Thieves was seperated from those living below the middle class you just included them with your list. The thing is you can't see that you're just using stereotypes, Tom Baker comes a working class backround just as Eccleston does but because Eccleston has a Saltford accent instead of a Livepool accent you only see Eccleston's Doctor as somehow being part of the working class. But wwe know he grew up in a house and spent plenty of the Master's father's estate.
Christopher Eccleston's Reason for leaving
- Thread starter Bob The Skutter
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Thieves was seperated from those living below the middle class you just included them with your list. The thing is you can't see that you're just using stereotypes, Tom Baker comes a working class backround just as Eccleston does but because Eccleston has a Saltford accent instead of a Livepool accent you only see Eccleston's Doctor as somehow being part of the working class. But wwe know he grew up in a house and spent plenty of the Master's father's estate.
So Lady Christina DeSouza being a thief makes her part of the working class?
How would that definition include someone who's from inherited money? She's clearly not living below the middle class.
Thieves was seperated from those living below the middle class you just included them with your list.
Um, no, I was saying that there are both thieves and honest people within the working class.
ETA:
Oh, I think I see what happened there. When I wrote, "I'm not sure what definition of "working class" others using, but the one I'm familiar with uses it as a euphemism for "poor people" and everyone else living below the middle class, thieves and honest men both included," you thought that I was engaging in a list that did not use the Oxford comma. Is that right?
Anyway, I wasn't engaging in a list, and I always use the Oxford comma. The thought could have been rendered as, "I'm not sure what definition of "working class" others using, but the one I'm familiar with uses it as a euphemism for "poor people" and everyone else living below the middle class -- thieves and honest men both included." That would probably be more clear.
END EDIT
And... what stereotype am I imposing on Eccleston's Doctor? Part of my point was that I liked his working-class vibe because it contradicted the stereotype that people from the working class are less intelligent or less heroic than people form the middle or upper classes.
I honestly don't have any particular opinion on Baker's Doctor, because I haven't seen enough to have much of an opinion on him. When I talk about Eccleston's working-class vibe, I'm comparing him to Tennant and Smith. NuWho only. DW TOS, as ever, is irrelevant to me.
We also know from "The Empty Child" he was the only child left out in the cold, shut out of a house.
ETA 2:
Why? Poor people are poor, whether or not they're asshats, and they exist as a class. There needs to be a term to refer to all of us, not just those who are decent. Or would you say that Bernie Madoff and fraudulently foreclosing bankers shouldn't be included in the term "upper class," too? Every class has its criminals and degenerates; it's unrealistic to try to separate them from the rest of their socioeconomic class.
I'm assuming that this is in response to my "When did I say I ruled out an upper class origin for the Doctor?" question.
DWF, saying that nothing about the Doctor's history requires him to be from the upper class is not the same thing as ruling it out. I did not say he is definitively not from the upper class, I said his history doesn't require it. That's all.
Babelcolour on YouTube used to have a fairly extensive video of clips of the Doctor talking about his history, from throughout DW TOS and nuWho. I relied on that and on the Wikipedia article as my cliff notes when I was first getting into Doctor Who.
I'd tend to think that if the Doctor were working class, he'd still end up demonstrating so much intelligence and potential and ability that he'd end up being allowed into the Time Lord Academy in spite of his status as a member of an oppressed class.
NuWho has made it very clear over and over again that the Doctor's species is called the Time Lords, not the Gallifreyans, as recently as "The Beast Below."
"So why do you look Human?"
"I don't. You look Time Lord. We were here first."
And upper class children are abandoned from their homes and left out in the cold?
Besides, it depends on what he means by "nursery." I've heard that term used to refer to any common area used by children, irrelevant of their ages. (For instance, in the film The Queen, Helen Mirren's title character refers to a common area in Balmoral Castle as being a "nursery" in spite of her grandsons being middle school-aged.)
We have no idea how long the Doctor was left outside and seeing as how he did run away from home in the winter his parents might've found it fitting. And you've limited your infomation on Gallifrey to only thte new series wherre they've been mentioned. And unless you have some influence you aren't going to get your kids into high education so I don't they just let the Doctor by in the Academy.
I don't think we know enough about Gallifreyan class dynamics to base a compelling argument off anything here other than class prejudice (only the upper class can receive a good education) or social liberalism (anyone can do anything). And it has crap all to do with the original topic anyway.
Well there was Drax from the "Armageddon Factor". He's the only Time Lord i know (outside of Eric Robert's Master and the 9th Doctor) that didn't have a "posh/upper class" accent. Also there must be some form of class dynamic since we have these people running around in silly collars and everybody else.
Drax picked up that accent after a stint in prison it's not his real accent. But then the seventh Doctor had a Scottish accent too.
Not really. You can't be sure of anything. It's entirely possible that the Ninth Doctor's accent was the First Doctor's original accent, and that he then worked hard to lose that Salford accent after being accepted to the Time Lord Academy -- only to revert back to it after the trauma of ending the Time War. Wouldn't be the first time people have deliberately changed their accents.
On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the First Doctor's canonical accent was his natural one. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the Doctor was originally born with a Jamaican accent for all we know! There's just no information.
Not really. You can't be sure of anything. It's entirely possible that the Ninth Doctor's accent was the First Doctor's original accent, and that he then worked hard to lose that Salford accent after being accepted to the Time Lord Academy -- only to revert back to it after the trauma of ending the Time War. Wouldn't be the first time people have deliberately changed their accents.
On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the First Doctor's canonical accent was his natural one. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the Doctor was originally born with a Jamaican accent for all we know! There's just no information.
You're going to hurt something by doing all that stretching.
Not really. You can't be sure of anything. It's entirely possible that the Ninth Doctor's accent was the First Doctor's original accent, and that he then worked hard to lose that Salford accent after being accepted to the Time Lord Academy -- only to revert back to it after the trauma of ending the Time War. Wouldn't be the first time people have deliberately changed their accents.
On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the First Doctor's canonical accent was his natural one. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the Doctor was originally born with a Jamaican accent for all we know! There's just no information.
You're going to hurt something by doing all that stretching.
Edit:
I know. It's just awful when other people interpret stories differently than you do, isn't it?
Not really. You can't be sure of anything. It's entirely possible that the Ninth Doctor's accent was the First Doctor's original accent, and that he then worked hard to lose that Salford accent after being accepted to the Time Lord Academy -- only to revert back to it after the trauma of ending the Time War. Wouldn't be the first time people have deliberately changed their accents.
On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the First Doctor's canonical accent was his natural one. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that the Doctor was originally born with a Jamaican accent for all we know! There's just no information.
You're going to hurt something by doing all that stretching.
Edit:
I know. It's just awful when other people interpret stories differently than you do, isn't it?
It's not a story and you couldd say the same thing about the seventh Doctor's Scottish accent or the third Doctor's lisp.
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