"Yesteryear" and "The Counter-clock Incident".
BEST OF TAS
- Thread starter TheLonelySquire
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"Yesteryear" and "The Counter-clock Incident".
I was wondering when you were gonna show up. 
Well, obviously "The Time Trap" is high on my list, mostly because it has such a diversity of sets, ships and characters. But my #1 is probably "The Magicks of Megas-Tu," if only because I admire its 'subversive' theme that still managed to get broadcast to innocent kiddies on Saturday mornings :thumbsup:.
Others in my top V:
III. "Beyond the Farthest Star"
IV. "Yesteryear"
V. "The Jihad"
Most of the episodes weren't bad at all, especially for being limited animation and only 1/2 hour long - the stories hold up pretty well. And it's great to see Kail continuing the tradition
.
Others in my top V:
III. "Beyond the Farthest Star"
IV. "Yesteryear"
V. "The Jihad"
Most of the episodes weren't bad at all, especially for being limited animation and only 1/2 hour long - the stories hold up pretty well. And it's great to see Kail continuing the tradition
.
Looking after my daughter for the day gives me a perfect excuse to check out the rest of the DVD set.
Its great to see the crew again in what is pretty much a fourth season of TOS. And its damnable that its not canon. Not something that will take away from viewing pleasure, but I'd like to see Roddenberry's last stab, for hates sake, turned around with a cameo in the new film.
Its great to see the crew again in what is pretty much a fourth season of TOS. And its damnable that its not canon. Not something that will take away from viewing pleasure, but I'd like to see Roddenberry's last stab, for hates sake, turned around with a cameo in the new film.
I think TAS has been made canon, via the camel's-nose-under-the-tent approach, i.e., a little bit at a time until the whole thing is in.
I'm more curious about this infamous memo that supposedly decanonized TAS in the first place. I agree with Therin, the whole thing was most likely due to the legal mishmash with Filmation shutting down, with Larry Niven's bit thrown in for extra angst. And Roddenberry was never one to admit to something like this (like the reason the network didn't like the character of Number One wasn't because of sexism but because Roddenberry had cast his girlfriend in the role) so he dresses it up in a big ol' decree from Mount Olympus and banishes the poor show to the netherworld of novels and fanzines, totally ingoring the sniggling detail that, although animated, meets the criteria of all the other shows and movies for inclusion into the official canon. It was written and produced by established Star Trek writers, the parts were played by the original cast in their original roles, and aired on NBC for quite a while, even nabbed an Emmy award in the process.
I think the DVD release, and the affirmative commentary included therein, should settle the matter, TAS is now canon.
I'm more curious about this infamous memo that supposedly decanonized TAS in the first place. I agree with Therin, the whole thing was most likely due to the legal mishmash with Filmation shutting down, with Larry Niven's bit thrown in for extra angst. And Roddenberry was never one to admit to something like this (like the reason the network didn't like the character of Number One wasn't because of sexism but because Roddenberry had cast his girlfriend in the role) so he dresses it up in a big ol' decree from Mount Olympus and banishes the poor show to the netherworld of novels and fanzines, totally ingoring the sniggling detail that, although animated, meets the criteria of all the other shows and movies for inclusion into the official canon. It was written and produced by established Star Trek writers, the parts were played by the original cast in their original roles, and aired on NBC for quite a while, even nabbed an Emmy award in the process.
I think the DVD release, and the affirmative commentary included therein, should settle the matter, TAS is now canon.
I caught some more episodes, "One of our Planets is Missing" and "The Jihad".
OOOPIM ( ) is a hoot and not entirely a rip off of "The Immunity Syndrome", even when Spock remarks that the cloud is somewhat like an amoeba. There's a nice touch absent from TIM though. The communications between Kirk and the planet about to be annihilated by the cloud and its desperate attempts to send their children to safety are more moving than Spock's telepathic communications with the dying Vulcan science vessel. And what do you know, they take on the beastie not with their weapons, but by talking to it.
"The Jihad" is interesting too, there was the potential for a slightly more nuanced villain than most others in Trek. It would have been nice to see more of the avian species and its history and religion, but then such is the running time of TAS episodes.
OOOPIM (
) is a hoot and not entirely a rip off of "The Immunity Syndrome", even when Spock remarks that the cloud is somewhat like an amoeba. There's a nice touch absent from TIM though. The communications between Kirk and the planet about to be annihilated by the cloud and its desperate attempts to send their children to safety are more moving than Spock's telepathic communications with the dying Vulcan science vessel. And what do you know, they take on the beastie not with their weapons, but by talking to it."The Jihad" is interesting too, there was the potential for a slightly more nuanced villain than most others in Trek. It would have been nice to see more of the avian species and its history and religion, but then such is the running time of TAS episodes.
No, I don't think so. Roddenberry was very protective of ST, and when something fell below his standards, he preferred to regard it as apocryphal. When he got the budget and technology to give Klingons a more alien look in the movies, he just pretended they'd always been that way and asked viewers to ignore their humanlike look from the series. He was on record as saying he considered ST V and much of ST VI apocryphal. And in the TNG years, he was known to express the opinion that he considered parts of TOS itself to be non-canonical, because they didn't live up to his standards of quality or credibility.
Now, TAS was produced with little involvement from Roddenberry, it was relatively crudely made, and its stories were often extremely fanciful. It's understandable that he wouldn't have felt it lived up to his increasingly narrow standards of what was "right" for ST.
Not really -- because there is nobody with the authority to make that decision. Contrary to fan mythology, "canon" is not something handed down from on high by some nebulous authority at Paramount or CBS or the federal government or Mt. Sinai or whatever. It's a creative choice exercised by whoever is producing new ST at the time. When Roddenberry was in charge, he defined canon. After he died, other people did, and his decisions only remained "binding" by habit or convention rather than any real authority. So technically, TAS hasn't been "banned from canon" since 1991. But there is no definitive answer to the question of whether it's counted as canon, because that depends on the opinions and preferences of whoever's making new Trek. At the moment, that's JJ Abrams & co. But the question of whether TAS "really happened" probably isn't relevant to what they're doing with the movie, so it's not likely to come up.
But nobody but Roddenberry has ever tried to exclude TAS from canon, so I'd say it's a non-issue. TAS isn't "officially" canon, because canon is opinion and creative choice, not a binding law handed down from on high. (And that's all the commentary on the DVD is -- somebody's opinion.) But it isn't "officially" not canon either. It's available for any creator of new Trek to reference or borrow from as they see fit.
The Squire of Gothos said:
OOOPIM (
I never thought of it as being derivative of "The Immunity Syndrome." On the contrary, I've long felt that ST:TMP was highly derivative of it. In both stories, a vast cloud-intelligence is heading toward an inhabited planet to destroy it, the Enterprise travels through it to its core, Spock mind-melds with its brain center, and they convince it that the tiny mites inhabiting the planet are sentient beings. And Alan Dean Foster, who novelized TAS, wrote the story that become TMP.
At least, that's what I used to think. Having since read Foster's original outline, I see it bears a lot less resemblance to OOOPIM than the final film does. So I guess it was a coincidence.
I'm sure I have a copy of it somewhere - in an issue of "Data Entries", a little fanzine that Melody Rondeau used to put out in the first few seasons of TNG? It was also printed in full on the old pre-Internet GEnie, and is quoted, in part, in Issue #1 of DC Comics' TOS Series II. I've also had several discussions with Richard Arnold about "that memo", and he supposedly wrote it on Gene R's behalf.
Gene was proud of TAS; some people mistake its removal from canon as a criticism of it. TAS won several awards and I even read an interview once, compiled during the making of "Phase II" or ST:TMP, where GR joked that he was trying to convince Majel Barrett to take a dual role in "the movie": as Chapel and M'Ress, but Majel nixed that idea of getting put into Caitian makeup for a cameo. But, as I said, when GR and the lawyers were striving to distance Fontana and Gerrold from creative input into TNG for the court case, TAS seemed to get caught up in the shuffle.
Larry Niven was also trying to launch the "Man-Kzin Wars" anthologies, and was trying to sell the rights to a RPG about "Ringworld", when Filmation was being disbanded, but he'd already had little success removing the kzinti from the semi-licensed "Star Fleet Battles" war game. You can see why the Paramount lawyers saw supposedly little ol' insignificant TAS as a tie-in nightmare, at least in 1989.
I also once saw a media-release blurb for Pocket's novel "The Captain's Honor", which mentioned kzinti instead of the M'dok Hegemony, another antagonistic felinoid race, which a quick revision made it into before publication.
Sorry, but that just total BS. GR felt screwed by NBC; so post season two, GR only cared about what he could do to continue to make a buck off of Star Trek. This is proven by the fact that he SOLD the his entire interest and rights to the 'Star Trek' series to Paramount. This is why he was able to be fired from Star Trek: TMP (he was listed as a consultant only beause Paramont was worried about him stirring up the fanbase to hate the film; and remember that Star Trek:TMP was the MOST EXPENSIVE film made to date in 1979. He was always upset he never had much control over the TOS feature film series either, which is why he since openly stated he didn't like the 'more military' turn of TWoK; and hated the destruction of the 1701 in TSFS.
But to say GR 'cared' about the 'quality' or 'standards' of Star Trek past season 2 (when he decided to quit and hand production over to Fred Frieberger) jut shows that you've bought the overblown hype of 'GR's Vision' and the rest.
If anything, it was because he felt he did get enough from TAS (profit-wise); and he was also a bit upset that he'd sold the Star Trek' series rights to Paramount, as they were making a mint; and he was seeing very little of that action until Star Trek:TNG came around; and he wanted 'fans' to embrace that more and essentially forget TOS - because with TNG, he now had a piece of the merchadising pie. Remember that he PLANNED and wanted to totally redo some of the original TOS scripts as TNG scripts; and it was his idea to start off the series (after the pilot aired) with The Naked Now.
The fan reaction to The Naked Now caused him to abandon the idea of redoing a classic TOS episode here and there; and I'm also sorry, but if you consider TNG season one 'quality' Star Trek in general (and this was the season were GR had the most control of the series); then I question your judgement of what is 'quality' in general (not a flame, just my honest opinion).
Bit again, in the end, GR's decannonization of TAS had nothing to do with its level of 'quality' or 'standards' is his eyes. It was more his attempt to bury TOS in favor of TNG because he'd sold his interest in TOS and TAS off long before TNG got him another financial stake in 'Star Trek'.
^^Don't be insulting. I haven't bought into any hype; I don't think Roddenberry was a saint, and I'm the first to debunk most of the mythology he built up. But neither am I going to jump to the most cynical possible conclusions and demonize the man just because he wasn't perfect. The truth is probably a mix of what I said and what you said. Just because he had a financial stake in the decision doesn't mean he didn't care at all; few people are so simplistic in their motivations.
^ A shame we're in the Internet era now, or this discourse could be typed up on a Smith-Corona, and copied photostatically and then sold by Lincoln Enterprises.
The IDIC incidents which have been well discussed and documented by Nimoy and Shatner through the years clearly illustrate that GR went through a period of *financial stakes* being the only thing that mattered. Between the end of TOS and the beginning of production of Phase II was a rather long 'dry spell' for GR.
But, his sincere efforts to produce Phase II (which really *is* TNG's core) weren't all financial. He honestly wanted to bring Star Trek back, I think we'd all agree. He's not responsible for the yanking back and forth from series to movie to series to movie that was going on at higher levels of Paramount.
As to TAS, it's a shame that CBS wouldn't let the digital team experiment with it to see if they could create a TAS-R with all the space scenes replaced with CGI, and even let them have a pass at creating CGI characters and see how that would go. Just to take the "Top Ten" TAS episodes... or even just a couple, namely "Yesteryear" and "Time Trap" would be something I'd pay gladly for a direct DVD.
Especially while Shatner and Nimoy are still around and available to provide some voice commentary, Log entries, etc. What a cool project that could be.
The IDIC incidents which have been well discussed and documented by Nimoy and Shatner through the years clearly illustrate that GR went through a period of *financial stakes* being the only thing that mattered. Between the end of TOS and the beginning of production of Phase II was a rather long 'dry spell' for GR.
But, his sincere efforts to produce Phase II (which really *is* TNG's core) weren't all financial. He honestly wanted to bring Star Trek back, I think we'd all agree. He's not responsible for the yanking back and forth from series to movie to series to movie that was going on at higher levels of Paramount.
As to TAS, it's a shame that CBS wouldn't let the digital team experiment with it to see if they could create a TAS-R with all the space scenes replaced with CGI, and even let them have a pass at creating CGI characters and see how that would go. Just to take the "Top Ten" TAS episodes... or even just a couple, namely "Yesteryear" and "Time Trap" would be something I'd pay gladly for a direct DVD.
Especially while Shatner and Nimoy are still around and available to provide some voice commentary, Log entries, etc. What a cool project that could be.
Christopher said most of it, but let's take a step back and correct a few things.
Gene wasn't fired from TMP and given a "consultant" credit; he was not brought in to produce the films that followed it, and on THEM he was a "consultant". He is credited as Executive Producer on ST:TMP.
Second, TMP was *not* the most expensive film made at the time. Various sources but the official budget as tying or coming in just short of that of 1963 box office bomb "Cleopatra" with a budget of about 44 million in 1963 dollars (arguably, possibly, even behind Superman--the costs of which are difficult to calculate because much of II was shot with I, and given how much of that never made it into II, those costs would be considered part of I's budget). And MUCH cheaper than the ~100 million 1968's Soviet made epic "War and Peace" was estimated to cost. Once inflation is adjusted for, it even falls behind 1927's "Metropolis." Add to that the financial nonsense where every previously abandoned Star Trek project's costs were piled onto TMP's budget (probably to allow them to be written off), and the film's actual budget drops a lot. So, by virtually any measure, it was never the most expensive film ever made.
Gene wasn't fired from TMP and given a "consultant" credit; he was not brought in to produce the films that followed it, and on THEM he was a "consultant". He is credited as Executive Producer on ST:TMP.
Second, TMP was *not* the most expensive film made at the time. Various sources but the official budget as tying or coming in just short of that of 1963 box office bomb "Cleopatra" with a budget of about 44 million in 1963 dollars (arguably, possibly, even behind Superman--the costs of which are difficult to calculate because much of II was shot with I, and given how much of that never made it into II, those costs would be considered part of I's budget). And MUCH cheaper than the ~100 million 1968's Soviet made epic "War and Peace" was estimated to cost. Once inflation is adjusted for, it even falls behind 1927's "Metropolis." Add to that the financial nonsense where every previously abandoned Star Trek project's costs were piled onto TMP's budget (probably to allow them to be written off), and the film's actual budget drops a lot. So, by virtually any measure, it was never the most expensive film ever made.
That would be a hoot.
They have all the action in outer space to take straight from the existing R episodes and having been to Jeff Wayne's War of the World's musical, I'd happily accept CGI'ed faces of the old crew.
His only other choice was to buy out Paramount's share, and then attempt to find new financial backers (for a dead property that was about to go into syndication), then make "Phase II" independently at different studio and try to sell it to a new network: a huge personal financial gamble.
Instead, GR opted to take the money that Paramount offered him, which set him up comfortably for the rest of his life. And who can blame him for that?
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