Bat Family Ages?

[Llama]

I just finished reading the Battle for the Cowl trade (yes I know I'm a bit behind) and I was wondering about the ages of all the characters. I did a quick wiki search but no luck.

From what I understand, Tim is now 17, so that should make Dick 27-30?, Barbra a couple of years older than Dick, Bruce would have to be at least 40-45, Alfred in his late 70s/early 80s, and Gordon in his mid to late 50s.

Would this be about right? Are there any official sources? If not, what's your best guess?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Tim's age is confusing; as late as the end of Robin he was right around sixteen, but as of Red Robin he's probably closer to eighteen.

Stephanie is a year older than Tim. Which pulls Tim's age up, if Stephanie's now a college freshman.

Damian is ten.

Dick has to be thirty to thirty-two. (This is based on Damian's age, Bruce's first encounter with Ra's when Dick was in college, and the likely time of Damian's conception.)

Bruce is fifty to fifty-five, again working backward from Damian's age.

That's working the numbers.

Officially, Bruce is going to be somewhere around thirty-five because Clark Kent is somewhere around thirty-five, and Superman and Batman made their debuts at the same time. If Bruce is early-fifties, then so too are Clark and Lois. DC should bite bullet and decouple the debuts of Superman and Batman but they won't.

 

[JoeZhang]

I think Superman is around 33 and so is Bruce Wayne. The numbers don't add up, you can't make them add up and you'll get a headache trying.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

This is how it works:

If they were created before 1980, DC heroes age until they're 35, and never any more than that.

The only exception is sidekicks or former sidekicks, who age until they're 25, and rarely any more than that.

In the case of multiple sidekicks (mostly the Robins), there will come a time when they will all appear to be 25, which will create a very embarrassing situation. When that happens, either DC will kill them (that's the Marvel way, the New Mutants/ Generation X/ New X-Men/ Young X-Men/ Generation Hope solution) or they will reboot the universe (in a new "Crisis").

Characters created after 1980 never get the chance to age because they're mostly used as cannon fodder in big crossovers.

 

[God Magnus]

This is how it works:

If they were created before 1980, DC heroes age until they're 35, and never any more than that.

The only exception is sidekicks or former sidekicks, who age until they're 25, and rarely any more than that.

In the case of multiple sidekicks (mostly the Robins), there will come a time when they will all appear to be 25, which will create a very embarrassing situation. When that happens, either DC will kill them (that's the Marvel way, the New Mutants/ Generation X/ New X-Men/ Young X-Men/ Generation Hope solution) or they will reboot the universe (in a new "Crisis").

Characters created after 1980 never get the chance to age because they're mostly used as cannon fodder in big crossovers.

This is how I see it. I've been reading Batman pretty regularly since around the late 80's and if you were to say each "real year" was one year in Bruce's life, he should be about fifty something at this point, but you'd never know it from his portrayal. I think I decided some time around 2000 to stop thinking about ages since they'll never make much sense in most comic book universe.

 

[Mike Farley]

DC has this odd habit of introducing young sidekicks then immediately setting about aging them to (young) adulthood. Then realizing that they screwed up and introducing a new young sidekick...and immediately start aging them.

Any day now Dick Grayson is going to be older than Bruce.

And the passage of time is never consistent. In the past 30 years Franklin Richards has aged about 2 years. In the same period of time Kitty Pryde has aged about 7 years.

 

[Mr Light]

The way they're drawn now... Bruce and Dick look like they're the same age...

 

[Mike Farley]

Funny how Dick instantly gained about 30 pounds of muscle when he took over as Batman.

 

[Christopher]

What's interesting to me is how nicely the DC Animated Universe avoids this problem. I've found that it holds up very well if you assume each series (except the ones set in the future, of course) takes place in roughly the years it aired. My conjectural DCAU chronology has Bruce Wayne born in 1962, becoming Batman in 1984 at age 22. Dick Grayson is born in 1974 or '75 ("Robin's Reckoning" is ambiguous about whether he's 9 or 10 in his flashbacks, which are early in Batman's career). B:TAS begins around 9 years later, in 1993 (at least the Robin episodes thereof, since FOX insisted Robin be 18), so Bruce is 31 and up. He's around 37 by the time of TNBA, 39 by the start of Justice League, 43 by the end of JLU. It's a reach to assume he could still be physically capable at 43 after two decades of extremely strenuous activity; realistically he'd have burned out in his early 30s. But he's supposed to be the ultimate physical specimen and all, and some pro athletes (like Jimmy Connors) have managed to keep competing professionally into their early 40s. So I think it's within acceptable limits.

I also have Kal-El born in 1968 and sent to Earth a year later; Lois Lane born in 1970 (same year Bruce is orphaned); and Tim Drake born in 1985. I don't have a birth year listed for Barbara Gordon, but I assume she's a year behind Dick in college, so that would probably give her a 1975-6 birthdate.

 

[captcalhoun]

who cares? there'll be anotehr Crisis in a couple years and they'll all get retconned, rebooted, deaged and generally screwed about with...

which is why i've never been keen to get into DC comics lately, i'll stick to Ultimate Marvel where we at least know that the events have taken place over roughly four or five years. (ish.)

 

[JoeZhang]

who cares? there'll be anotehr Crisis in a couple years and they'll all get retconned, rebooted, deaged and generally screwed about with...

which is why i've never been keen to get into DC comics lately, i'll stick to Ultimate Marvel where we at least know that the events have taken place over roughly four or five years. (ish.)

I pretty sure that Ultimate Spider-man wrecks that and it takes place over some crazy period of time like three months!

 

[captcalhoun]

the first one hundred issues are supposed to be a year. but that's a huge retcon, since there was a 3-month gap from Power and Responsibility to the second arc, the Carnage arc has 2 one month gaps and there's a six-month jump at the end of Hollywood.

it's never perfect though...

 

[Llama]

No way is Damien only ten. He steals the batmobile to impress a girl (battle for the cowl) - he'd have to be at least 13-14 for that sort of behavior.

Also, it might just be me, but I'd love to see dick and babs finally get together permanently. If it can work for green arrow and black canary, why not for them?

 

[Lord Garth]

It's said repeatedly in the comics that Damian is 10.

Based on this, Ra's Al Ghul -- in post-Infinite Crisis continuity -- was now introduced when Dick Grayson was in high school instead of college.

I'd say:

Bruce Wayne = Pushing 40
Kate Kane (Batwoman) = 32
Barbara Gordon (Oracle) = Pushing 30
Dick Grayson = 25 or 26
Jason Todd = 21-ish
Cassandra Cain = 20
Stephanie Brown (Batgirl) = 19
Tim Drake (Red Robin) = 17 1/2 (almost 18)
Damian Wayne (Robin) = 10

 

[Admiral_Young]

Remember too that Damien is genetically engineered as well...enhanced if you will after his birth as was shown in the flashback bits in "Batman #666". ^ Lord Garth's age chart there is what I would subscribe too as well.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

No way is Damien only ten.

Grant Morrison says he's ten. (See the "Batman Vs. Robin" arc in Batman & Robin. Issue 12.)

Also, it might just be me, but I'd love to see dick and babs finally get together permanently. If it can work for green arrow and black canary, why not for them?

I'd rather see Dick/Helena or Dick/Donna Troy.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm partial to Dick and Babs too and Dick has stated repeatedly that he thinks of Donna as a sister now rather than a potential lover. Kory and Dick still have shown sparks in recent years as well. Dick and Babs were engaged prior to "Infinite Crisis" at one point but the "One Year Later" thing nixed this.

I'd like to see Bruce hook up with Zatanna myself...the "Heart of Hush" story from Paul Dini hinted that Zee has feelings for Bruce and knows he does for her but the two of them have chosen not to explore them.

 

[Christopher]

I'd like to see Bruce hook up with Zatanna myself...the "Heart of Hush" story from Paul Dini hinted that Zee has feelings for Bruce and knows he does for her but the two of them have chosen not to explore them.

I thought that was Selina's role in that story, with Zatanna acting more as a friend. Not that Dini hasn't hinted at Bruce-Zee sparks before.

And the weird thing is that the Bruce-Selina stuff in HoH seemed to be going on at the same time that Bruce was involved with some person named Jezebel Jet in other titles. That was even alluded to in HoH, but otherwise pretty much ignored, whereas Bruce-Selina was pretty much ignored in the other simultaneous stuff.

 

[Reverend]

What's interesting to me is how nicely the DC Animated Universe avoids this problem. I've found that it holds up very well if you assume each series (except the ones set in the future, of course) takes place in roughly the years it aired. My conjectural DCAU chronology has Bruce Wayne born in 1962, becoming Batman in 1984 at age 22. Dick Grayson is born in 1974 or '75 ("Robin's Reckoning" is ambiguous about whether he's 9 or 10 in his flashbacks, which are early in Batman's career). B:TAS begins around 9 years later, in 1993 (at least the Robin episodes thereof, since FOX insisted Robin be 18), so Bruce is 31 and up. He's around 37 by the time of TNBA, 39 by the start of Justice League, 43 by the end of JLU. It's a reach to assume he could still be physically capable at 43 after two decades of extremely strenuous activity; realistically he'd have burned out in his early 30s. But he's supposed to be the ultimate physical specimen and all, and some pro athletes (like Jimmy Connors) have managed to keep competing professionally into their early 40s. So I think it's within acceptable limits.

Actually, if you take 'Epilogue' into consideration it lines up even better as Waller says at some point, not long after JLU, she notices Bruce start to slow down with age before retiring after about another 20-30 years. And only then because he has a heart attack right in the middle of a fight.

As for the dates themselves, they're rather meaningless since even if Bruce did become Batman in '84, it wasn't "our" '84. It was and '84 that look like the 30's or 40's, full of art-deco, fedoras and police zeppelins.

I also have Kal-El born in 1968 and sent to Earth a year later;

I've never been clear on this (and I suppose it depends on which origin you read) but wasn't there a time dilation factor involved in his transit from Krypton to Earth? Either way I think it'd be good if they startred to make Lois look older, say mid-to-late 40s while keeping Clark or at least Superman looking mid-30's. I think the going mode of thinking has Kryptonians under a yellow sun ageing much slower. Indeed, getting back to the DCAU they had Kal show up in Batman Beyond looking about half of Bruce's age.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'd like to see Bruce hook up with Zatanna myself...the "Heart of Hush" story from Paul Dini hinted that Zee has feelings for Bruce and knows he does for her but the two of them have chosen not to explore them.

I thought that was Selina's role in that story, with Zatanna acting more as a friend. Not that Dini hasn't hinted at Bruce-Zee sparks before.

I concur with Christopher, here. "Heart of Hush" is more about Bruce and Selina than Bruce and Zee; I don't recall that Bruce and Zee have a scene together, though Zee and Selina do.

However, there was a storyline in 'Tec by Dini and Nguyen a few issues before that (collected in Batman: The Private Casebook) that explicit states that Bruce and Zee have a mutual attraction but Bruce isn't going to act upon it.

Because of that connection between Bruce and Zee, I suspect that once Morrison's master-plan sorts itself out and Bruce reestablishes himself in Gotham the Zatanna series will fall into the Bat-family orbit. Assuming it lasts that long, that is.

And the weird thing is that the Bruce-Selina stuff in HoH seemed to be going on at the same time that Bruce was involved with some person named Jezebel Jet in other titles. That was even alluded to in HoH, but otherwise pretty much ignored, whereas Bruce-Selina was pretty much ignored in the other simultaneous stuff.

The various R.I.P. tie-ins aren't entirely consistent with one another. "Heart of Hush" officially takes place immediately prior to "R.I.P.," but making sense of Bruce's love for Selina with his relationship with Jezebel is difficult.