Babylon 5 and O'Hare's departure.

[Starkers]

I don’t know if spoilers really matter for a show that ended over 10 years ago, but this thread will obviously contain them!

Apologies if this has been discussed a million times before...

Having watched and loved B5 back in the day, I finally got around to starting buying the DVDs when I got Season 1 after Christmas. It’s something I’ve meant to do for ages. Anyway finished watching Season 1 last night and have already placed an online order for season 2. The show is just as good as I remember it.

But onto the point at hand. What’s really struck me this time around is how much I liked Sinclair. Now don’t get me wrong, I like Sheridan too, and I realise from reading stuff over the years that (I believe) it was always the intention for Sinclair to leave and for Sheridan to come in at some point, but it also seems that if this were the case (and someone will probably correct me now) that it clearly happened much sooner than planned and seemed quite sudden.

I’ve tried to discover reasons for O’Hare leaving online, but it seems very vague; was it a mutual between him and JMS, did the network force him out? It can’t have been too acrimonious given that he came back to complete Sinclair’s story arc, but I wondered if anyone could shed more light on the situation?

I do remember seeing Jerry Doyle at a con in 95 or 96 and he made reference to some people on the show being a bit big for their boots, then followed it up by saying something along the lines of “Thank god that guy isn’t around any more.” Of course he may not have been talking about O'Hare.

So, was it for story purposes, because O’Hare wanted out, or because he was a bad fit with the rest of the cast?

Was Sheridan always supposed to come in, or was everything that happened to Sheridan supposed to happen to Sinclair?

 

[Sindatur]

I don’t know if spoilers really matter for a show that ended over 10 years ago, but this thread will obviously contain them!

Apologies if this has been discussed a million times before...

Having watched and loved B5 back in the day, I finally got around to starting buying the DVDs when I got Season 1 after Christmas. It’s something I’ve meant to do for ages. Anyway finished watching Season 1 last night and have already placed an online order for season 2. The show is just as good as I remember it.

But onto the point at hand. What’s really struck me this time around is how much I liked Sinclair. Now don’t get me wrong, I like Sheridan too, and I realise from reading stuff over the years that (I believe) it was always the intention for Sinclair to leave and for Sheridan to come in at some point, but it also seems that if this were the case (and someone will probably correct me now) that it clearly happened much sooner than planned and seemed quite sudden.

I’ve tried to discover reasons for O’Hare leaving online, but it seems very vague; was it a mutual between him and JMS, did the network force him out? It can’t have been too acrimonious given that he came back to complete Sinclair’s story arc, but I wondered if anyone could shed more light on the situation?

I do remember seeing Jerry Doyle at a con in 95 or 96 and he made reference to some people on the show being a bit big for their boots, then followed it up by saying something along the lines of “Thank god that guy isn’t around any more.” Of course he may not have been talking about O'Hare.

So, was it for story purposes, because O’Hare wanted out, or because he was a bad fit with the rest of the cast?

Was Sheridan always supposed to come in, or was everything that happened to Sheridan supposed to happen to Sinclair?

The very first plan was for Sinclair to become Valen at the end of the 5 year arc. So, Sinclair would've had both Sinclair and Sheridan's story arc (Sakai was meant to have Anna Sheridan's Arc). JMS realized that was too much story arc for one character, and created Sheridan. O'Hare decided to leave earlier than originally anticipated, I believe.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

There were rumours of inappropriate and unprofessional behaviour by O'Hare but without corroboration the stories sounded invented and came across like envy-driven bitchiness. I believe that the stated reason for O'Hare leaving was that he wanted to return to theatrical work, which he preferred to the tedium of making a TV show.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I heard that the studio found him dull and lacking the charisma of a leading man. So he was replaced by the more tv-experienced Boxleitner. It was much the same as happened with Murder One (Daniel Benzali being replaced by Anthony LaPaglia).

 

[Pingfah]

I would take anything Jerry Doyle says with a pinch of salt.

 

[Sindatur]

I heard that the studio found him dull and lacking the charisma of a leading man. So he was replaced by the more tv-experienced Boxleitner. It was much the same as happened with Murder One (Daniel Benzali being replaced by Anthony LaPaglia).

Pat Tallman, after the Pilot The Gathering was replaced at the insistence of the Studio, because they wanted someone "sexier". Then Pat Tallman was brought back when Andrea Thompson got too big a head and wanted to be "THE STAR" of the show. (Andrea being Jerry Doyle's wife for a time)

 

[Aeon]

The very first plan was for Sinclair to become Valen at the end of the 5 year arc. So, Sinclair would've had both Sinclair and Sheridan's story arc (Sakai was meant to have Anna Sheridan's Arc). JMS realized that was too much story arc for one character, and created Sheridan. O'Hare decided to leave earlier than originally anticipated, I believe.

I've also heard that since the story was changed, both JMS and O'Hare decided that this wasn't the story that was essentially sold to the latter and they parted ways in a professional manner with a promise from JMS that Sinclair's story would be concluded at some point.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The actual story never has, to the best of my knowledge, "gone public" and probably never will. Not a fan of jms in general, I'll say that he handled this situation very well, with integrity and with great sensitivity to all concerned.

 

[Neroon]

Dennis is on the mark. Odds are we will never know the full story. However, it's important to note that apparently regardless of who made the ultimate decision, O'Hare must not have burned any bridges, or at least not too badly. He was brought back later, making appearances in three more episodes as Sinclair.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Agreed and I've only ever heard O'Hare say nice things about him too.

(In response to Dennis)

 

[JoeZhang]

I heard that the studio found him dull and lacking the charisma of a leading man. So he was replaced by the more tv-experienced Boxleitner. It was much the same as happened with Murder One (Daniel Benzali being replaced by Anthony LaPaglia).

Oddly.... Daniel Benzali is now playing a character on General Hospital who is pretending to an an attorney called "Theo Hoffman".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JhexWSYJbA

 

[C_Miller]

I will say, it certainly didn't feel planned into the story (which is something a lot of fans tend to give B5 credit for). I'm currently working my way through the show and the transition between Sinclair and Sheridan was extremely jarring. I almost gave up on the show, because I wasn't buying the transition. Now I like Sheridan more than I liked Sinclair.

 

[Reverend]

Dennis is on the mark. Odds are we will never know the full story. However, it's important to note that apparently regardless of who made the ultimate decision, O'Hare must not have burned any bridges, or at least not too badly. He was brought back later, making appearances in three more episodes as Sinclair.

Indeed. However, what we can be fairly confident of is that it wasn't as straight forward as "the studio thought he was boring" or any purported backstage shenanigans between the actors (I gather neither Doyle nor Christian got on well with the bloke.)

As always Jan probably knows better but IIRC JMS's line has always been that the main impetus was story driven (realising that Sinclair having such a strong connection to the Shadows and the Minbari being a bit of a stretch.) Add to that an awareness that O'Hare wanted to go back to theatre and it's easy to see how it was a mutual agreement.

As to the details, supposedly only O'Hare, JMS and Netter know what was said behind closed doors and presumably that's how it's going to stay. To put it bluntly; it's nobody else's damn business.

The very first plan was for Sinclair to become Valen at the end of the 5 year arc. So, Sinclair would've had both Sinclair and Sheridan's story arc (Sakai was meant to have Anna Sheridan's Arc). JMS realized that was too much story arc for one character, and created Sheridan. O'Hare decided to leave earlier than originally anticipated, I believe.

I'm pretty sure JMS has refuted the idea that Sakai would have had Anna's storyline. Broadly similar perhaps, but not a 1:1 switch. For one thing, we know the Shadows were already awake and Morden was already out and about in season one, so that part of her story couldn't have been the same since Sakai was still around right up until Chrysalis.

I will say, it certainly didn't feel planned into the story (which is something a lot of fans tend to give B5 credit for). I'm currently working my way through the show and the transition between Sinclair and Sheridan was extremely jarring. I almost gave up on the show, because I wasn't buying the transition. Now I like Sheridan more than I liked Sinclair.

B5 was planned, but JMS has repeatedly stated that he intentionally built in "trap doors" so that if anything unforeseen were to occur like an actor choosing to leave, or a better idea occuring to him midway through then just about any character could be dropped down the proverbial hole and either another brought in to replace them or their plot thread moved to another character or even spit between several.

A good example of this is what happened when Tamlyn Tomita opted not to sign on to doing the series proper. The intention was for her to betray everyone and shoot Garibaldi in the back because she had been reprogrammed by Psi Corps. So when she left, rather than just transfer the whole thing to Ivanova, it was instead split between Talia (who was to also inherit Lyta's connection to the Vorlons) and Garibaldi's second. Of course it gets even more interesting when Andrea Thompson decided she wasn't getting enough screen time and left the show, in which case she was just removed and Lyta was brought back to carry on more or less as as she was supposed to in the first place...then it happened again when Claudia Christian didn't come back for the fifth season and Lyta inherited the bulk of what was originally going to be Ivanova's doomed romance with Byron.

So yes, there was a plan, but it was a flexible plan.

 

[Jan]

I’ve tried to discover reasons for O’Hare leaving online, but it seems very vague; was it a mutual between him and JMS, did the network force him out? It can’t have been too acrimonious given that he came back to complete Sinclair’s story arc, but I wondered if anyone could shed more light on the situation?

JMS has always stated that it was mutual but that it was he who first approached O'Hare. As JMS was planning the second season, it became obvious that hanging connections to both the Minbari *and* the Shadows on one character would be stretching credibility. It became obvious that a Sheridan-like character would be needed and that would necessarily push Sinclair aside for a substantial time.

At the same time, O'Hare had concerns about being away from his home in New York and the real possibility of typecasting (a la Trek). They came to an agreement that allowed his character to come back from time to time and parted. amicably. I'm not sure of the timing but I *think* I'd even read that O'Hare did his first conventions after the split had been agreed on and was a wonderful ambassador for the show.

As for Jerry Doyle...he is, was, and probably always shall be a boor when it comes to talking about O'Hare. (Actually, that sentence could have simply ended with 'boor'.)

The very first plan was for Sinclair to become Valen at the end of the 5 year arc. So, Sinclair would've had both Sinclair and Sheridan's story arc (Sakai was meant to have Anna Sheridan's Arc).

That's oft-repeated but there's no evidence anywhere to support it. The outline JMS wrote between the pilot and season one (published in the script books) never mentioned Valen and Sakai was destined for a completely different fate. In fact, the 'religious figure' for the Minbari was to be Sinclair and Delenn's son - in the future, not the past.

B5 was planned, but JMS has repeatedly stated that he intentionally built in "trap doors" so that if anything unforeseen were to occur like an actor choosing to leave, or a better idea occuring to him midway through then just about any character could be dropped down the proverbial hole and either another brought in to replace them or their plot thread moved to another character or even spit between several.

Exactly. There were certain things that had to happen. It didn't necessarily matter how, it just needed to happen. For instance, whoever the telepath character was, she needed to acquire enhanced abilities. With Talia, it was Jason Ironheart's gift and with Lyta, it was her trip to the Vorlon homeworld. Some were probably more detailed than others but if the real world interfered, threads planned for one character could shift to another without derailing everything.

So yes, there was a plan, but it was a flexible plan.

Yep. There was plenty of room left for better ideas or detours. The individual episodes weren't planned before the show ever started, that's a myth. But many story ideas were arrived at and notes made early on and when the time came they were fleshed out and 'outlined' on index cards with 'A' plots matched up with 'B' and even sometimes 'C' plots.

Jan

 

[Candlelight]

For instance, whoever the telepath character was, she needed to acquire enhanced abilities. With Talia, it was Jason Ironheart's gift and with Lyta, it was her trip to the Vorlon homeworld. Some were probably more detailed than others but if the real world interfered, threads planned for one character could shift to another without derailing everything.

Just like how Warren Keffer was replaced with a pot plant in Season Three.

 

[Forbin]

Someone sexier than Pat Tallman?
Sorry, does not compute.

 

[Sindatur]

Someone sexier than Pat Tallman?
Sorry, does not compute.

Heh, yea, I never thought Andrea Thompson was

 

[Hyperspace05]

Yeah, as others have mentioned O'Hare and Doyle did not seem to get along - although that was probably not all of it.

But it is interesting to note that when O'Hare came back in WWE, he did not have a single scene with Doyle.

 

[Jan]

Just like how Warren Keffer was replaced with a pot plant in Season Three.

Pot plant or potted plant? If the former, you give the Keffer character far too much credit (and it was the second season).

Someone sexier than Pat Tallman?
Sorry, does not compute.

WB wanted somebody with more acting credits since at that time Pat had more stunt credits on her resume with a few co-starring roles.

No *way* Talia/Andrea was sexier than Lyta/Pat!!

Jan

 

[Candlelight]

Just like how Warren Keffer was replaced with a pot plant in Season Three.

Pot plant or potted plant? If the former, you give the Keffer character far too much credit (and it was the second season).

Keffer died in the season two finale, thus was replaced in the third season.