Art Project: Re-Imagined Star Trek Early Years

[CuttingEdge100]

I'm thinking of an idea which involves coming up with ideas of 15 vessel types, and a re-imagined Phoenix

My idea for the re-imagined Phoenix is for it to be a ring-ship. Some very early warp-ships such as XCV-330A Enterprise used a warp-ring rather than nacelles. A ring sounds actually much easier to make workable than having two nacelles do the job.

As for the other 15 ship-classes, the idea is to have a total of 17-classes of ships dating from 2156 to 2161 or so to 2243/2245 working on Matt Jeffries' original idea that the Constitution was supposed to be the 17th class of ship built for the Federation. The Daedalus is the first, and the Constitution is the 17th class, so the idea is to come up with 15 classes in the middle.

I would assume a couple of classes would be built around similar time periods though...


I plan to start out with the Re-Imagined Phoenix Ring-Ship... I'm already working on drawings of it (I'm not a good artist, but at least I can get my idea across I hope).

The idea consists of the following, Cochrane builds some unmanned test versions which break the warp barrier in 2061, with the manned warp-flight of the Phoenix taking place in April 2063 to deal with the two year discrepancy (Originally it was said that Cochrane broke the warp-barrier in 2061, and in FC it was said it was in April 2063).

While I'm not sure how much resources could be expected, but it sounds kind of ridiculous that he would be limited to an ancient ICBM as a launch platform. Modern day there are already rockets much larger that can put satellites (even private ones for broadcast purposes for example) into orbit for example.

Another thing I'm thinking about worthy of note is that considering there are vehicles like Space Ship One, I wouldn't be surprised if by 2063 you'd be able to build a similar vehicle that could get to a full orbit. It would render the old space-capsule on the Phoenix unnecessary and you could insert into orbit aboard such a vessel, board and depart the Phoenix with that and then de-orbit and land.


Opinions? (In general or in regards to the Phoenix Re-Imagined Concept)


CuttingEdge100
BTW: Others are welcome to come up with ideas, I'd love to see them

 

[GilmourD]

My issue with the Phoenix being a ringship is two-fold.

First... I don't think the rings would've worked very well launching from a missile silo. The two nacelle configuration works well because the nacelles folded away. Cochrane was trying to keep the Phoenix a secret inside an existing missile silo. To use rings would've required modifying the silo or using another location.

Second... The whole ring thing was a Vulcan idea, which was introduced to humans afterwards, but when it didn't work out, they went back to nacelles.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

GilmourD,

The idea was to have the main hull hoisted by rockets and the ring to be hoisted up by rockets. With the two to be maneuvered together and joined in space.

BTW: When was it stated the ring was a Vulcan idea? Was this stated in ENT?

 

[GilmourD]

GilmourD,

The idea was to have the main hull hoisted by rockets and the ring to be hoisted up by rockets. With the two to be maneuvered together and joined in space.

BTW: When was it stated the ring was a Vulcan idea? Was this stated in ENT?

Wouldn't that also defeat the point of trying to be secretive about it? It would be quite a maneuver to assemble two pieces in orbit rather than just one rocket that just goes. I would imagine that Colonel Green would've easily shot the thing out of orbit while reconnecting.

I forget where I read it... I remember that the Vulcans were like, "OMG!!! THIS IS THE GREATEST THING! USE IT!!! Uh... I mean... It's logical..." Therefore, the first few Earth warp ships after the Phoenix were ring-based, until Cochrane and his fellow warp specialists realized that they got better results and better warp geometry from twin nacelles.

Also... I think that the Phoenix being a repurposed missile is kinda poetic. I mean... A phoenix is a bird rising from the ashes. The Phoenix is a warp ship rising from the technological destruction of nuclear war.

 

[Praetor]

I don't think it was ever specifically said on ENT that the annular warp drive was a Vulcan invention, but since they used it there and the Vulcan ship in "Unification" had one, I think we can safely assume it's their thing.

 

[largo]

my opinion? its a good concept. the entire canonical history of ringships is pretty well within ENT, don't let yourself be held to that.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

GilmourD,

I thought WW3 was over by the time Cochrane launched his ship?

Can you find out the source where it said how the Vulcans were the ones who invented the ring-ships?


Largo,

Well if it's confined to ENT, I would feel pretty free in taking creative liscence. I didn't like ENT much as it somewhat contradicted the TOS timelines.


CuttingEdge100

 

[GilmourD]

GilmourD,

I thought WW3 was over by the time Cochrane launched his ship?

Can you find out the source where it said how the Vulcans were the ones who invented the ring-ships?

Yes, WW3 was over, but the missile used was leftover from the war. Also, while the war was technically over, there were malicious factions from whom Cochrane wanted to hide, like the above mentioned Colonel Green.

I'll try to find it... After I eat dinner. Just got home.

 

[Tarek71]

Im not up on all the other things that were supposed to be going on in Cochranes time. The Factions and all that. So I dont know exactly why he needed it to be a secret, or if he did at all. Certainly if "dollar signs" were his vision he obviously intended it to be very public at some point. In any case the moment you say you are re-imagining you can decide to change more than the design of the ship if you wish.

I dont see any problem with a ring or ring like structure for the phoenix. And a ring structure could be formed by a few folding and retractable elements that form a ring once in orbit, so you dont have to assume that you need nacelles to achieve that.

I personally think that a far larger number of ship classes would have existed by the time you get to the Constitution Class. Hundreds of classes seem more likely. You have to think about several classes of supply vessels and of transports, corvettes/cutters, frigates, tugs, ammunition ships, research ships, destroyers, cruisers, etc. I could see 15 or 17 classes just of supply ships over the course of 100-odd years to say nothing of all the kinds of ship that could exist.

So I wouldnt feel restricted to any particular number. On the contrary, I think its would be more realistic to have alot more. I find hazegray.org a good resource to see just how many kinds of ships there are. Now that covers Navy, Coast Guard, Army, NOAA etc. And you cant make too many direct comparisons from a maritime fleet, but nevertheless, I think its helpful.

This link gives a list of ship types. Each type can have several classes.

http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/usa/designat.htm

As you can see, its formidable. Over a hundred types. The number of classes would be much larger.

 

[RichMerk]

If you are taking submissions for classes and this one is good enough, I'll be happy to donate it to the cause.

http://3d.merknet.com/free/mandalay/mandalay.html

 

[B.J.]

^ That looks *very* similar to Forbin's SS Reeses.

 

[RichMerk]

Yeah, that's where I got the idea. I loved that ship and most of the others on his web site. Mine is a little different though.

 

[Tarek71]

Yes, it is a little different. But I think if you want to do a variation on someone elses design, especially when its such a close one, you should at the least throw in a reference to that person with a lil thanks given for their efforts.

 

[RichMerk]

Well, the picture of the Reeses may have started me down that particular road, but I felt my end result was unique. In my eye, the differences were more than enough to not put credits up. And most art projects are inspired by something.

On the other hand, the last thing I want to do is start a fight or cheat someone of the credits they feel they deserve, so I'll go ahead and put the proper credits on the page.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

If you are taking submissions for classes and this one is good enough, I'll be happy to donate it to the cause.

http://3d.merknet.com/free/mandalay/mandalay.html

This is a really great model of the USS MANDALAY NCC-275. Great lighting, textures. I even like the blue Warp Nacelles design. The transparent window is a nice touch.
Do you have this as a 1024x768 render for a desktop background?
http://3d.merknet.com/free/mandalay/mandalay1.jpg

 

[Tarek71]

Well, the picture of the Reeses may have started me down that particular road, but I felt my end result was unique. In my eye, the differences were more than enough to not put credits up. And most art projects are inspired by something.

On the other hand, the last thing I want to do is start a fight or cheat someone of the credits they feel they deserve, so I'll go ahead and put the proper credits on the page.

Inspiration is just fine. I see so much great work on here from so many people who post here. I can certainly see wanting to riff on some the designs and do variations. No problem there. You did a great job. Well done.

 

[RichMerk]

Do you have this as a 1024x768 render for a desktop background?

Yes, you can find it here: http://merknet.com/stpmaforum/3d/mandalayorbit.jpg

And a few more of different resolutions here: http://banshees.merknet.com/graphics/digiart/startrek/startrek1.html

You did a great job. Well done.

Thanks.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Okay, here the Phoenix Ringship idea...

Obviously, this was drawn by yours truly as the drawing absolutely sucks. It does illustrate the basic concept. The vessel uses an annular warp-ring which is the best shape and most logical shape for a scientist trying to make such a drive with basic technology


This image shown here...

... illustrates quite well why the ring is the best shape especially for the first warp-ship (it's easier to make a ring project a 3D bubble like this than to have a couple of nacelle pods doing it instead)


The shape was inspired by NASA's conceptual induction ring, which I do not have a picture of, and was also inspired by this particularly image, which actually depicts an aircraft aircraft with a ducted propeller.

I edited out the plane and just left the ducted propeller area, shortened the fins at the back of the engine-pod and did some crappy editing to make it look like a stand-alone shape shown here...

...I also edited over the intake located at the front of the ducted prop-nacelle as there would be no purpose for it on this design and is instead a blunt nose. Truthfully, I would have wanted to stretch the rear section out a little bit to produce a shape more "teardrop" in nature.

The design does possess a shape that quite like the NASA induction-ring, and is an obvious ring-ship. But it has a simpler more utilitarian shape. The fins, located on the back of the vessel, which I have made shorter, appear to provide a good location for conventional newtonian propulsion (Useful for getting into space, and for getting back to Earth after performing the warp-flight)

The drawing does not show any retro-engines in the front for braking, but the intention would be to stretch the base of the pylons which hold the ring onto the hull and mount small engines there.


CONSTRUCTION & LAUNCH

The idea for the construction and launch of the ship could be accomplished two ways

OPTION ONE: The ship would be constructed as a whole, mounted vertically with several rockets mounted to the vessel's hull with potentially smaller rockets mounted to the wings. The vessels main engines would be fired along with the rockets with the vessel accelerated up into orbit. The rockets would be jettisoned along the way with the vessel eventually left with just with it's own engines and would use that to accelerate out of orbit to a position to engage it's warp-engine.

Advantage: Everything goes into space at once
Disadvantage: Much larger payload, larger launch facility required

OPTION TWO: The ship is constructed in two parts. The first consisting of the main hull, which would be fitted with rocket boosters as necessary along the hull, and the second part consisting of the ring with several rockets fitted to it. The main hull would have it's own engines to help hoist itself into orbit, the ring would be dependant on external rockets. Once the boosters expend their fuel they'd be expended.

The main ship would essentially dock with the ring with final construction and assembly made in space.

Advantage: Each part weighs less than the entire vessel as an organic whole, thus making launch easier. It also results in a smaller payload and not as large a launch facility required

Disadvantage: Final joining and construction would have to occur in space, would be more logistically intensive once in space.


CuttingEdge100

 

[Tarek71]

Disadvantage: Final joining and construction would have to occur in space, would be more logistically intensive once in space.

The ring could be foldable. The four struts could be like four letter "T's". The two halfs of each crossing T fold in.

Crudely: T ^ l

Picture an arrow for the middle one. Then the lower case "l" folds into the ship. Does that make any sense? Might need some tweaking.

 

[sojourner]

Here's a link to the NASA induction ring:
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/I/induction_ring.html