A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

[EmoBorg]

Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps. What would help in my opinion, and what is successful right now are standalone episodes/arcs, with an ever growing mistery in the background. Just watch the current successful scripted shows: LOST was a hit, right now Person of Interest, Once Upon a Time, Game of Thrones, Spartacus nearly all of them are presented episodically as stand alone stories, yet all of them has a bigger scope in the background, mostly some unfolding mystery also heavy character development. In my opinion that is what Star Trek should too in a future TV series if they want to be successful, not the dark tone is the important but the composition of the seasons/stories to server not only the episode but the bigger scope too. nuBSG was dark in tone, but it also had all the above.

LOST was not a stand alone episode type of series. You had to follow the whole season in order to understand the storyline. Game of Thrones & Spartacus are also not stand alone episode oriented series. you had to follow the whole season to better appreciate the story line plus Game of Thrones & Spartacus had plenty of violence and nudity to attract more people as well. Person of Interest show that stars that actor who played jesus , does have stand alone episodes but it is more of a cop drama. i never watched Once Upon a Time and hence i cannot comment on that show.

The Walking Dead was really dark and i really liked it.

Star trek was born in the idealism of 1960s. The era we live in now is a post 9/11 world, where the USA even waterboarded enemies for information under george w bush. We need a show that reflects our current times. A darker and conflicted star trek series, where the federation idealism gives way to pragmatic realism. The federation becomes more darker as a result.

 

[Pauln6]

I think I love Star Trek the most when it is at its darkest but I would never want it to be as dark as BSG. B5 had some dark moments too and that is probably more like what I'd prefer.

Soap opera shows have to be careful though. If the ongoing plot is too convoluted, it's too hard for new viewers to come in and pick up the story and casual viewers will drop out, leading to declining numbers. B5's narrative was screwed up because they could not be sure they were going to get a 5th season. Flash Forward was cancelled after one season, so was Odyssey 5, Defying Gravity, etc, all of which had some unreaslised potential and I'm sure there are others. Lost was very lucky that it was able to maintain its momentum.

Joss Whedon seems to be good at maintaining the right balance of stand alone and ongoing. Firefly suffered an early death because the producers hated the show rather than anything that Whedon did wrong. Its numbers were better than Buffy's were during its first season but they didn't have enough faith in the premise.

Deep Space 9 definitely hit a reasonable balance between stand alone and ongoing. However, I think even stand alone should always have one scene in that relates to the ongoing plot. I used to feel a bit cheated if B5 did completely stand alone episodes.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Dark not necessary better.

True, but on most of the channels where Star Trek could survive, shows are expected to be darker than on broadcast, where it can't survive.

So when Star Trek returns to TV, it will most likely be darker, and definitely better, than what we're used to (because cable is also better than broadcast) even if the darkness isn't what's making it better. Causation, not causality.

And I certainly don't expect Deadwood in Space. It won't be that dark, that would be nuts.

Your ideas about the episodes being at least semi-serialized is very likely to turn out to be true, since cable skews more towards serialized drama. Like EmoBorg said, the examples you gave are very serialized (including Once Upon a Time) while Person of Interest is more a traditional CBS cop show and doesn't have any significant genre content. For a new Star Trek series to have any episodic qualities would be bucking the cable trends, but I think being less serialized than normal for cable would be right for it.

If the ongoing plot is too convoluted, it's too hard for new viewers to come in and pick up the story and casual viewers will drop out, leading to declining numbers.

That's a broadcast problem, and Star Trek can't survive on broadcast, so it won't be Star Trek's problem. On cable, heavily serialized shows have no trouble hanging onto viewers (as long as they're good; sucky shows anywhere will lose viewers)

USA has some episodic-skewing shows, but they don't do sci fi. SyFy series also have some episodic qualities, but if they won't even continue BSG or Stargate, why would they do Star Trek? (And why would we want them to? Ugh.) I'm not so sure about TNT, since I only watch Falling Skies, which is heavily serialized. Other cable channels - AMC, FX, HBO, Showtime, Starz - are strongly into serialized drama.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps.

Agreed. One of the things that made Trek so appealing is that it depicted a future that wasn't so dark and dreary, in a time in which the real-world seemed to be headed that way.

And it's not like Trek doesn't deal with some dark subject matter--they usually encounter them on various worlds where they're presented as an allegory. It's just that such things are regarded as things our heroes have overcome rather than be slaves to.

 

[EmoBorg]

Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps.

Agreed. One of the things that made Trek so appealing is that it depicted a future that wasn't so dark and dreary, in a time in which the real-world seemed to be headed that way.

And it's not like Trek doesn't deal with some dark subject matter--they usually encounter them on various worlds where they're presented as an allegory. It's just that such things are regarded as things our heroes have overcome rather than be slaves to.

The original Battlestar Galactica and the reimagined BSG were quite different in tone. The later series was far more darker than the earlier series. I am sure Star Trek can get the same treatment. I am also sure that Star Trek fans like yourself will watch a future star trek series even if it is dark because of the brand name.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps.

Agreed. One of the things that made Trek so appealing is that it depicted a future that wasn't so dark and dreary, in a time in which the real-world seemed to be headed that way.

And it's not like Trek doesn't deal with some dark subject matter--they usually encounter them on various worlds where they're presented as an allegory. It's just that such things are regarded as things our heroes have overcome rather than be slaves to.

The original Battlestar Galactica and the reimagined BSG were quite different in tone. The later series was far more darker than the earlier series. I am sure Star Trek can get the same treatment. I am also sure that Star Trek fans like yourself will watch a future star trek series even if it is dark because of the brand name.

Actually, I wouldn't because I got real sick of nuBSG fairly quickly. Most of the characters started to irritate me and I began wishing they'd all just wipe each other out so the show can be over with. After I realized I was wishing that, I stopped watching.

I'd do the same thing to a Trek series if they went that route.

Trek itself doesn't need to be darker in the sense of the crew being jerks to each other or coming from a devastated society on the verge of collapse as was the case in nuBSG. Those very same things can be done when the crew encounters other civilizations like that.

That doesn't mean that there can't be a couple of characters that have an ongoing love-hate relationship with one another the way Spock and McCoy or Odo and Quark did, however. Trek can still do heavier material without turning it completely into Doomsday Trek or Asshole Trek.

 

[EmoBorg]

Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays. BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays.

It's been that way from the beginning. The only difference is that we get to actually see and hear things that were only implied earlier due to more conservative network censors.

BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.

Baywatch lasted 11 seasons. And all that really means is that not everyone likes darker themed stuff. Presumably, an ideal sci-fi adventure series should have a little bit of everything--moments of both light and dark, humor and tragedy, hope and cynicism...

 

[EmoBorg]

Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays.

It's been that way from the beginning. The only difference is that we get to actually see and hear things that were only implied earlier due to more conservative network censors.

BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.

Baywatch lasted 11 seasons. And all that really means is that not everyone likes darker themed stuff. Presumably, an ideal sci-fi adventure series should have a little bit of everything--moments of both light and dark, humor and tragedy, hope and cynicism...

Baywatch lasted that long because it had women running around in red swimsuits. i certainly don't want to use sex to sell star trek.

I want something that the current generation could relate to, not a utopian world where the federation is the good guys all the time. We need dark themes in star trek.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays.

It's been that way from the beginning. The only difference is that we get to actually see and hear things that were only implied earlier due to more conservative network censors.

BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.

Baywatch lasted 11 seasons. And all that really means is that not everyone likes darker themed stuff. Presumably, an ideal sci-fi adventure series should have a little bit of everything--moments of both light and dark, humor and tragedy, hope and cynicism...

Baywatch lasted that long because it had women running around in red swimsuits.

Baywatch also lasted that long because it was simple escapism, and one that appealed to a wide audience.

i certainly don't want to use sex to sell star trek.

It definitely sold TOS (miniskirt uniforms, Kirk's torn shirts, alien babes in metal bikinis, etc). I don't think there's anything wrong with Trek being a little sexy, but there's been times when it's been handled badly in the more recent Trek shows.

I want something that the current generation could relate to, not a utopian world where the federation is the good guys all the time. We need dark themes in star trek.

Trek has had plenty of dark themes and there have been episodes in which the Federation wasn't always in the right. You don't need to turn Star Trek into nuBSG to tell those kinds of stories.

 

[EmoBorg]

It's been that way from the beginning. The only difference is that we get to actually see and hear things that were only implied earlier due to more conservative network censors.
Baywatch lasted 11 seasons. And all that really means is that not everyone likes darker themed stuff. Presumably, an ideal sci-fi adventure series should have a little bit of everything--moments of both light and dark, humor and tragedy, hope and cynicism...

Baywatch lasted that long because it had women running around in red swimsuits.

Baywatch also lasted that long because it was simple escapism, and one that appealed to a wide audience.

i certainly don't want to use sex to sell star trek.

It definitely sold TOS (miniskirt uniforms, Kirk's torn shirts, alien babes in metal bikinis, etc). I don't think there's anything wrong with Trek being a little sexy, but there's been times when it's been handled badly in the more recent Trek shows.

I want something that the current generation could relate to, not a utopian world where the federation is the good guys all the time. We need dark themes in star trek.

Trek has had plenty of dark themes and there have been episodes in which the Federation wasn't always in the right. You don't need to turn Star Trek into nuBSG to tell those kinds of stories.

The most interesting aspect of nuBSG was humanity fighting aganist her children (the cylons).

In another sci fi series that i really liked ,Babylon 5, one of the series arc was when Earth became a bad guy and the rebel Earth Aillance officers joined up with friendly ailens to combat the Earth Government forces. It was Earth vessels fighting Earth vessels during the Babylon 5 station breakaway from earth and in several other battles after that. That plot was dark especially considering Earth government massacres of humans in rebelious earth colonies.

As i said I earlier, i don't mind another TNG or VOY type of star trek show but i don't think it is possible with today's tv programming. Going the nuBSG way,which was dark, might be a possible way of selling another star trek series to the Cables Channels or even Broadcast TV.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Baywatch lasted that long because it had women running around in red swimsuits.

Baywatch also lasted that long because it was simple escapism, and one that appealed to a wide audience.
It definitely sold TOS (miniskirt uniforms, Kirk's torn shirts, alien babes in metal bikinis, etc). I don't think there's anything wrong with Trek being a little sexy, but there's been times when it's been handled badly in the more recent Trek shows.

I want something that the current generation could relate to, not a utopian world where the federation is the good guys all the time. We need dark themes in star trek.

Trek has had plenty of dark themes and there have been episodes in which the Federation wasn't always in the right. You don't need to turn Star Trek into nuBSG to tell those kinds of stories.

The most interest aspect of nuBSG was humanity fighting aganist her children (the cylons).

Also in Babylon 5, the plot that i really liked was when Earth became a bad guy and the rebel Earth Aillance officers joining up with friendly ailens to combat the Earth Government forces. It was Earth vessels fighting Earth vessels during the babylon 5 station breakaway from earth. That plot was dark especially considering Earth government massacres of Humans in rebelious earth colonies.

As i said I earlier, i don't mind another TNG or VOY type of star trek show but i don't think it is possible with today's tv programming. Going the nuBSG way,which was dark, might be a possible way of selling another star trek series to the Cables Channels or even Broadcast TV.

Actually all that has nothing to do with the selling of a Star Trek TV show.

 

[EmoBorg]

Baywatch also lasted that long because it was simple escapism, and one that appealed to a wide audience.
It definitely sold TOS (miniskirt uniforms, Kirk's torn shirts, alien babes in metal bikinis, etc). I don't think there's anything wrong with Trek being a little sexy, but there's been times when it's been handled badly in the more recent Trek shows.
Trek has had plenty of dark themes and there have been episodes in which the Federation wasn't always in the right. You don't need to turn Star Trek into nuBSG to tell those kinds of stories.

The most interest aspect of nuBSG was humanity fighting aganist her children (the cylons).

Also in Babylon 5, the plot that i really liked was when Earth became a bad guy and the rebel Earth Aillance officers joining up with friendly ailens to combat the Earth Government forces. It was Earth vessels fighting Earth vessels during the babylon 5 station breakaway from earth. That plot was dark especially considering Earth government massacres of Humans in rebelious earth colonies.

As i said I earlier, i don't mind another TNG or VOY type of star trek show but i don't think it is possible with today's tv programming. Going the nuBSG way,which was dark, might be a possible way of selling another star trek series to the Cables Channels or even Broadcast TV.

Actually all that has nothing to do with the selling of a Star Trek TV show.

How would you get a contemporary TV Producer to agree to produce the next star trek show ?
You need a new theme for today's audience. A dark theme will be a good sell.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The most interest aspect of nuBSG was humanity fighting aganist her children (the cylons).

Also in Babylon 5, the plot that i really liked was when Earth became a bad guy and the rebel Earth Aillance officers joining up with friendly ailens to combat the Earth Government forces. It was Earth vessels fighting Earth vessels during the babylon 5 station breakaway from earth. That plot was dark especially considering Earth government massacres of Humans in rebelious earth colonies.

As i said I earlier, i don't mind another TNG or VOY type of star trek show but i don't think it is possible with today's tv programming. Going the nuBSG way,which was dark, might be a possible way of selling another star trek series to the Cables Channels or even Broadcast TV.

Actually all that has nothing to do with the selling of a Star Trek TV show.

How would you get a contemporary TV Producer to agree to produce the next star trek show ?

The same way they've done Star Trek shows and movies in the past, from within Hollywood. Why do you think it'd be any different?

You need a new theme for today's audience. A dark theme will be a good sell.

So will a theme that isn't bleak and depressing, perhaps even more so these days.

 

[EmoBorg]

Actually all that has nothing to do with the selling of a Star Trek TV show.

How would you get a contemporary TV Producer to agree to produce the next star trek show ?

The same way they've done Star Trek shows and movies in the past, from within Hollywood. Why do you think it'd be any different?

You need a new theme for today's audience. A dark theme will be a good sell.

So will a theme that isn't bleak and depressing, perhaps even more so these days.

i don't think TV producers want to produce a light themed sci fi shows nowdays. I wish they would but i don't think so.
A dark themed might make a better sell in our post 9/11 world.

 

[C.E. Evans]

How would you get a contemporary TV Producer to agree to produce the next star trek show ?

The same way they've done Star Trek shows and movies in the past, from within Hollywood. Why do you think it'd be any different?

You need a new theme for today's audience. A dark theme will be a good sell.

So will a theme that isn't bleak and depressing, perhaps even more so these days.

i don't think TV producers want to produce a light themed sci fi shows nowdays. I wish they would but i don't think so.
A dark themed might make a better sell in our post 9/11 world.

Oh, I totally disagree with that. In fact, I think it was the return of fun that made Star Trek XI so successful.

 

[EmoBorg]

The same way they've done Star Trek shows and movies in the past, from within Hollywood. Why do you think it'd be any different?
So will a theme that isn't bleak and depressing, perhaps even more so these days.

i don't think TV producers want to produce a light themed sci fi shows nowdays. I wish they would but i don't think so.
A dark themed might make a better sell in our post 9/11 world.

Oh, I totally disagree with that. In fact, I think it was the return of fun that made Star Trek XI so successful.

Being fun filled on the sliver screen might be good for star trek movies but i don't think a fun filled star trek series will work unless you and your audience consist of those short attention spanned, beer guzzling charlie sheen loving type.

 

[C.E. Evans]

i don't think TV producers want to produce a light themed sci fi shows nowdays. I wish they would but i don't think so.
A dark themed might make a better sell in our post 9/11 world.

Oh, I totally disagree with that. In fact, I think it was the return of fun that made Star Trek XI so successful.

Being fun filled on the sliver screen might be good for star trek movies but i don't think a fun filled star trek series will work unless you and your audience consist of those short attention spanned, beer guzzling charlie sheen loving type.

Naturally, I totally disagree with this as well.

 

[EmoBorg]

Oh, I totally disagree with that. In fact, I think it was the return of fun that made Star Trek XI so successful.

Being fun filled on the sliver screen might be good for star trek movies but i don't think a fun filled star trek series will work unless you and your audience consist of those short attention spanned, beer guzzling charlie sheen loving type.

Naturally, I totally disagree with this as well.

I am sorry. i took you for a person with some taste. i guess i was wrong. I will leave you to your two and a half men then

 

[C.E. Evans]

Being fun filled on the sliver screen might be good for star trek movies but i don't think a fun filled star trek series will work unless you and your audience consist of those short attention spanned, beer guzzling charlie sheen loving type.

Naturally, I totally disagree with this as well.

I am sorry. i took you for a person with some taste. i guess i was wrong. I will leave you to your two and a half men then

I can't help that your idea stinks (to put it as kindly as I can). I just really don't like it at all and I believe it is the worst and unimaginative thing Trek can do. Sorry.