Any chance we will see any Consitution Class Starships under Construction in the background in Trek 11 ? With the registry number NCC-1701 there must be a number of them yet to be built at that point in the tale. and yes i am still freaked about having shatner in my Town car a few months ago !
Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek 11
- Thread starter Bones1864
- Start date
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
^ "Town car"?
^ "Town car"?
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
The NCC-1701 ,U.S.S defiant maybe. the enterprise would have to be in service for about 7 to 8 years when trek 11 starts so a number of "Constitution Class Ships' would be in service. I would say at least 15 to 17 of them would be in service across the Federation.
The NCC-1701 ,U.S.S defiant maybe. the enterprise would have to be in service for about 7 to 8 years when trek 11 starts so a number of "Constitution Class Ships' would be in service. I would say at least 15 to 17 of them would be in service across the Federation.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
I thought that there where only 12? In the TOS timeframe anyway.
I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure that there where only 12.
[Edit]
Just checked, there where 12 others besides Enterprise, so 13.
Apparently there was a 14th that was destroyed before the start of the series.
[/Edit]
I thought that there where only 12? In the TOS timeframe anyway.
I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure that there where only 12.
[Edit]
Just checked, there where 12 others besides Enterprise, so 13.
Apparently there was a 14th that was destroyed before the start of the series.
[/Edit]
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
Kirk's line was that there were only twelve like her in the fleet.
I have my own personal interpretation of that... there could be MANY more Constitution-type ships, but there were only twelve that were refit as "explorers" and sent on beyond-the-border 5-year exploratory missions. The others (at that time at least) remained in the Cage/WNMHGB configuration, with crews of 200, and were primarily military-role ships (unlike the twelve, which were outfitted with the first replicators, with the freed-up storage space converted to the equivalent of an entire survey-type ship's facilities).
That's my personal take, but I think it works nicely with what we know. It explains the vast increase in crew from Pike to TOS (WNMHGB's crew size isn't established, is it?), and the "only twelve" line, and the five-year-mission, and all of that... it all fits, logically.
The five-year-mission was so named because all twelve were sent out at once, right before an election. Only the Enterprise came back completely intact, so just before the NEXT election (five or six years later?), politics resulted in the "per ship" insignia thing being replaced with the Enterprise insignia.
It's all about the election cycle...
Kirk's line was that there were only twelve like her in the fleet.
I have my own personal interpretation of that... there could be MANY more Constitution-type ships, but there were only twelve that were refit as "explorers" and sent on beyond-the-border 5-year exploratory missions. The others (at that time at least) remained in the Cage/WNMHGB configuration, with crews of 200, and were primarily military-role ships (unlike the twelve, which were outfitted with the first replicators, with the freed-up storage space converted to the equivalent of an entire survey-type ship's facilities).
That's my personal take, but I think it works nicely with what we know. It explains the vast increase in crew from Pike to TOS (WNMHGB's crew size isn't established, is it?), and the "only twelve" line, and the five-year-mission, and all of that... it all fits, logically.
The five-year-mission was so named because all twelve were sent out at once, right before an election. Only the Enterprise came back completely intact, so just before the NEXT election (five or six years later?), politics resulted in the "per ship" insignia thing being replaced with the Enterprise insignia.
It's all about the election cycle...
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
Even if there were only 12-13 ships at the time of "Tomorrow is Yesterday", literally, no close-sisters or anything...
...It would still probably mean that some 20-30 Constitutions were built originally. After all, during the mere 3-5 years of TOS, we saw at least three of them removed from Starfleet strength for good (Defiant, Constellation, Excalibur). If the class was about twenty years old at the time, we're talking about something like a dozen other losses before TOS at that rate!
Timo Saloniemi
Even if there were only 12-13 ships at the time of "Tomorrow is Yesterday", literally, no close-sisters or anything...
...It would still probably mean that some 20-30 Constitutions were built originally. After all, during the mere 3-5 years of TOS, we saw at least three of them removed from Starfleet strength for good (Defiant, Constellation, Excalibur). If the class was about twenty years old at the time, we're talking about something like a dozen other losses before TOS at that rate!
Timo Saloniemi
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
Your right, the list I was looking at on Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_class_starship_(Star_Trek)
had 14 names with 1 noted as destroyed before the series began.
The list includes the Constitution itself though, so if that was a test bed vessel, and not put into active service, or retired, then Kirk's "twelve like her in the fleet" line makes sense.
Your right, the list I was looking at on Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_class_starship_(Star_Trek)
had 14 names with 1 noted as destroyed before the series began.
The list includes the Constitution itself though, so if that was a test bed vessel, and not put into active service, or retired, then Kirk's "twelve like her in the fleet" line makes sense.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
^ Bear in mind, though, that it's only fanon that the first vessel was named Constitution. Keeping to strict canon this has yet to be confirmed on-screen (someone please correct me if I forget a reference). If you watch the Cage or Where No Man, it could easily be inferred, too, that the Enterprise was in fact the first of the line.
Maybe Trek XI will clear this little tidbit up (along with the Robert April question).
Cheers!
Alex
^ Bear in mind, though, that it's only fanon that the first vessel was named Constitution. Keeping to strict canon this has yet to be confirmed on-screen (someone please correct me if I forget a reference). If you watch the Cage or Where No Man, it could easily be inferred, too, that the Enterprise was in fact the first of the line.
Maybe Trek XI will clear this little tidbit up (along with the Robert April question).
Cheers!
Alex
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
Enterprise could certainly be the first of her line to join the fleet. If the Constitution was a testbed (like the NASA space shuttle Enterprise was), then it may have been a prototype only and never seen any active service.
That way the Constitution could have existed, and the Enterprise still be the first in the line.
Enterprise could certainly be the first of her line to join the fleet. If the Constitution was a testbed (like the NASA space shuttle Enterprise was), then it may have been a prototype only and never seen any active service.
That way the Constitution could have existed, and the Enterprise still be the first in the line.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
I'm pretty sure that The Naked Now mentions that Kirk's ship is Constitution class.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
This is a source of constant fan questioning.
The dedication plaque on the NCC-1701 identified it as "Starship Class". The plaque was never readible on screen and the phrase was never uttered. Therefore some fans reject this classification.
The Constitution Class was mentioned in The Naked Now for the first time. To confuse things, the picture was clearly of the refit, not the original that was in The Naked Time, so some folks reject this classification for the NCC-1701 but not the refit or the NCC-1701A.
During production of TMP, Andy Probert says that the production crew meant for the refit to be the Enterprise Class. This is backed up by the sign on the door of the simulator at the beginning of ST2. That says Enterprise Class.
Constitution Class is clearly visible on the blueprints in ST6. I don't know if it was ever used in dialog in a movie. We have Mike Okuda to thank for this designation. It has become the most widely used designation for the various versions of the NCC-1701.
This is a source of constant fan questioning.
The dedication plaque on the NCC-1701 identified it as "Starship Class". The plaque was never readible on screen and the phrase was never uttered. Therefore some fans reject this classification.
The Constitution Class was mentioned in The Naked Now for the first time. To confuse things, the picture was clearly of the refit, not the original that was in The Naked Time, so some folks reject this classification for the NCC-1701 but not the refit or the NCC-1701A.
During production of TMP, Andy Probert says that the production crew meant for the refit to be the Enterprise Class. This is backed up by the sign on the door of the simulator at the beginning of ST2. That says Enterprise Class.
Constitution Class is clearly visible on the blueprints in ST6. I don't know if it was ever used in dialog in a movie. We have Mike Okuda to thank for this designation. It has become the most widely used designation for the various versions of the NCC-1701.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
Yup, plus when Picard visited Scotty on the holo-Connie bridge in "Relics", he clearly recognized it as Constitution class. The TMP upgrade debate notwithstanding, the TOS variant was, without question, Constitution. I don't really get the whole "Starship Class" thing anyway.
Yup, plus when Picard visited Scotty on the holo-Connie bridge in "Relics", he clearly recognized it as Constitution class. The TMP upgrade debate notwithstanding, the TOS variant was, without question, Constitution. I don't really get the whole "Starship Class" thing anyway.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
The thing with "Starship class" isn't as obvious as it seems to everyone today.
See, back then, the term was SPACE SHIP. Every movie, every book, every novella, every radio play, every TV show... NOBODY used the term "Starship." I can't say with 100% certainty that Roddenberry and crew invented the term (SOMEONE may have used it before) but as far as I'm aware, nobody had ever used the term before.
Today, people say "starship" instead of "spaceship" virtually all of the time. But at the time of Trek, it was really a new word.
As such, it was entirely reasonable to think that this could be the name of a class. (The first ship might have been called the U.S.S. Starship???)
Since then, however, and in almost pure response to Star Trek, the term "starship" has become used to describe ANY faster-than-light vessel capable of going from one solar system to another. And I think we're all pretty comfortable with that... it's a REAL word, now, not just a fictional one (though, as far as any of us know, nobody on Earth has a real, working starship... do they?)
Now, I remember in "Bread and Circuses, Merrick describing Kirk's command. I'm paraphrasing here, from memory, by the way, but he basically said "My ship, it was just a spaceship... but his ship, it's a STARSHIP. You have no idea what it can do." In other words, according to Merrick, in TOS terms, the term "starship" is used to describe the really big, really powerful ships. (I.E, a runabout is NOT a "starship" even though it's FTL.) While I doubt we'd quibble about that in real life, in Trek terms it seems pretty clear.
In some of the Treknology fiction that was published back in the 1970s and 1980s, it was established that the big "ships of the line" were referred to as "Class I Starships" and the smaller, specialized vessels (like Grissom) were "Class II Spaceships." Personally, I really like that approach.
So, the original Constitution class ship fell into a "superclass" of Starships... and since there weren't a lot of actual starships (by the above definition) at that point, it was noteworthy enough to put on the plaque.
Probably the Constitutions were the first ships not to just be called spaceships. In fact, I seem to recall Pike referring to the Enterprise as a "spaceship," didn't he? So, I'll even go a step further...
I've always liked the idea that there were quite a few Constitution-class ships, all of which were "spaceships" with crews of ~200 originally. But that, with the advent of replicator technology (food slots and fabricators in TOS parlance), the ships didn't require as much cargo space, so much of the storage area was converted to habitable space. As a result, the refit Constitutions (refit for TOS, I mean) took on enough extra facilities and crew to make up a full Survey spaceship's capabilities.
At that point, some P.R.-oriented Starfleet Admiral coined the term "starship" to describe those ships that were not just "warships" or "science ships" or whatever. These twelve refit Constitution-class ships were the first STARSHIPS for that reason.
I know, it's pure speculation... but does anyone think that it doesn't fit with any of the facts we know, or with any "real life" concerns? If so, let's hear your arguments.
The thing with "Starship class" isn't as obvious as it seems to everyone today.
See, back then, the term was SPACE SHIP. Every movie, every book, every novella, every radio play, every TV show... NOBODY used the term "Starship." I can't say with 100% certainty that Roddenberry and crew invented the term (SOMEONE may have used it before) but as far as I'm aware, nobody had ever used the term before.
Today, people say "starship" instead of "spaceship" virtually all of the time. But at the time of Trek, it was really a new word.
As such, it was entirely reasonable to think that this could be the name of a class. (The first ship might have been called the U.S.S. Starship???)
Since then, however, and in almost pure response to Star Trek, the term "starship" has become used to describe ANY faster-than-light vessel capable of going from one solar system to another. And I think we're all pretty comfortable with that... it's a REAL word, now, not just a fictional one (though, as far as any of us know, nobody on Earth has a real, working starship... do they?)
Now, I remember in "Bread and Circuses, Merrick describing Kirk's command. I'm paraphrasing here, from memory, by the way, but he basically said "My ship, it was just a spaceship... but his ship, it's a STARSHIP. You have no idea what it can do." In other words, according to Merrick, in TOS terms, the term "starship" is used to describe the really big, really powerful ships. (I.E, a runabout is NOT a "starship" even though it's FTL.) While I doubt we'd quibble about that in real life, in Trek terms it seems pretty clear.
In some of the Treknology fiction that was published back in the 1970s and 1980s, it was established that the big "ships of the line" were referred to as "Class I Starships" and the smaller, specialized vessels (like Grissom) were "Class II Spaceships." Personally, I really like that approach.
So, the original Constitution class ship fell into a "superclass" of Starships... and since there weren't a lot of actual starships (by the above definition) at that point, it was noteworthy enough to put on the plaque.
Probably the Constitutions were the first ships not to just be called spaceships. In fact, I seem to recall Pike referring to the Enterprise as a "spaceship," didn't he? So, I'll even go a step further...
I've always liked the idea that there were quite a few Constitution-class ships, all of which were "spaceships" with crews of ~200 originally. But that, with the advent of replicator technology (food slots and fabricators in TOS parlance), the ships didn't require as much cargo space, so much of the storage area was converted to habitable space. As a result, the refit Constitutions (refit for TOS, I mean) took on enough extra facilities and crew to make up a full Survey spaceship's capabilities.
At that point, some P.R.-oriented Starfleet Admiral coined the term "starship" to describe those ships that were not just "warships" or "science ships" or whatever. These twelve refit Constitution-class ships were the first STARSHIPS for that reason.
I know, it's pure speculation... but does anyone think that it doesn't fit with any of the facts we know, or with any "real life" concerns? If so, let's hear your arguments.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
i know i had come across the term in sf even before starship troopers.
i looked it up and found this.
i was thinking i had seen the term used in the " before golden age " collection.
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=starship
hmm looking through some stuff poul anderson used it in the about 1950 but i might pull down some early stuff.
hmm'
StarShip Invincible from 1935 astounding.
as for the 12...
i like the idea of some of the ships being kept at the crew size of pike's eneterprise and their being given a different classification,.
but considering how often starfleet lost them for a period of time they may have kept some under construction so that on average there were 12 in service at a time.
i know i had come across the term in sf even before starship troopers.
i looked it up and found this.
i was thinking i had seen the term used in the " before golden age " collection.
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=starship
hmm looking through some stuff poul anderson used it in the about 1950 but i might pull down some early stuff.
hmm'
StarShip Invincible from 1935 astounding.
as for the 12...
i like the idea of some of the ships being kept at the crew size of pike's eneterprise and their being given a different classification,.
but considering how often starfleet lost them for a period of time they may have kept some under construction so that on average there were 12 in service at a time.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
The meaning between a Starship and a spaceship.
Starship: A spacecraft either man or unman. That travel faster then the speed of light.
Spaceship: A spacecraft either man or unman. That is limit to the speed below the speed of light.
The meaning between a Starship and a spaceship.
Starship: A spacecraft either man or unman. That travel faster then the speed of light.
Spaceship: A spacecraft either man or unman. That is limit to the speed below the speed of light.
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
Forgive me if this was mentioned and I missed it...
'Constitution Class' from Scotty's technical journal (seen in Tribbles & possibly Space Seed)
close-up
Memory Alpha
Trekplace (scroll down)
Forgive me if this was mentioned and I missed it...
'Constitution Class' from Scotty's technical journal (seen in Tribbles & possibly Space Seed)
close-up
Memory Alpha
Trekplace (scroll down)
Re: Constitution Class Starships under Conmstruction in Trek
Okay, obviously the term "Starship" had seem some use previously. I'd still argue that it was not in COMMON use at that point, but clearly it had been used and was somewhat famililar, at least to the sci-fi community.
I'd never quite known where that phaser schematic had come from... ya learn something new every day.
I also never understood why Greg Jein was so insistent on renumbering the Constitution-class ships away from the 1700+ scheme (except for the refit Constellation and, arguably, the Republic). That little treatise pretty fully explains it... he had his own paradigm ... an assumption that the numbers on that chart HAD to be Constitution-class ships (which, to me, is totally nonsensical - it's no stretch whatsoever to conclude that the numbers on the chart MIGHT have been ships of other classes!) But Jein got an "official" Trek gig and as a result was able to make this happen, it seems. Since it's all fantasy anyway, I still stick with the F.J. numbering system (which was in broad popular use 'til TNG officially "renumbered" the Constitutions to fit what obviously was Jein's personal preference).
Just goes to show ya... anyone who get into a position of influence can redefine it all. Hmmm... so if some of the folks here were involved in the production, we actually might get reference to Spock's forked... well, you get the idea.
This sort of thing is a big part of why I come here... I'm the most "treknically knowledgable" person I know in "real life" by a long shot, but around here, I can learn new stuff sometimes!
Okay, obviously the term "Starship" had seem some use previously. I'd still argue that it was not in COMMON use at that point, but clearly it had been used and was somewhat famililar, at least to the sci-fi community.
I'd never quite known where that phaser schematic had come from... ya learn something new every day.
I also never understood why Greg Jein was so insistent on renumbering the Constitution-class ships away from the 1700+ scheme (except for the refit Constellation and, arguably, the Republic). That little treatise pretty fully explains it... he had his own paradigm ... an assumption that the numbers on that chart HAD to be Constitution-class ships (which, to me, is totally nonsensical - it's no stretch whatsoever to conclude that the numbers on the chart MIGHT have been ships of other classes!) But Jein got an "official" Trek gig and as a result was able to make this happen, it seems. Since it's all fantasy anyway, I still stick with the F.J. numbering system (which was in broad popular use 'til TNG officially "renumbered" the Constitutions to fit what obviously was Jein's personal preference).
Just goes to show ya... anyone who get into a position of influence can redefine it all. Hmmm... so if some of the folks here were involved in the production, we actually might get reference to Spock's forked... well, you get the idea.
This sort of thing is a big part of why I come here... I'm the most "treknically knowledgable" person I know in "real life" by a long shot, but around here, I can learn new stuff sometimes!
