Angel: how did you feel about Doyle?

[RoJoHen]

I've seen "Angel" about twice through at this point, and I just started again the other day. I'm watching "Hero" right now, and I still can't believe they killed off Doyle so early into the show (and that it was planned that way from the start!). I thought his character was so great and definitely kept the show very down-to-earth. The way he goes out is very heroic and tragic at the same time.

But what really gets me about Doyle is how much his death resonates through the rest of the series. Even when you forget about him, random moments bring him up again and make you feel for him. I especially love Season 5 when Lindsay goes around pretending to be Doyle. I love how it pissed off Cordelia in "You're Welcome." Moreso, I love how it pissed off ME! When Lindsay introduces himself as Doyle, I couldn't believe how angry I automatically became...4 full seasons after he died! No other character has ever had that kind of impact on me.

So how do you feel about Doyle?

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

I liked him. He was the "heart" of the show if you will. When he died, I was pissed. Then, as you said, when Lindsey dared to use his name I was furious at him.

 

[Hermiod]

I liked him just fine, but I didn't get upset when he died and I wasn't generally all that attached to him.

That's true of most of Angel's characters. I never felt all that invested in them. In fact, I'd say that's true of most of Joss Whedon's characters. I enjoy the stories he tells but the characters often don't work for me quite as well as they should.

 

[RoJoHen]

That's true of most of Angel's characters. I never felt all that invested in them. In fact, I'd say that's true of most of Joss Whedon's characters. I enjoy the stories he tells but the characters often don't work for me quite as well as they should.

I'm almost exactly the opposite. I think his stories are okay, but I get remarkably attached to his characters. I'm still upset that Cordelia died!

 

[Rii]

I liked him just fine, but I didn't get upset when he died and I wasn't generally all that attached to him.

Pretty much. Also I thought "Hero" was a substandard episode outside of Doyle's bracketing advertisement.

 

[IndyJones]

When I started watching TNT's repeats of Angel, the show was somewhere in the 2nd season. I watched to the end, and continued as they swung back to the start of season 1. I knew Doyle wouldn't last, but I was still really disappointed when he died. And it caught me off guard to find myself wondering how the show would go on without him.

It's even sadder when you think of what happened to Glenn Quinn in his private life.

 

[Hermiod]

That's true of most of Angel's characters. I never felt all that invested in them. In fact, I'd say that's true of most of Joss Whedon's characters. I enjoy the stories he tells but the characters often don't work for me quite as well as they should.

I'm almost exactly the opposite. I think his stories are okay, but I get remarkably attached to his characters. I'm still upset that Cordelia died!

I find Joss' shows hard work a lot of the time. I've said this before, but I find his male characters poorly written and his female characters are virtually all Mary Sues.

Back on topic, though - Cordelia is the only one I was actually bothered about but that's largely because I didn't think at the time that Charisma Carpenter had been treated very well. Doyle was one of Joss' better male characters, I suppose, but I was used to Joss killing people off at that point.

 

[Rii]

I find Joss' shows hard work a lot of the time. I've said this before, but I find his male characters poorly written and his female characters are virtually all Mary Sues.

I couldn't disagree with you on this subject more.

Well, maybe S1/2 Xander.

 

[Hermiod]

I find Joss' shows hard work a lot of the time. I've said this before, but I find his male characters poorly written and his female characters are virtually all Mary Sues.

I couldn't disagree with you on this subject more.

Well, maybe S1/2 Xander.

We've been around the block on this one before, so let's not get in to it again.

 

[Michael Chris]

I liked Doyle quite a bit. It also seriously ticked me off when Lindsey was using his name in season 5. It was a risky move considering what happened to Glen Quinn.

His real death and Andy Hallett's make Angel one of the hardest shows for me to watch.

 

[RoJoHen]

It was a risky move considering what happened to Glen Quinn.

I think that's what makes it perfect. It made it hurt that much more.

 

[Michael Chris]

Yep.

 

[Trubinator]

I actually like him more than any other character (save Angel).

 

[JacksonArcher]

I was utterly shocked when Doyle died, as I was just starting to like the character. Even more shocked when I found out what happened to Glenn Quin.

Andy Hallet's death, though... I'm still feeling the after effects of that. To think that Lorne is gone... Well, that's hard to fathom.

 

[species5618]

Doyle was great, though I think it would have been fascinating to see where the show would have went had the original choice for the 'third' character been cast--Max Perlich as Whistler (the demon from the Buffy episode "Becoming" Parts 1 and 2). Apparently the producers wanted to cast him, Perlich was either unwilling or unavailable, and they went with Quinn.

However, I don't buy Whedon's story that the death of Doyle was planned from the start--I tend to believe it was Quinn's drug problem that hastened his departure from the show.

 

[trekkiebaggio]

At first I found Doyle really annoying then he started to grow and me...and then he died.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I never really cared for him.

One thing I've always wondered though, we he originally supposed to be Whistler?

 

[Hermiod]

I never really cared for him.

One thing I've always wondered though, we he originally supposed to be Whistler?

I believe so, yes, but IIRC Max Perlich wasn't able to commit to a series.

 

[Sakrysta]

However, I don't buy Whedon's story that the death of Doyle was planned from the start--I tend to believe it was Quinn's drug problem that hastened his departure from the show.

I think it was a little of both. I think Joss was always enamored with killing off a regular character early on, just because it's a shocker for the audience. You expect the people in the opening credits to be immune to (literal) character assassination. And I think Quinn's problems provided Joss a way to add real value to his character while also solving a difficult behind-the-scenes problem.

In the commentaries it's mentioned more than once what good friends David and Glenn were, and how affected he and Christian Kane were in the 5th season by the scenes where Lindsey was calling himself "Doyle."

I liked Doyle, but if losing him meant we got Wesley, I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

 

[species5618]

I liked Doyle, but if losing him meant we got Wesley, I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

100% agreed. I loved Wesley's character development from Buffy season 3 to the end of Angel.