Yet we have "The Borg Queen". So somebody or something rose to the top, somehow.
How it became that way. ::Shrugs::
Ask the writers, but the end result, somebody or something won out and became the leader of "The Borg Collective".
Did the Borg Queen Neuter the Concept of the Borg?
- Thread starter Mr. Friscus
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How it became that way. ::Shrugs::
Ask the writers, but the end result, somebody or something won out and became the leader of "The Borg Collective".
By changing what the Borg were. Same thing happened to the Klingons.
I’ve always thought a Star Trek/ ALIEN cross-over is the best vehicle to replace one Queen with another.
Lowly Borg drones in their alcoves are the easiest prey face-huggers ever had.
The Borg Queen would have to run a program where anything that wasn’t a soul-less drone gets…excommunicated, we’ll say.
The Xenomorphs are routed—but the drone turn on her like the Daleks turned on Davros.
The last we see of her…is with the Lament Configuration of the puzzle box. (Hellraiser III ended in space right?)
Home at last.
So *that’s* where the new Pinhead came from…
Lowly Borg drones in their alcoves are the easiest prey face-huggers ever had.
The Borg Queen would have to run a program where anything that wasn’t a soul-less drone gets…excommunicated, we’ll say.
The Xenomorphs are routed—but the drone turn on her like the Daleks turned on Davros.
The last we see of her…is with the Lament Configuration of the puzzle box. (Hellraiser III ended in space right?)
Home at last.
So *that’s* where the new Pinhead came from…
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Well, given that the Borg cannot assimilate 8472, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Xenomorph DNA is also capable of defeating Borg nanoprobes.
But the Borg aren't human beings. When they are assimilated, they are stripped of their free will and humanity.
She does, when you have writers who have written themselves into a hole.
Which is why there should have been no more Borg episodes after Q Who. You cannot repeatedly encounter an unbeatable foe and continue the series.
Isn't that what the season two cliffhanger of Strange New Worlds was?
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Yeah. When we first meet the borg they are terrifying. Nothing but a souless species looking to consume technology nothing more nothing less. I love the first introduction of them because they couldn't be talked to or bargained with. They were just there to take. Later episodes,movies and series gave them a voice and it seemed like the borg queen was actually a weakness. Still a good enemy but definitely defeatable and not as unbeatable as Q lead Picard to think.
Very easy to defeat if Voyager is any indication.
Im not sure why they even needed picard. They kicked the enterprises D's butt at their first encounter. Why they needed picard as a spokesperson is ridiculous. They had the power to easily destroy starfleet and assimilate everyone. Actually using picard ultimately defeated them. The first episode when the crew of the enterprise met the borg was the most errue and terrifying meeting. I eas actually worried about the enterprise and starfleet. After that the species becamd less of a threat because they made so many bad decisions the first which was assimilating picard.
No, they became less of a threat because that was the only way to continue to bring them back, and bringing the Borg back after Q Who was their downfall. It seems that producers never know when to leave well enough alone.
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So, what would the Borg have been lol based solely on their first appearance in Q Who?
They seemed to only have been interested in the Enterprise technology. The impression is once they had assimilated that technology they would have left the Federation alone. They were completely uninterested in the crew.
Yet, on the other hand, Guinian was clear the Borg were extremely dangerous and that they had destroyed her homeworld.
GUINAN: My people encountered them a century ago. They destroyed our cities
[Bridge]
GUINAN [OC]: They scattered my people throughout the galaxy.
[Guinan's office]
GUINAN: They're called the Borg. Protect yourself, Captain, or they'll destroy you.
Later...
PICARD: What happened between your people and the Borg?
GUINAN: I wasn't there personally, but from what I'm told, they swarmed through our system. And when they left, there was little or nothing left of my people.
RIKER: Guinan, if they were that aggressive, why didn't the Borg attack? They could have but they didn't.
GUINAN: They don't do that individually. It's not their way. When they decide to come, they're going to come in force. They don't do anything piecemeal.
DATA: Then the initial encounter was solely for the purpose of gathering information.
GUINAN: Yes.
PICARD: How do we reason with them? Let them know that we are not a threat?
GUINAN: You don't. At least, I've never known anyone who did.
Later...
GUINAN: Q set a series of events into motion, bringing contact with the Borg much sooner than it should have come. Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them. Since they are aware of your existence.
How is this description different than what we saw in Best of Both Worlds (minus the Locutus bits)?
They seemed to only have been interested in the Enterprise technology. The impression is once they had assimilated that technology they would have left the Federation alone. They were completely uninterested in the crew.
Yet, on the other hand, Guinian was clear the Borg were extremely dangerous and that they had destroyed her homeworld.
GUINAN: My people encountered them a century ago. They destroyed our cities
[Bridge]
GUINAN [OC]: They scattered my people throughout the galaxy.
[Guinan's office]
GUINAN: They're called the Borg. Protect yourself, Captain, or they'll destroy you.
Later...
PICARD: What happened between your people and the Borg?
GUINAN: I wasn't there personally, but from what I'm told, they swarmed through our system. And when they left, there was little or nothing left of my people.
RIKER: Guinan, if they were that aggressive, why didn't the Borg attack? They could have but they didn't.
GUINAN: They don't do that individually. It's not their way. When they decide to come, they're going to come in force. They don't do anything piecemeal.
DATA: Then the initial encounter was solely for the purpose of gathering information.
GUINAN: Yes.
PICARD: How do we reason with them? Let them know that we are not a threat?
GUINAN: You don't. At least, I've never known anyone who did.
Later...
GUINAN: Q set a series of events into motion, bringing contact with the Borg much sooner than it should have come. Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them. Since they are aware of your existence.
How is this description different than what we saw in Best of Both Worlds (minus the Locutus bits)?
The Queen always made sense to me. When you throw in things like "hive mind" and the nature of the Borg in general it seems natural that they would have a Queen. Also, she said "I am Borg". The collective literally speaks through her as one mind. I think Voyager blurred that line by making more of a leader than the actual collective mind.
"I am the Borg" means something different than being an embodiment of the hive mind. Rather, it means the hive mind is an extension of her.
I never thought the Queen ruined the Borg. Fans complain that she fundamentally altered what made them threatening; but did she really? The Borg were already having conversations with the Federation through Locutus and Hugh, so the introduction of the Queen certainly didn't add anything unique on that front. In fact, Hugh humanized the Borg, and presented the possibility that they could be reasoned with. The Queen's presence thoroughly trounced that idea by revealing that they're controlled by an unremittingly belligerent and actively malicious person, who would never back down unless she—and the entire "civilization" she built around herself—was destroyed. (I'm only counting the prime timeline here.)
Did she make them weaker? No. The Borg were already defeated in their second appearance. Do you really think, Queen or no Queen, that they wouldn't be beaten again the next time they showed up? If Picard or Janeway weren't outwitting the Queen, they'd be outwitting the Collective. It makes no difference.
The Queen changed the Borg from a species with blue and orange morality into a definitive force of evil. The Collective wasn't formed from willing participants deciding that collectivism is a superior way of life; they were enslaved. The Borg are a race of slaves bound to a single evil person. She knows that her actions cause suffering, and she doesn't care. She enjoys it—she smirks, gloats, and laughs about it. Why anyone would find the evil cyborg zombie Borg less scary than placid generic doomsday Borg, I don't know. That criticism feels founded in nostalgia for a status quo that was never going to be upheld. Of course villains are going to feel unbeatable when they're first introduced. If they're going to be beatable—which, again, was an inevitability—at least they're still aesthetically, conceptually, and theatrically menacing.
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