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Could Star Trek V been saved?

tim0122

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Having just rewatched Star Trek V for the first time in a while, I found it not terrible. But it was a mess with a lot of ideas and characters thrown in for a movie that felt like an okay episode of the show.

But there ARE good and even cinematic ideas present. Do you think the premise and ideas present in Final Frontier could've been salvaged into a solid Trek film?
 
Probably not. After the years of Trek II, III, and IV, I've seldom been so let down leaving a theater than I was for Trek V.
 
Yes. I personally find the movie as-is to be almost good?

Could we have gotten a better film using only the components as filmed? Meh, you can always massage a film a little better but it'd still be mostly what it already is.

Could it be better if further developed before filming? (And used the budget more wisely) Absolutely yes.
 
I think with some improved VFX. the film would be massively improved. One day it will happen I am sure because there is money to be made and it could be done cheaply.

One thing with all the TOS movies is the lack of deleted scenes. I always wonder if more material exists, especially with V, because I think there are a lot of hard cuts in that film. If not, then I don't think there is much scope for re-cutting the film like there is for example with Nemesis. I'm not sure that there's much wrong with the pacing of the film, with today's technology, some wizardry to improve the ending would really lift things up.

V is like a brown paper bag movie for me. It's embarassing, but I kinda like it.
 
I think Shatner wanted to do a director's cut didn't he? I think it's a shame he was denied the opportunity. Particularly with TMP seeming to get about ten versions.

Also for me watching it as a non-TOS fan I always quite enjoyed it.
 
Interesting thought experiment.

-I think improving the FX would definitely help.

-The novelization did a not-bad job of explaining things in the film that I thought could have benefitted from a bit more explanation, such as just how the E-A and the BoP manage to penetrate the Great Barrier.

-What I have a lot of doubt about is whether there's any way to make the ending more palatable to me. The whole "Looking for God" element inherently discomfits me, and what we get in TFF, besides obviously not being God in any meaningful capacity, is a huge disappointment. Kirk asks the obvious questions, and I feel as though a more interesting villain would have been better prepared for something like this to happen instead of immediately throwing any notion of omnibenevolence out the window. Angel may have even handled this better, as at one point Our Heroes in that series find an evidently omnibenevolent entity, and it's primarily through lucky accidents that they're able to overcome it.

-My secondary doubts concern the ease with which Sybok's goon squad takes over the E-A. It's never a good look for Our Heroes when they lose control of their own ship (see also "Rascals", "And the Children Shall Lead"), and it's even worse that apparently all it takes is a five second mind meld with most of them to make them become Shiny Happy People. The novelization at least gives this a bit more nuance, but there's only so much it can do. That even Spock and McCoy are initially swayed, and that it takes Kirk being Special to turn the tide, sticks in my craw. I would have liked to see Kirk's Inner Pain, especially since there are so many things we've already seen over the life of the franchise that might qualify, but mostly I would have liked to have seen Sybok's followers given some nuance and better motivation, and I would have liked to have seen at least some of the rest of the E-A crew trying to push back against Sybok's takeover.

-My tertiary concern is that the E-A being sent on this mission in the first place, as shown, makes no sense, but if the E-A had been fully functional and/or fully crewed than I don't see how the takeover would have been realistic to begin with. ...heck, in a way, there's very little about this movie that couldn't be rebranded and redone as a non-Star Trek film. (PIC could have done a season of his merry band going looking for Sha Ka Ree easily enough, and probably could have done it better.)

I guess you could say my feelings are that what we see on screen at times made me feel as though they weren't even trying, and that it's possible it could have at least been elevated to a "they really tried" state?
 
Come to think of it, Scotty never gave in to Sybok, did he? He was pretty much always trying to help Kirk. Yes, he got sidelined briefly when he bonked himself on the head. But he never seemed to be controlled by Sybok.
 
Come to think of it, Scotty never gave in to Sybok, did he? He was pretty much always trying to help Kirk. Yes, he got sidelined briefly when he bonked himself on the head. But he never seemed to be controlled by Sybok.
Sybok probably just never got around to melding with him. Given everything else we see, that seems more likely than the idea that Sybok did meld with him and it didn't take.
 
Sybok probably just never got around to melding with him. Given everything else we see, that seems more likely than the idea that Sybok did meld with him and it didn't take.
That's probably true. However, Scotty has consistently been shown as intensely loyal to Kirk and one of his biggest defenders. I'd like to think he would have resisted and continued fighting for Kirk.
 
When even Spock and McCoy likely would have joined Sybok if Kirk hadn't snapped them out of it, I have a hard time believing Scotty would have fared any better...but it's a nice idea.
 
When even Spock and McCoy likely would have joined Sybok if Kirk hadn't snapped them out of it, I have a hard time believing Scotty would have fared any better...but it's a nice idea.
I don't think Spock would have joined Sybok. He is clearly disturbed by the experience of witnessing his birth*, but he tells Sybok that he has misunderstood him and that he has resolved his own issues. It seems clear to me that Sybok's voodoo didn't work on Spock. McCoy is a bit iffier.

* How in the world would Spock have memory of his own birth, or what Sarek said about him, let alone from a third person point of view? His birth being part of his pain makes absolutely no sense.
 
I'm in the camp that no amount of fantastic VFX would have saved this film. Because the fundamental flaws of it had nothing to do with the effects.

There were one or two good dramatic moments and one or two good character moments. But they were outnumbered by the ridiculous plot, bad acting and overall nonsensical idea that Spock had a previously unknown half-brother who happens to be this smiling, laughing, overacting buffoon who easily convinces Kirk's closest friends and crewmates to turn on him with the most paper-thin of reasons. It was very clear to me that deep down, Shatner's real intent with this movie was to make Kirk look strong and everyone else look weak. Kirk fighting off an entire army of rock men in a 'special edition' would only have added to his self-serving crap.
 
I'm in the camp that no amount of fantastic VFX would have saved this film. Because the fundamental flaws of it had nothing to do with the effects.

There were one or two good dramatic moments and one or two good character moments. But they were outnumbered by the ridiculous plot, bad acting and overall nonsensical idea that Spock had a previously unknown half-brother who happens to be this smiling, laughing, overacting buffoon who easily convinces Kirk's closest friends and crewmates to turn on him with the most paper-thin of reasons. It was very clear to me that deep down, Shatner's real intent with this movie was to make Kirk look strong and everyone else look weak. Kirk fighting off an entire army of rock men in a 'special edition' would only have added to his self-serving crap.
Yeah certainly ILM effects would have helped, but the plot is "they spend the film going to meet God but Kirk owns him with Facts and Logic." There's interesting ideas in the script but it really isn't interested in interrogating any of them.
 
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