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Did Soren complete his goal?

James89901

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Although Picard and Kirk came back to stop him, was the other Soren still in the Nexus? I've always wondered about that. Like it seems weird that the Nexus would allow for someone to be transported out of it once they're already in it just because another person in it wanted to make a change.

Who knows I guess haha.
 
Yes. Because "time has no meaning there" there is always some version of "Soran" in the Nexus. Just like there is another Kirk and Picard.

It's the "echo" concept Guinan tries to explain to Picard.






.....or not. Because like you said, "who I know I guess!"

:crazy: ;)
 
I’ve heard theories that Kirk is alive in the Nexus or whatever.

Boy, they sure clusterfucked that script.
 
I’ve heard theories that Kirk is alive in the Nexus or whatever.

Boy, they sure clusterfucked that script.

While I agree that the script leaves much to be desired....I actually think the Nexus is an absolutely fascinating science fiction concept. It wasn't explored nearly enough, but you could see some potential for really mind-bending hardcore sci-fi coming out of a concept like that.
 
I can agree with that.

Just like the campfire scenes in TFF: The execution left a lot to be desired.
 
While I agree that the script leaves much to be desired....I actually think the Nexus is an absolutely fascinating science fiction concept. It wasn't explored nearly enough, but you could see some potential for really mind-bending hardcore sci-fi coming out of a concept like that.

Why does generations get so many negative responses? Although there are a few plot holes sort of, I thought it was a cool movie. It got a little slow at the point where Picard beamed down to the surface and also at the amogosa station, but still... It did have imploding stars and enterprise D in a movie and fighting a bird of prey, and great Data moments. Also Kirk.
 
Her? That's a weird word to use to describe someone who has no gender.

(I'm just messing around again, ignore me.) :)
 
Yes. Because "time has no meaning there" there is always some version of "Soran" in the Nexus. Just like there is another Kirk and Picard.

It's the "echo" concept Guinan tries to explain to Picard.






.....or not. Because like you said, "who I know I guess!"

:crazy: ;)

If we want to make sense of the bad writing, I don't think that's the echo concept at all. I believe that because Guinan and the others were yanked from the nexus when they weren't fully in there, that caused the echo. Guinan's echo said she couldn't leave not because it was impossible, but because there was a version of her in the time period that Picard wanted to take her.

That sure implies that if she exited at a point in history that she did not exist, that would be ok. She would just not be able to help Picard.

So what happens if she did exit at a point where she existed? The only thing I can think of is that if that happens, you replace the version of you that's outside completely. Why do I think that? Because there were not two Picards.

I don't think the echo is relevant at all.

What is interesting, and poor writing, is the question on this thread? Did the version of Soran that made it to the nexus stay there? It's not 100 percent certain, since we don't know if the nexus is immune from changes to the timeline. The answer is maybe, though I lean no, based on GR rules of time travel.

The time traveler can often be immune/protected from changes in the timeline. We have seen that. For example, when McCoy saved Edith Keeler, the rest of the crew, including McCoy, was not wiped out. So when Picard and Kirk beat Soran, Picard's failure to enter the nexus in the first place did not negate anything. Picard and Kirk were the time travelers, so that's that. But in this scenario, Soran was not the time traveler. He was not immune from changes, so by that logic, he didn't get in there.

The only certainty is that during the second timeline, there was a version of Kirk in the nexus that never exited, just as equal and original to the one that died.

That version never met Picard.

If the nexus is immune to changes in the timeline, then there would be two Kirks (one that met Picard and one that didn't), two Sorans (the echo from the 23rd century and the one that beat Picard's ass), and one Picard in there at all points in history.
 
I also didn’t like how the fate of the galaxy came down to because Picard needed Kirk to beat up the school bully for him.
 
I also didn’t like how the fate of the galaxy came down to because Picard needed Kirk to beat up the school bully for him.

It was just the fate of one star system I thought. The Klingons didn't get the trilithium weapon, so no one else was at risk of that.
 
If we want to make sense of the bad writing, I don't think that's the echo concept at all. I believe that because Guinan and the others were yanked from the nexus when they weren't fully in there, that caused the echo. Guinan's echo said she couldn't leave not because it was impossible, but because there was a version of her in the time period that Picard wanted to take her.

That sure implies that if she exited at a point in history that she did not exist, that would be ok. She would just not be able to help Picard.

So what happens if she did exit at a point where she existed? The only thing I can think of is that if that happens, you replace the version of you that's outside completely. Why do I think that? Because there were not two Picards.

I don't think the echo is relevant at all.

I don't agree. If you take the idea of the Nexus literally, that it is a dimension where time has no meaning, once you are in there....you will always exist in there in some form. It's not a linear time domain. You'd always be accessible to anyone else entering that domain.
 
Soren never even went to the Nexus. That was Soran.

(C'mon, don't hate me!) ;)

Are you sure? She may be in there........

outcast-thumb.jpg
 
The other thing I didn’t like was that there were Klingon bad guys when, in the previous movie, we had made peace with the Klingons.
 
Why does generations get so many negative responses? Although there are a few plot holes sort of, I thought it was a cool movie. It got a little slow at the point where Picard beamed down to the surface and also at the amogosa station, but still... It did have imploding stars and enterprise D in a movie and fighting a bird of prey, and great Data moments. Also Kirk.

I don't dislike the film at all....I just acknowledge the script has some major holes.

I can like it while still recognizing that it's deeply flawed!

Hey- I'm the guy that loves Star Trek V....so I'm pretty tolerant!
 
I don't agree. If you take the idea of the Nexus literally, that it is a dimension where time has no meaning, once you are in there....you will always exist in there in some form. It's not a linear time domain. You'd always be accessible to anyone else entering that domain.
Yes, I've thought the same thing for a long time. Some version of Soran is safe and sound in the Nexus, enjoying time with his family or laying in a hammock on an El-Aurian beach or something.

The other thing I didn’t like was that there were Klingon bad guys when, in the previous movie, we had made peace with the Klingons.
Lursa and B'Etor were always antagonists in TNG, acting out of their own interests instead of in line with the Empire. GEN follows up on that, and finally brings some closure to their character/story arc.

Kor
 
I know.

Im just not sure GEN was the time and place to make Picard cry and involve Klingon antagonists.

I also wish the team up was more profound than Kirk beating up Soran because Soran kicked Picard’s ass.
 
And while we’re at it, why use time travel to return to the precise moment when you can effectively...be trapped under rocks?
 
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