A missed opportunity: Khan vs. Spock
- Thread starter Charles Phipps
- Start date
Spock's not going to waste time arguing with Khan once he sees the threat Khan presents. A cut scene from 'Into Darkness' showed that Ambassador Spock told Kelvin Spock that they defeated Khan by whacking him with a heavy tool (referencing Space Seed). Kelvin Spock then proceeded to do that to Kelvin Khan afterwards. Spock himself probably would think it illogical to do anything other than that. How one would logically assume Spock would fight Khan is exactly what we got.
The "well I took a hammer..." scene was from the gag reel, it was Nimoy having a laugh and never intended to be in the movie.
Even so, presumably offscreen Ambassador Spock did indeed say something similar to Kelvin Spock, as this was indeed how Khan was defeated in Space Seed. Recounting the Battle of the Mutara Nebula would make no sense and be irrelevant to Kelvin Spock. Unless Ambassador Spock reminded him about prefix codes which may have been useful against the USS Vengeance.
Actually, Spock's lesson from his elder self was to "use what he wanted against him" (Kirk's words later describing Spock's use of the torpedoes as a trap), which is exactly what happened in Wrath of Khan. Khan was so obsessed with killing Kirk he fell into his trap in the Mutara Nebula and was defeated.
Likely not on record.
Yeah the Vengeance was "an unregistered Federation vessel" according to Uhura, and came up as "Unknown Vessel" on Enterprise's display graphics.
Are Khan and Spock supposed to be the same strength level?
If not identical, then close enough to make them rather evenly matched.
I've often wondered this.
So if a Vulcan ship had found the Bontany Bay, they'd basically no-sell the augments without much fuss?
So if a Vulcan ship had found the Bontany Bay, they'd basically no-sell the augments without much fuss?
I mean, they (the hypothetical Vulcans) would easily handle Khan and his lot.
It's not always easy to compare brute strength of different humanoid-ish species.
According to Khan in Space Seed, he had five times Kirk's strength.
For comparison with Vulcans, per DS9 Take Me Out To The Holosuite, "A Vulcan has three times the strength of a human." Additionally, "they're faster, too." But that DS9 episode also indicated that Vulcans are not stronger or faster than our Klingon buddy Worf (or genetically-enhanced Bashir!). Yet in TSFS we saw an uninhibited and pain-tormented Vulcan, whose mind was a void, throw a Klingon around like a rag doll.
In ENT, two human augments took on a Klingon crew and won, massacring everybody. I can't remember if they were basically the same as Khan, or if Arik Soong had done additional tinkering on their DNA.
In terms of raw physical strength, it may go in this order: human augments, Klingons (on a good day), Vulcans, baseline humans. Vulcans have the advantage of their highly-developed intellect and rigorous logic, which may have given a Vulcan crew the edge if they had discovered S.S. Botany Bay.
Kor
According to Khan in Space Seed, he had five times Kirk's strength.
For comparison with Vulcans, per DS9 Take Me Out To The Holosuite, "A Vulcan has three times the strength of a human." Additionally, "they're faster, too." But that DS9 episode also indicated that Vulcans are not stronger or faster than our Klingon buddy Worf (or genetically-enhanced Bashir!). Yet in TSFS we saw an uninhibited and pain-tormented Vulcan, whose mind was a void, throw a Klingon around like a rag doll.
In ENT, two human augments took on a Klingon crew and won, massacring everybody. I can't remember if they were basically the same as Khan, or if Arik Soong had done additional tinkering on their DNA.
In terms of raw physical strength, it may go in this order: human augments, Klingons (on a good day), Vulcans, baseline humans. Vulcans have the advantage of their highly-developed intellect and rigorous logic, which may have given a Vulcan crew the edge if they had discovered S.S. Botany Bay.
Kor
It was his first day!
And emotionally compromised to boot.
Also following the orders he was given, which would be a very Spock thing to do throughout much of the original TV series.We must regather with the fleet!
In the Prime timeline, Spock learning to improvise or speak ambiguously only came after long exposure to Kirk's methods. I'm not sure anything substantially different should have been expected from this Spock at this time (whether compromised or no.)
