wow. Not one-bile filled post from the Americans yet - interesting contrast with a lot of the original showing's reaction.

Also, the DoctorJack is a terrifying prospect.

 

[JD]

I've always been a big fan of Russel Davies episodes, and this was probably his best IMO. It was really great getting to see all of these characters working together. The only real complain I have is that I wish at least one of the "Children of Time" could have stayed with the Doctor. But that mostly goes back to my wishing that the companions stuck around for more than a season or two. Is there a reason why they seem to go through cast members on through cast members so quickly?

I really hope that they do bring Mickey and Martha onto Torchwood, because I've always liked both of them.

 

[Nedersong]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

I did like the episode. i was sorry to see Donna go, but at least she wasn't killed off.

Still she did do a pretty good imitation of the Doctor.

I guess she had to make way for the Doctor's wife, which I suspect will be the next one.

And plus they've yet to reveal the higher power that was allgedly manipulating the Doctor to be in so that could be the focus of next season.

Another thing I suspect that will happen sometime in the next season is that the Shadow Proclamation will be hostile to the Doctor and try to get back at him in some way for his betrayal.

However, I am suspicious that all those deaths were for the sole purpose of putting the Doctor in the place he needed to be in throughout the entire season in order to save the multiverse.

And, what happened to Tosh and Owen from Torchwood? did she die or just leave somehow? I wasn't able to catch the last five episodes of that season.

 

[Lindley]

And, what happened to Tosh and Owen from Torchwood? did she die or just leave somehow? I wasn't able to catch the last five episodes of that season.

They're both dead. Although since Owen was already undead before he "died" again, his return is always possible.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

And, what happened to Tosh and Owen from Torchwood? did she die or just leave somehow? I wasn't able to catch the last five episodes of that season.

They're both dead. Although since Owen was already undead before he "died" again, his return is always possible.

Nothing says "I may or may not be dead" more loudly than a screen white-out!

On the other hand, nothing says "you may be undead but you also have no ability to heal a wound" like the threat of massive decomposition and disintegration either. I hope he does come back though.

Tosh on the other hand is incredibly dead.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

IAnd plus they've yet to reveal the higher power that was allgedly manipulating the Doctor to be in so that could be the focus of next season.

However, I am suspicious that all those deaths were for the sole purpose of putting the Doctor in the place he needed to be in throughout the entire season in order to save the multiverse.

They did reveal it - it was Dalek Caan manipulating time and space so that the Doctor and Donna would be together at the right time to end the Daleks (which is a bit of a joke considering Caan himself brought Davros back to create them!).

ETA - should have found out before but how does multi-quote work so I can stop double-replying?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

IAnd plus they've yet to reveal the higher power that was allgedly manipulating the Doctor to be in so that could be the focus of next season.

However, I am suspicious that all those deaths were for the sole purpose of putting the Doctor in the place he needed to be in throughout the entire season in order to save the multiverse.

They did reveal it - it was Dalek Caan manipulating time and space so that the Doctor and Donna would be together at the right time to end the Daleks (which is a bit of a joke considering Caan himself brought Davros back to create them!).

But Caan probably began manipulating time and space after saving Davros.

ETA - should have found out before but how does multi-quote work so I can stop double-replying?

Click on "Multi Quote" for each post you want to quote and then hit either "Quote" on the last post you want to reply to or hit "Post Reply" at the end of the thread.

 

[propita]

Okay, I've only read to page 10, but I figured I post anyway.

I know a lot of people are disappointed that the Daleks were defeated by "flipping switches"--but that was the whole thing about Donna: She could type 100 wpm! She was the only one who could flip the switches fast enough, though I don't think they showed that as well as they might've.

Not having been a Who watcher for too long, I didn't get the "Bad Wolf" thing about Rose--I've only seen the Martha and Donna years consistently.

I liked it. Hubby knows that the dvds for the Rose/Martha/Donna seasons will be in the house in the near future.

 

[Nedersong]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

IAnd plus they've yet to reveal the higher power that was allgedly manipulating the Doctor to be in so that could be the focus of next season.

However, I am suspicious that all those deaths were for the sole purpose of putting the Doctor in the place he needed to be in throughout the entire season in order to save the multiverse.

They did reveal it - it was Dalek Caan manipulating time and space so that the Doctor and Donna would be together at the right time to end the Daleks (which is a bit of a joke considering Caan himself brought Davros back to create them!).

ETA - should have found out before but how does multi-quote work so I can stop double-replying?

That's why they should slow down on the dialogue.

Some people will miss important clues when people talk too fast.

OY!

 

[Chevron Guy]

Although I saw the episode a few weeks ago on YouTube, I watched it again last night. Excellent stuff, and that's coming from someone who's been only a tepid Who fan over the years. I'll have to watch more consistently in the future.

 

[Cutter John]

Although I saw the episode a few weeks ago on YouTube, I watched it again last night. Excellent stuff, and that's coming from someone who's been only a tepid Who fan over the years. I'll have to watch more consistently in the future.

D'oh! Which sucks, since the show is on hold for the next 18 months or so.

But at least you'll have plenty of time to catch up on what you've missed.

 

[David cgc]

IAnd plus they've yet to reveal the higher power that was allgedly manipulating the Doctor to be in so that could be the focus of next season.

However, I am suspicious that all those deaths were for the sole purpose of putting the Doctor in the place he needed to be in throughout the entire season in order to save the multiverse.

They did reveal it - it was Dalek Caan manipulating time and space so that the Doctor and Donna would be together at the right time to end the Daleks (which is a bit of a joke considering Caan himself brought Davros back to create them!).

But Caan probably began manipulating time and space after saving Davros.

I didn't get the sense that Caan was somehow all-powerful, but instead that he was just manipulating Davros psychologically. In fact, I'm not entirely sure how much of that he was doing, either, beyond leading Davros to believe that he was a perfect source of information and then neglecting to mention things like the fact that the TARDIS wasn't really destroyed.