Do you like the Discovery Klingon look?

[Dukhat]

This isn't new in Trek though. No one was going to describe the TNG/movie Klingons as Klingons without context coming in with only TOS background. Discovery's just doing what the franchise did before.

There's a bit of a difference for TMP, though. The first thing we see are the Klingon ships, and they look exactly like the ships from TOS, only much better detailed. That's pretty much a dead giveaway that the aliens we then see next are Klingons, despite the bony ridge going across the tops of their heads, and their uniforms, and without any swarthy makeup, and the fact that they are speaking in their own language (which are the only things differentiating them from the TOS Klingons.)

 

[fireproof78]

Could have been Romulan ships too.

 

[Yistaan]

There's a bit of a difference for TMP, though. The first thing we see are the Klingon ships, and they look exactly like the ships from TOS, only much better detailed. That's pretty much a dead giveaway that the aliens we then see next are Klingons, despite the bony ridge going across the tops of their heads, and their uniforms, and without any swarthy makeup, and the fact that they are speaking in their own language (which are the only things differentiating them from the TOS Klingons.)

I was fine with the new ships in Disco season 1. We could always use new starship designs. What I wasn't a fan of was them calling a new ship a D7, then bizarrely enough next season showing a hologram of the true D7 and saying this is the debut of the D7. Ok what?

 

[XCV330]

Could have been Romulan ships too.

As a young kid sitting in the theater when TMP first came out, I actually remember someone in the theater, might have been one of my folks, saying "Klingons" the minute the ship came on screen. It's funny the little details you remember. I couldn't tell you the name of the kid that sat beside me in class the next year but I recall that movie as it was a huge deal for our family to go see. I did not see Star Wars into maybe year or two later, 2nd run. My family was seriously into trek. So they knew what it was supposed to be.,

Anyway. I was extremely young, and though I'd watched the show from a toddler on, I had no idea what was going on. Probably fell asleep later on, but I do remember the opening excitement, the overture, which was rare then and the first 30 minutes. I think I got scared after the transporter accident and Vger zapping that comm station. I felt bad for the man in the space suit. That's about all I remember. Anyway, people knew it was a Klingon ship.

 

[Dukhat]

I was fine with the new ships in Disco season 1. We could always use new starship designs. What I wasn't a fan of was them calling a new ship a D7, then bizarrely enough next season showing a hologram of the true D7 and saying this is the debut of the D7. Ok what?

I thought the DSC Klingon ships were mostly meh, as if someone was given a job to design weird alien shapes without any kind of context that they were supposed to be Klingon ships. (I know that's not the case, but that's what it felt like to me.)

Could have been Romulan ships too.

That's what they should have used the TMP stock footage to represent in the Kobayashi Maru simulation in TWOK, since they referred to the Neutral Zone, something up until then was only a parlance of the Romulans.

 

[fireproof78]

As a young kid sitting in the theater when TMP first came out, I actually remember someone in the theater, might have been one of my folks, saying "Klingons" the minute the ship came on screen. It's funny the little details you remember. I couldn't tell you the name of the kid that sat beside me in class the next year but I recall that movie as it was a huge deal for our family to go see. I did not see Star Wars into maybe year or two later, 2nd run. My family was seriously into trek. So they knew what it was supposed to be.,

Anyway. I was extremely young, and though I'd watched the show from a toddler on, I had no idea what was going on. Probably fell asleep later on, but I do remember the opening excitement, the overture, which was rare then and the first 30 minutes. I think I got scared after the transporter accident and Vger zapping that comm station. I felt bad for the man in the space suit. That's about all I remember. Anyway, people knew it was a Klingon ship.

Interesting. My last episode that I watched before seeing TMP was "The Enterprise Incident" so the possibility was more open to me. So fascinating to see the different reactions.

But, as I have stated repeatedly, context is key in determining these things.

I was fine with the new ships in Disco season 1. We could always use new starship designs. What I wasn't a fan of was them calling a new ship a D7, then bizarrely enough next season showing a hologram of the true D7 and saying this is the debut of the D7. Ok what?

Intelligence SNAFUs are a real thing.

 

[jackoverfull]

I was fine with the new ships in Disco season 1. We could always use new starship designs. What I wasn't a fan of was them calling a new ship a D7, then bizarrely enough next season showing a hologram of the true D7 and saying this is the debut of the D7. Ok what?

yep. I really think there was a miscommunication with the VFX team here, the D7 in s2 was clearly fan service.

I thought the DSC Klingon ships were mostly meh, as if someone was given a job to design weird alien shapes without any kind of context that they were supposed to be Klingon ships. (I know that's not the case, but that's what it felt like to me.)

most of them are quite meh, but the BoP is pretty nice. Too bad there is NO clear shot of it in the series. Season 1 in particular seemed to go to extremes to avoid showing clear shots of the ships.

 

[Yistaan]

yep. I really think there was a miscommunication with the VFX team here, the D7 in s2 was clearly fan service.

most of them are quite meh, but the BoP is pretty nice. Too bad there is NO clear shot of it in the series. Season 1 in particular seemed to go to extremes to avoid showing clear shots of the ships.

Strangely enough the "What is a D7" argument is as old as the franchise, and apparently even Nimoy and Shatner got into it (jokingly) all those decades ago. From the D7 article at memory alpha:

I went to the stage one day, and they were all ready and waiting for me, because they knew I was really exhausted from some long rewrite sessions. As soon as I walked up to the set, Bill and Leonard blew a scene, but they blew it on purpose and began arguing very violently. Bill was shouting at the top of his voice, "Leonard! What do you mean saying this is a D-7 Klingon ship! It's a D-6!" Leonard shouted back, "No, you idiot, the D-6 has four doors over here and the D-7 only has two!" Bill immediately shouted back, "No, no, no – it's the other way around. You've got it all wrong."

While all of this is going on, I'm standing there, beginning to get frustrated, watching the minutes tick by and mentally counting the money we're losing in expensive crew time, because the cameras aren't rolling. And as the argument continued, I'm thinking to myself, "What are they talking about? They've gone too far!" Then I remembered thinking that I should remember which is the D-6 or the D-7. Finally I couldn't stand it any more, and so I walked in between them and said, "Come on, fellows, it really doesn't matter. Let's get on with the scene." Then the whole crew broke up laughing. This was their way of saying to me, "Hey, time is not that serious. Relax a little."

 

[fireproof78]

Strangely enough the "What is a D7" argument is as old as the franchise, and apparently even Nimoy and Shatner got into it (jokingly) all those decades ago. From the D7 article at memory alpha:

I went to the stage one day, and they were all ready and waiting for me, because they knew I was really exhausted from some long rewrite sessions. As soon as I walked up to the set, Bill and Leonard blew a scene, but they blew it on purpose and began arguing very violently. Bill was shouting at the top of his voice, "Leonard! What do you mean saying this is a D-7 Klingon ship! It's a D-6!" Leonard shouted back, "No, you idiot, the D-6 has four doors over here and the D-7 only has two!" Bill immediately shouted back, "No, no, no – it's the other way around. You've got it all wrong."

While all of this is going on, I'm standing there, beginning to get frustrated, watching the minutes tick by and mentally counting the money we're losing in expensive crew time, because the cameras aren't rolling. And as the argument continued, I'm thinking to myself, "What are they talking about? They've gone too far!" Then I remembered thinking that I should remember which is the D-6 or the D-7. Finally I couldn't stand it any more, and so I walked in between them and said, "Come on, fellows, it really doesn't matter. Let's get on with the scene." Then the whole crew broke up laughing. This was their way of saying to me, "Hey, time is not that serious. Relax a little."

Relaxing a little is sage advice.

Also, I love the new Klingon ships. Best looking Klingon ships ever put to screen.

 

[Tuskin38]

D-7 wasn't even in the script for whatever episode that was, it was part of the fake argument they were having. The label of D7 is never spoken on screen until DS9's Tribble episode.

 

[Dukhat]

Also, I love the new Klingon ships. Best looking Klingon ships ever put to screen.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Jadeb]

Here’s one thing I find odd about Discovery’s decision to rework the Klingons so dramatically: In the ‘70s, Star Wars had just changed everyone’s expectations for sci-fi, so Star Trek naturally followed suit. Trek also had the added burden of showing it wasn’t just a TV show — it needed to be big for the big screen, so the focus on sfx and bumpy-headed aliens made sense for the times. But today we live in the age of the expanded movie universe, when viewers expect consistency and world building across films and time. Yet Trek decides to disregard decades of design and world building ... I guess in a bid to draw new viewers? Even though they put the show on a niche pay streaming service, where the people most likely to watch were also the most likely to be upset? I don’t get what they were thinking.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I respectfully disagree.

I do like the cleave ship, but not the Sech class (what DSC, at first, mistakenly called a D7).

 

[XCV330]

Exhaustive hours of polling and research had shown that what viewers had wanted was an unlikable religiously fanatical species with an oblong head and two penises that liked to decorate their ships with dead bodies and totally didn't borrow that last bit from the Reavers on Firefly.

Fuller probably should have just made a new species for himself. The Kelpians ended up being interesting, enough, though I don't know how much work Fuller put into that one.

I do like the cleave ship, but not the Sech class (what DSC, at first, mistakenly called a D7).

I like the cleave ship too. At the velocities these ships fly at, ramming seems like as good an option as any, and it has been used before, so why not build a ship designed for it, like ancient triremes were.

 

[Yistaan]

Here’s one thing I find odd about Discovery’s decision to rework the Klingons so dramatically: In the ‘70s, Star Wars had just changed everyone’s expectations for sci-fi, so Star Trek naturally followed suit. Trek also had the added burden of showing it wasn’t just a TV show — it needed to be big for the big screen, so the focus on sfx and bumpy-headed aliens made sense for the times. But today we live in the age of the expanded movie universe, when viewers expect consistency and world building across films and time. Yet Trek decides to disregard decades of design and world building ... I guess in a bid to draw new viewers? Even though they put the show on a niche pay streaming service, where the people most likely to watch were also the most likely to be upset? I don’t get what they were thinking.

Well they wanted to associate the show with TOS and then also have modern production values, thus the bizarre inconsistency in design between TOS sets and Disco sets. Having made that decision, they might as well just change the Klingons too. It's not just the Klingons they did this too, even the Orions now have full facial masks.

 

[fireproof78]

Here’s one thing I find odd about Discovery’s decision to rework the Klingons so dramatically: In the ‘70s, Star Wars had just changed everyone’s expectations for sci-fi, so Star Trek naturally followed suit. Trek also had the added burden of showing it wasn’t just a TV show — it needed to be big for the big screen, so the focus on sfx and bumpy-headed aliens made sense for the times. But today we live in the age of the expanded movie universe, when viewers expect consistency and world building across films and time. Yet Trek decides to disregard decades of design and world building ... I guess in a bid to draw new viewers? Even though they put the show on a niche pay streaming service, where the people most likely to watch were also the most likely to be upset? I don’t get what they were thinking.

It was to update to current production values and making a bid to draw in newer viewers. Fuller wanted a full redesign, as well as an anthology series that explored multiple eras. But, he seemed to want Klingons to be more alien. So, he redid it and redid Starfleet vessels. Then, when he was fired, the production team as left with expsensive work and little time.

Star Trek is not going to do like Star Wars (never has, beyond going bigger) and it's not like other franchises. Now, they are learning the hard way of that potential value of world building and such but that is not a part of Trek's DNA. Updating for the times is absolutely in Trek's DNA. It isn't Star Wars, and it won't ever be.

 

[Fateor]

Here’s one thing I find odd about Discovery’s decision to rework the Klingons so dramatically: In the ‘70s, Star Wars had just changed everyone’s expectations for sci-fi, so Star Trek naturally followed suit. Trek also had the added burden of showing it wasn’t just a TV show — it needed to be big for the big screen, so the focus on sfx and bumpy-headed aliens made sense for the times. But today we live in the age of the expanded movie universe, when viewers expect consistency and world building across films and time. Yet Trek decides to disregard decades of design and world building ... I guess in a bid to draw new viewers? Even though they put the show on a niche pay streaming service, where the people most likely to watch were also the most likely to be upset? I don’t get what they were thinking.

You're over thinking things.

The real reason for the redesign is that the director wanted to put his own stamp on Star Trek.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

You're over thinking things.

The real reason for the redesign is that the director wanted to put his own stamp on Star Trek.

It wasn't the 'director' it was Bryan Fuller the shows creator. You know Bryan Fuller, the guy who worked on 90's trek?

 

[Yistaan]

It wasn't the 'director' it was Bryan Fuller the shows creator. You know Bryan Fuller, the guy who worked on 90's trek?

Not directly related to Fuller or Discovery, but I find that the argument "So and so worked on the greatest works on this franchise, so therefore their newer works that aren't as well received really are great" doesn't work on me anymore. After seeing what Lawrence Kasdan did in TFA and Solo (despite screenwriting the greatest SW films, ESB and ROTJ), some of Chris Claremont's later work in X-Men (despite being widely acknowledged as the best writer of the franchise), and the last Indy movie despite having Spielberg, Lucas, etc. all on board, sometimes these creators just can't recreate the hits they did before. Not their fault at all, but even the greatest don't bat 100% every time and I'm not sure that the assumption they can should be used as a point anymore in these types of discussions, honestly.

 

[fireproof78]

I took the comment to be "No, this wasn't some outsider who hated Star Trek and wanted to make their own mark" but someone who had worked on the "golden era" of Trek and was familiar with it. Not that Fuller was somehow more qualified to make Trek but not that he set out to be the "I care about Trek so I'll change whatever the I want."