• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Discovery is losing me in Season 3, anyone else?

Ometiklan

Captain
Captain
I have enjoyed Discovery through the first two seasons, and for the first 5 episodes of season 3 (through "Die Trying"), but I am finding myself disengaged from the season since then.

Anyone else finding themselves lost with Discovery season 3?
__________________________________________________________________________
Spoilers through "There Is a Tide..."

To go through all of my issues would take too much time and space, but I will hit on the main points:
The description of Discovery as a "bullet" has never seemed more apt. Discovery has always moved at a breakneck pace, but in between there were always character beats that kept the show alive and interesting for me. Now, more events than ever before are simply driven by the necessity of plot, the relentless churn of DRAMATIC PLOT EVENTS rather than any natural character growth. The emotional logic of the character bits have been lost.

Character motivations, evolutions, are again simply dictated by plot. Saru suddenly is compromised by not having seen another Kelpian for the last 6 months, after having lived his entire adult life never expecting to see another Kelpian. Mirror Georgiou is suddenly redeemed (apparently by being willing to only kill some people instead of all people, to remain in power) and beloved by the whole crew after having been Space Hitler, killing people left and right, being dismissive, mean, and treacherous to every single person around her for 2 years.

Lurching from storyline to storyline within individual episodes is creating a lot of tonal inconsistencies - some characters are engaged in relatively minor personal issues when space battles are happening literally simultaneously. For example, it's hard to care about both the interesting character stuff down on the planet in the Verubin Nebula at the same time as the Emerald Chain captures Discovery (for the record, the Discovery portion was boring).

The villains, Osyraa and the Emerald Chain are boing and one note - with mustache-twirlingly bad displays of how evil they really are, until suddenly - PLOT TWIST - they had some other motivations all along, but - PLOT TWIST 2 (5 minutes later) - they are really just as evil as they seemed all along, so don't bother. Did we need this weak-ass villain when we had a nice mystery of what was the Burn and what caused it? People working together to find common ground and a solution to a natural disaster or at least a path forward. I guess it could have been worse, the villain could have been out for revenge against the Federation for raising the costs of postage stamps or something.

Science and basic character/plot logic has never been a strong suit for Discovery, but this year they have just thrown it out the window. Booker pulls miraculous Emerald Chain comms tech out of nowhere (for no good reason too - Discovery could just jump there anytime it wants, who cares about long range comms? Apparently Vance does because somehow some comms technology is evil because bad guys use it.), Booker pulls sensor blocking tech from nowhere which is completely different from the sensor masking tech used in season 1; Burnham can't find an emergency med kit in all of Discovery nor can she find a weapon to use on the first guard she finds; she doesn't even use a Vulcan Nerve Pinch; she won't let Stamets jump Discovery to save Culber and Saru even though that would fix both the threat to the Federation HQ and save the lives of their crew at the same time; the Emerald Chain just beams onto Discovery despite it being "completely" upgraded with brand new 32nd century tech. And how does the Emerald Chain take over the whole ship with the Sphere Data still resident? Oh, the data just decided to download itself to three little cute robots. It just gets worse and worse each episode. And those issues that are addressed are just handwaved by single lines of dialog (e.g., how Book's ship made it on Discovery).

So, long story short - I am actively starting to dislike the direction of Discovery. The previously good stuff keeping it together for me are just not there anymore. It's a real disappointment for me as I felt the show got better from season 1 to 2 and into the start of 3 and I was hoping it would hit its stride like TNG/DS9/VOY, and even to a some degree, ENT did before. (The new Federation stuff and Vance and finding a place in the future is probably the best and most interesting stuff DSC season 3 has created, but it has been largely ignored.) But now it feels like it is going backward. I will keep watching and hoping it rights itself in season 4, but I don't have a lot of hope now. And this makes me worry that Picard won't redeem itself after the promising start but ultimately disappointingly similar issues it had in its season 1.

At least we still have the amazing Lower Decks, and the promise of SNW, Prodigy, and Picard season 2.
 
It's always been up and down for me. S1 was first odd, then interesting, then insane, then cool, then stupid. S2 was first exciting, then got even better, then kinda boring, then odd, then even more boring, with the occasional nice idea. S3 was first interesting, then boring, then great, then boring, and now I just find myself caring less and less, even though I want to.
 
While I don't like the last couple of episodes as much as the early parts of the season, Trek for me at least has never had a season that is consistent (in any quality level). But I will say without pushing into each detail the complaint that just really stuck out to me was not being able to find medical supplies. First your point implies she has free range of the ship to go anywhere, obviously while at first she can't be scanned, she can still be seen so you wouldn't travel to areas that you would normally expect people to be located (unless you absolutely had to). 2nd, in the 50 plus years of Trek with shows and films how often do crew persons who are injured find medical supplies outside of sickbay? Or happening to run into a medical officer so equipped with some basic supplies?
 
I liked the first 5 episodes, then Sanctuary came and I found that one boring. Episode 7 was great, but 8, 9 and 10 I didn't care for.

I did like episode 11.

12 was a bit meh and I expect 13 to be the same. Somehow, Discovery isn't very good at season finales...
 
I feel there's a spark missing from season 3 that 1 and 2 had. It isn't losing me, but I worry this is the start of the quality sacrificed for quantity we're likely to get from future Trekspam.
 
I think this season’s been perhaps the most consistent of any of them, but with the exception of the Terra Firma two-parter, it’s never quite reached the highs the first two seasons reached for me.

Then again, it’s never reached the lows those two seasons sometimes reached, either. Overall I’m happy, but there’s always room for improvement.
 
My wife and I are at the beginning of season 3. We find It ok so far, and putting It on a pauze for the moment.
First we are going to finish The X files season 11, and after that we maybe continue with Discovery.
 
In some ways, I find this season to be the best yet, but in other ways I find it to be very frustrating.

One thing I disagree with the OP on is I think the character writing has been the best yet this season. I actually concur regarding the weird inconsistencies in how the characters have been written which have cropped up in the last few episodes. That said, at least "character moments" exist. The first two seasons were extremely light on characterization - to the point that they seldom allowed characters other than Michael to even have conversations which weren't spitting technobabble or otherwise plot-critical information. Discovery seems less plot-focused and more character-focused now as a series, which is a welcome change.

I'd also say that the current season is much more consistent in terms of quality. I haven't seen any bad episodes really this time around, only some mediocre ones.

The issue with this season is basically that it relentlessly plays it safe, and doesn't really have any new, interesting, or creative ideas. I was led to believe the reason for the jump to the 32nd century was to allow for new storytelling possibilities which canon constrained. Yet we're seeing the same old stories, both in terms of structure (bring two warring factions to the table, deal with a failing holodeck, return to the Mirror Universe) and content (Orions, Andorians, Vulcans, etc.) Even the technology has seen essentially no advancement in terms of how it affects the setting, once you get past high-gloss visuals - a big disappointment because one flaw with the Trek setting is it's never been able to explore transhumanist ideas in SF, which the far future seemed a great palette for. Discovery is fine, but there's not really anything particularly creative behind the show any longer in terms of big ideas. It's just...there.

Oh, and it seems again the end of the season arc will be underwhelming, but that's been true through Discovery's whole run. It always seems to end the season as less than the sum of its parts for some reason. I don't know why long-form serialized storytelling continues to be something they struggle with. It seems most modern serialized dramas - if they have arc flaws - more have a limp first or second act, because they stretch out too little story over too long of a time. Discovery has the opposite issue where the seasons consistently lose steam in the back half.

Some people have suggested the issues this season are because Michelle Paradise does not have a lot of SF experience. There are some quotes from her saying everything is focused on the characters, and she mostly thinks about the SF aspect in terms of visual effects. But really I think the issue with Discovery is more basic: CBS got scared after two divisive seasons, and wanted something as uncontroversial as possible. Thus we essentially get the Discovery crew doing low-stakes, generic Trek, with the apparent season arc facing a B-to-C level antagonist. It's all...fine. But that's all it is. I've jokingly referred to DIS Season 3 as Voyager's 8th season, and I stand by the comment. Similar to Voyager, Discovery has turned its back on high concepts which could have alienated fans to give warmed-over TNG - Trek comfort food.
 
Last edited:
Anyone else finding themselves lost with Discovery season 3?

I struggled to stay with the show for its first two seasons, made it through three episodes of season three before bowing out. I finally realized I just don't care about these people or the plight. Which is unfortunate, because they have a really good set of actors, the writing is just cringeworthy most of the time.
 
But really I think the issue with Discovery is more basic: CBS got scared after two divisive seasons, and wanted something as uncontroversial as possible. Thus we essentially get the Discovery crew doing low-stakes, generic Trek, with the apparent season arc facing a B-to-C level antagonist. It's all...fine.

There is something to this. If you ask me, the DSC producers listen too much to the fans. Many fans don’t even know what they want, they just have this unconscious idea that everything should be a recreation of the Trek they grew up with (which seems to be TNG for a great many of the ardent DSC critics).

Season two demonstrated that the producers were trying to appease those who despised the new Klingons by backtracking on the redesign and writing them out of the story as much as possible. Because most the haters fixate on their hatred of Michael Burnham, the character has been rebooted a little both subsequent seasons. People wanted it to tie in more with TOS, so they wrote in Pike and Spock in S2. And to appease the constant accusations of continuity and canon violations, they moved the show ahead 1,000 years.

Every step of the way they’ve tried to appease the ‘fans’ and counter the criticisms they’ve faced. Last season said fans made it clear they hated the ‘big stakes’ nature of the story arc. This season they’ve scaled the nature of the threat back substantially...too substantially in my opinion. I’ve really not been feeling the dramatic urgency of the story arc. This runs the risk of boring the audience. I’m going to be honest—i rewatched TNG last year and for most of the latter seasons I was bored. Very little of consequence ever actually happened, and my lasting impression was that much of the series was a bit of a pointless plod. Entertainment being what it is these days, I don’t think you can get away with too much small scale storytelling. People expect grand stakes.

Frankly, trying to appease angry nerds is a thankless task. A lot of them are actively invested in hating the show anyway, and have been from before it even aired. No matter what the writers do, such people will find things to hate. I personally think the writers would be best to stay true to their own vision and just tell the best possible story they can, and be unafraid to push buttons and set noses out of joint (which will happen regardless). But that, alas, is not how the entertainment industry works. It is financed by investors and influenced by focus groups and they pay serious attention to whatever shit people are complaining about online. (Expect to see a huge reduction in emotionally based scenes next season!)

I’ve actually really enjoyed season 3, but I do feel it’s been watered down. After a strong start, it hasn’t engaged me as much as seasons one and two. And yes, I loved both of those. There must be something wrong with me, because I actually think that, aside for a few bumps, the first season may have been the strongest and is one of my favourite Trek seasons. I never really understood all the hate.
 
I’ve really not been feeling the dramatic urgency of the story arc.

That's because there is no story arc this season. Don't get me wrong, the story at least flows logically without any major plot holes (other than some inconsistent characterization). But there's no goal that lasts the entire season. Instead it's more like:

Episodes 1-2 - Reunite Burnham and the Discovery crew
Episodes 3-4 - Find the Federation
Episodes 5-11 - Find the cause of the Burn.
Episodes 12-13 - Defeat Osyraa.

Many people would argue the Burn is the season arc, but I have a hard time describing it as such because even in the mid-season when Michael's quest seems to be the arc, in most episodes it is absent aside from a single scene - often a single conversation. Only Unification 3, Scavengers, and Su'Kal had plots directly related to the Burn. It was simply not that important to the writers. And since it wasn't important to the writers, it wasn't important to the viewers either.

The only decent conclusion they could draw now was basically that the real season arc was always about rebuilding the Federation. Incidentally along the way the Discovery crew has impressed Earth, Trill, and Ni'Var, found a huge source of dilithium, and (will soon) knock back a major regional power on its heels. Hopefully they make this explicit.
 
That’s another point I forgot to make. A very vocal group of fans have been complaining that they want Trek to be more episodic, and that’s exactly what they’ve done this season. You could argue there are continuing threads rather than arcs. This feels like a regression to me. The streaming age really needs solid arcs to keep viewers hooked. I’m a little disheartened that the producers probably think they’re just giving the fans what they want. It’s not what all the fans want, and it may not be what the show needs. But, we will see. I’m optimistic for a tight season finale that will pull the season together cohesively.
 
The first season is my favorite. With the third season, I don't think they're doing season arcs anymore. I think they're doing a series arc with different episodes or groups of episodes pushing different aspects of it forward. Since their aim has changed, the way I judge how they're handing what they're going for changed with it.

I think Season 4 is effectively going to really be Season 3 Part II.

But it all depends on what happens with "That Hope Is You, Part 2". ;)
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments. I, for one, just needed to get some of these complaints off my mind and into the world to see if I was crazy.

Seems like there is a healthy range of opinions on this topic from "Discovery has always been shaky/bad", to "yeah, it's losing its way some", to "no, still going strong". It's good to hear that it is still working well for some fans.

That’s another point I forgot to make. A very vocal group of fans have been complaining that they want Trek to be more episodic, and that’s exactly what they’ve done this season. You could argue there are continuing threads rather than arcs. This feels like a regression to me. The streaming age really needs solid arcs to keep viewers hooked. I’m a little disheartened that the producers probably think they’re just giving the fans what they want. It’s not what all the fans want, and it may not be what the show needs. But, we will see. I’m optimistic for a tight season finale that will pull the season together cohesively.

Just to push back on a couple of points.
Yeah, the producers/writers/crew may be making changes that are in line with some fan wishes, but certainly not all fans. Also, I don't think we can rule out that they are also making changes because they, themselves, didn't like the way the earlier bits played or how they worked out. The Klingon makeup and dialog was cumbersome for the actors and detrimental to the storytelling, so it seems like they would want to improve that. And other parts of the story arcs also didn't work, so they made a lot of midseason corrections. Not to mention a lot of behind-the-scenes management and writing staff changes.

As for more episodic, I think they have made minor moves in that direction, but they still serialize storylines across multiple episodes/the whole season - in my opinion, both to the detriment of those overall storylines and to the flow/mood of the individual episodes in which the tiny story segments are rather suddenly dropped.

I just don't think the writers are good enough to turn out a solid serialized story when parsing things out to different writers (often brand-new Discover writers) over a whole season. And the production schedule doesn't allow for sufficient rewrites of earlier scripts to smoothly incorporate later developments and/or the producers/head writers aren't able to or simply aren't doing enough rewrites to bring the scripts into alignment overall.

And as for the season finale's chances of being cohesive - good luck with that. The "Q'ronos Superbomb Revolution Plot", and the "We're Isolated from All Help (*except for the Kelpians, Klingons, and Michael's Parents) to Fight Control (oh, we defeated Control...lets still go to the future anyway)" endings have been some of the weakest elements of previous seasons.
 
Season three has been a marked improvement for me overall. They still haven't quite managed an unqualified success - the mirror universe two parter was a real let down, but I've really enjoyed the better pacing, the lack of universe level jeopardy, and the focus on the impact of their choice to come to the future. Adira has been a good addition (although I wish they featured more after Die Trying) and Stamets and Culber have been nothing but a joy. The Emerald Chain are a good idea and I'm interested in the 31st Century landscape enough to want to learn more about it. I liked the step back from full serialisation and the reduction in the level of speechifying.

Downsides have been the melodrama (aka The Crying), Georgiou, and some of the silliness like first officer Tilly and the crew all staying together and going out on missions. Osira is annoyingly moustache twirling too, and not that strongly cast.

Overall, the season is my favourite of the three, with work still to do.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top