"Agent Carter" season one discussion and spoilers

[Forbin]

I don't want to start anything about casting Japanese people in a bad way, but at the time, in WW2, I doubt there would have been anyone on Okinawa that would have given blasting six Japs that might have been surrendering a single thought, much less a second thought. Almost all Japanese soldiers were killed or commited suicide. Japanese were programed to believe that surrendering was worse than death and they really took it out on the Allied POWs. Also, you don't need a rifle to kill (grenades, knives, strangling), anyone leaning over the CO at night, I don't care how many "white flags" they had, is looking to be shot. I think if Thompson didn't get rid of the flag, his CO would have. I don't think anyone would have cared in that situation. And I think Thompson is the only one who does, and that's the point. He didn't say "they had a white flag and I killed them anyway" he said, "after I killed them I saw they had a white flag" That makes a huge difference. But YMMV and so on.

Real world story: My dad was on Saipian, Ie Shima and Okinawa with the 318th Fighter Group. One day he saw a Jap soldier walking toward him with his hands clasped behind his head in a surrender gesture. Well, unfortunately, it had been a standard trick for Jap soldiers to hide a pistol or a grenade behind their heads while pretending to surrender. Dad kept motioning "hands up" with his rifle, but "that Jap kept coming and jabbering at me. So I shot him." In the face. With a Garand. The guy's hands were empty. Dad said he felt bad about that, but they kind of brought it on themselves because of that grenade trick. Dad suffered no disciplinary repercussions.

 

[Silvercrest]

Forbin, galleywest, Marsden: You guys are responsible for Firefly, aren't you?

 

[Forbin]

You guys are responsible for Firefly, aren't you?

I'm pretty sure. Sorry.
Also Space: Above and Beyond, New Amsterdam, Strange Luck, Eerie Indiana...

 

[Captain Craig]

Oh, New Amsterdam that show had promise.
I feel like the new show Forever is New Amsterdam partly reborn in many ways.

 

[Marsden]

I loved Eerie, Indiana.

 

[galleywest]

You guys are responsible for Firefly, aren't you?

I'm pretty sure. Sorry.
Also Space: Above and Beyond, New Amsterdam, Strange Luck, Eerie Indiana...

Aw, crap. Sorry about that. Also Almost Human, The Lone Gunmen, and Brisco County Jr. (which sorta lasted 2 seasons, but still). I may also be responsible for Manimal, Misfits of Science, and Whiz Kids in my childhood.

Oh, New Amsterdam that show had promise.
I feel like the new show Forever is New Amsterdam partly reborn in many ways.

Both Forever and New Amsterdam seem to be based off the Pete Hamill book Forever, though neither credit it. If you like the premise of the shows, you might like the book.

As for our Agent Carter, I'm tempted to stop watching in the hopes that the damage I've done isn't permanent. It may be too late!

Regarding Thompson: I like him a little better for admitting his guilt to Peggy, but not that much. It's what he does from here on out that will show whether or not he wants to be a better person. It's my hope that with the boss now starting to doubt Howard Starks' guilt and with Thompson having more respect for Carter, that this will lead to the turning point I've been waiting for in the next episode.

 

[bbjeg]

You guys are responsible for Firefly, aren't you?

I'm pretty sure. Sorry.

 

[Neroon]

I don't want to start anything about casting Japanese people in a bad way, but at the time, in WW2, I doubt there would have been anyone on Okinawa that would have given blasting six Japs that might have been surrendering a single thought, much less a second thought. Almost all Japanese soldiers were killed or commited suicide. Japanese were programed to believe that surrendering was worse than death and they really took it out on the Allied POWs. Also, you don't need a rifle to kill (grenades, knives, strangling), anyone leaning over the CO at night, I don't care how many "white flags" they had, is looking to be shot. I think if Thompson didn't get rid of the flag, his CO would have. I don't think anyone would have cared in that situation. And I think Thompson is the only one who does, and that's the point. He didn't say "they had a white flag and I killed them anyway" he said, "after I killed them I saw they had a white flag" That makes a huge difference. But YMMV and so on.

Real world story: My dad was on Saipian, Ie Shima and Okinawa with the 318th Fighter Group. One day he saw a Jap soldier walking toward him with his hands clasped behind his head in a surrender gesture. Well, unfortunately, it had been a standard trick for Jap soldiers to hide a pistol or a grenade behind their heads while pretending to surrender. Dad kept motioning "hands up" with his rifle, but "that Jap kept coming and jabbering at me. So I shot him." In the face. With a Garand. The guy's hands were empty. Dad said he felt bad about that, but they kind of brought it on themselves because of that grenade trick. Dad suffered no disciplinary repercussions.

A very interesting and appropriate story to share, Forbin. It brings a real life context to the episode.

However, please avoid using the term "Jap" in the future. These days it is considered derogatory and insulting. In the quote it is understandable, but outside of that, no.

This caution goes for EVERYONE participating here. Use of the term from here on out will result in an infraction.

 

[Forbin]

I don't want to start anything about casting Japanese people in a bad way, but at the time, in WW2, I doubt there would have been anyone on Okinawa that would have given blasting six Japs that might have been surrendering a single thought, much less a second thought. Almost all Japanese soldiers were killed or commited suicide. Japanese were programed to believe that surrendering was worse than death and they really took it out on the Allied POWs. Also, you don't need a rifle to kill (grenades, knives, strangling), anyone leaning over the CO at night, I don't care how many "white flags" they had, is looking to be shot. I think if Thompson didn't get rid of the flag, his CO would have. I don't think anyone would have cared in that situation. And I think Thompson is the only one who does, and that's the point. He didn't say "they had a white flag and I killed them anyway" he said, "after I killed them I saw they had a white flag" That makes a huge difference. But YMMV and so on.

Real world story: My dad was on Saipian, Ie Shima and Okinawa with the 318th Fighter Group. One day he saw a Jap soldier walking toward him with his hands clasped behind his head in a surrender gesture. Well, unfortunately, it had been a standard trick for Jap soldiers to hide a pistol or a grenade behind their heads while pretending to surrender. Dad kept motioning "hands up" with his rifle, but "that Jap kept coming and jabbering at me. So I shot him." In the face. With a Garand. The guy's hands were empty. Dad said he felt bad about that, but they kind of brought it on themselves because of that grenade trick. Dad suffered no disciplinary repercussions.

A very interesting and appropriate story to share, Forbin. It brings a real life context to the episode.

However, please avoid using the term "Jap" in the future. These days it is considered derogatory and insulting. In the quote it is understandable, but outside of that, no.

This caution goes for EVERYONE participating here. Use of the term from here on out will result in an infraction.

I tend to use it when referring to WWII enemy soldiers, probably because I grew up hearing it that way in Dad's war stories (and war movies, and episodes of McHale's navy, etc). I consider them a separate entity from modern people from Japan, whom I unfailingly call "Japanese" as is proper. Come to think of it, I think of the short form more as an abbreviation than a derogatory, with no actual insult intended. I suppose the distinction exists solely in my brain, but there you have it.

 

[Marsden]

This caution goes for EVERYONE participating here. Use of the term from here on out will result in an infraction.

I will comply Alit Neroon.

 

[Silvercrest]

Jarvis and the Chief. Love the line about "three sides".

Knowlege is a three edge sword.

Kosh Naranek, why aren't you the one who made this quote???? As a fanboy, you should be ashamed!

 

[Alidar Jarok]

1. Falling asleep on guard duty. They shoot you for that.

2. Murdering prisoners of war, and especially 6 of them when they're not looking, is not only a crime, but probably a war crime. And the cover up ain't good either.

3. Taking a medal he doesn't deserve... Maybe not today, but in 1946, nine guys drag you out of your bed in the middle of the night and throw you on a bonfire.

Sneaking into the enemy camp while everyone is asleep and leaning over the enemy commanding officer is a good way to get yourself shot regardless of your intentions.

Thompson may have screwed up, but there's still plenty of defense for his actions.

He admitted to Peggy that it didn't happen that way.

Well, no. He admitted that they had a white flag with them that he didn't see. He didn't say whether he made up the entire story (them approaching his commander in the middle of the night) or was only mistaken about their intention.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I seriously doubt that Thompson could have made up the story about the Japanese soldiers approaching the sleeping American soldiers stealthily, because once he started shooting, the Americans would have woken up and the Japanese would have fallen where they were shot. And he was confessing to Peggy, so he had no reason to lie to her about details that would have been on the record.

You don't "sneak surrender". If the Japanese had seriously intended to surrender, they should have attempted to make their presence known while approaching. So one soldier was carrying a white flag...he should have been waving it from at least 100 feet away. The fact that Peggy didn't point any of this out makes me think that it was just bad writing.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, just because one shouldn't sneak surrender doesn't mean one doesn't. It's human behavior to be stupid.

That being said, many Japanese soldiers would pretend to surrender so my guess is he wouldn't have gotten in trouble had he not hid the evidence (may not have gotten rewarded, though). Doesn't mean it's weird for him to feel guilty, though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Remember Anikan telling Padme about how he killed all the Tusken Raiders, especially the women and children, and it got her hot, that she did it to him right there?

The Boss thinks that Jack is playing a long con to get into Peggy's draws.

Maybe that's how courtship used to work?

1. make her feel worthless.

2. Make her feel more worthless.

3. Make her think that you're the only person that can see beyond her worthlessness.

4. Admit failure to amp up her nurturing mothering side.

5. Ask her if she's ever played "Tune in Tokyo"?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Well, just because one shouldn't sneak surrender doesn't mean one doesn't. It's human behavior to be stupid.

That's sort of what I'm saying. They weren't shot because Thompson rushed to judgment, they were shot because they did something very, very stupid.

 

[Turtletrekker]

A fun clip from "A Sin To Err" shows Peggy and Jarvis kicking some ass. Yes, Jarvis kicking some ass!

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq7QZ_eJRGw[/yt]

 

[RJDiogenes]

I may also be responsible for Manimal, Misfits of Science, and Whiz Kids in my childhood.

Well, thank you for that, anyway.

 

[Reverend]

Well, just because one shouldn't sneak surrender doesn't mean one doesn't. It's human behavior to be stupid.

That's sort of what I'm saying. They weren't shot because Thompson rushed to judgment, they were shot because they did something very, very stupid.

I think the take away from this story isn't what was right, what was wrong or whether or not Thompson would have gotten into any trouble or not (most likely not) it's what it says about Thompson as a person.

The whole point is that in his mind, he committed murder, disguised it as a heroic act, was awarded a medal and now feels like an utter coward and a fraud to boot.

Compare that to Sousa who was wounded in the line of duty and when he got home, was applauded out of guilt and pity.

So far this show has been a series of misdirections as is befitting an espionage story and Peggy's relationship with both Sousa and Thompson is probably one of the biggest ones.

 

[DWF]

I would hope now that Thompson might treat Peggy alittle differently in the office now. And Peggy's really been shaken by Howard's betrayal, she hasn't noticed anything strange about her newest neighbor.