Gay Hollywood

[Gryffindorian]

No one has the right to force him out of the closet, though. Frankly, I don't care if he's gay or not because I think he's an amazing actor. (Frankly, I'm more bothered by his -admitted- past drug use and rumors that he still uses- but that's more of a 'I don't want him to die or wreck his brain' thing.) But after 20 years in the business he's finally "made it", and being openly gay would ruin that. It's not right or fair, but that's Hollywood.

"Blatantly denying it" is offensive to you? Too bad. You don't get to make any choices for him. It's his life.

I can see you're a big fan of his. That aside, you're right - it's his life. But it doesn't change who he is. It doesn't offend me as much as I find it ludicrous for a person to say "I'm not Asian" or "I'm not Jewish" or "I'm not a woman" or "I'm not a particle physicist" when he/she happens to be one or two or all of the above!

And how do you know any of these so-called in the closet celebs are actually gay?

At this point, I'm not saying he is and I'm not saying he isn't gay. I'm basing my assumption on a blog that was posted about Renner hopping around some gay bars in Thailand and the Philippines while filming Bourne Legacy. But ... I'm of the belief that certain things you read on-line or see on television should be taken with a grain of salt. If Mr. Renner is in fact gay (I speak in the indicative mood, not subjunctive, because we don't know for sure), isn't it a shame for him to deny that side of his identity?

 

[DS9Continuing]

I myself love both genders, but never told anyone until now. Am I ashamed of that? Nope. I just don't see the point in divulging that detail about myself.

But my question then is, "Why wouldn't you?" What is it that's stopping you from being open about that, if it's not shame?

Honestly, I have no patience with forcibly or subtly "outing" anyone. I can't think of a more personal, sacrosanct issue than one's sexual identity.

I thoroughly disagree. To my mind, one's sexual identity is nothing special, an entirely neutral fact about one's self that is no more noteworthy than eye colour or shoe size. To give it any more weight than that is to make more of a big deal of it than it actually is.

While I would not support forcing someone out of the closet against their will (unless they are actively working against LGBT interests while in there), my argument would simply be as above - "Why wouldn't you come out?" Why not acknowledge this entirely neutral fact about yourself? To do otherwise is taking up energy that could be better put to use elsewhere in your life.

You (the general "you") get to decide the sexual identity of exactly one person -- yourself. If Tom Cruise is attracted to men more than/rather than women, well, that's between him and his wife. He doesn't owe a statement one way or the other to anyone.

I don't believe anyone is trying to decide anything for anyone. I just believe that a person should come out, for their own mental wellbeing if nothing else. The closet kills. As for the Tom Cruise example, no, he doesn't owe anyone anything. He doesn't have to come out if he doesn't want.

But to actively sue someone for defamation for claiming it? That's going too far, and reinforces the image that there is something wrong with being gay. In fact I believe there is now legal precedent that courts will no longer allow such a case to proceed at all, because they accept that to say that someone is gay is not a defamation or a slur.

lvsxy808, I didn't read the part about Chace Crawford, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was. Again, I'm basing this on a hunch.

Maybe I'm mixing a couple of different news stories up. But I definitely read something recently that talked about the reporter happening upon "a well known CW actor" enjoying a romantic dinner with another handsome young man, who upon recognising the reporter gave him a dirty look as if to say "Don't you dare report this." And in the very next paragraph, after a quote from Lance Bass to the effect of "People make fun of you more for being in the closet these days than they do for being gay," the reporter wrote "If Chace Crawford is actually gay - and I'm not saying he is or he isn't - he would do well to take that advice to heart." Which was in effect outing Chace Crawford.

And like you, I would have no trouble believing it. Like Zac Efron, he's one of those people who surely just has to be gay, surely, for the universe to make any kind of sense.

I think in the cases of Queen Latifah and Jodie Foster, the references to their sexual orientation were initially ambiguous. Jodie thanked her "partner," but at the time people didn't know whether the partner was a he or a she. Latifah mentioned she was glad "to be with her people" during a Pride celebration but didn't verbally acknowledge and say it out loud.

In fact, after that Pride concert, Latifah's PR people put out a statement that "No announcement about my client's sexual orientation should be inferred from that phrase." So either Latifah decided she wasn't quite ready to come out, or her agent didn't even understand that she was trying to come out in the new non-coming-out style, and instinctively moved to cover her ass. A little bit sad either way. What's the big deal? We all pretty much know already.

But after 20 years in the business he's finally "made it", and being openly gay would ruin that. It's not right or fair, but that's Hollywood.

This thread is replete with examples of people who disprove that. Being openly gay does not ruin one's career anymore. Neil Patrick Harris, John Barrowman, Zachary Quinto, Ian McKellen, ad nauseam. People who think it does - actors, agents, publicists - and thereby refuse to come out are working off an obsolete model, and perpetuating this negative image of gay people. The TV-and-movie viewing public has proven now that they can handle it without freaking out. There will always be people who claim it's the apocalypse and this filth should be kept off our screens ("Think of the children!") but fewer and fewer are paying any attention to their paranoid rantings.

It doesn't offend me as much as I find it ludicrous for a person to say "I'm not Asian" or "I'm not Jewish" or "I'm not a woman" or "I'm not a particle physicist" when he/she happens to be one or two or all of the above!

<snip>

If Mr. Renner is in fact gay (I speak in the indicative mood, not subjunctive, because we don't know for sure), isn't it a shame for him to deny that side of his identity?

Yes it is, especially since he was pretty much openly gay beforehand. He was basically in this "glass closet," and instead of smashing the glass and breathing freely, has chosen to smear the glass with his own faeces and hide behind it.

</ end delightful metaphor>

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[Amaris]

I myself love both genders, but never told anyone until now. Am I ashamed of that? Nope. I just don't see the point in divulging that detail about myself.

But my question then is, "Why wouldn't you?" What is it that's stopping you from being open about that, if it's not shame?

Family. Livelihood. Maintaining physical integrity. Depending on where you live, coming out can be a death sentence, and even if you don't live in such extreme areas, it can still be bad enough to get you cut off from family, and while that may be okay with you, for some, family is all they've had. If not family, then livelihood. In many parts of the U.S., you can still be fired if it is found you are gay. Maintaining physical integrity can be important. Who wants an arm broken? An eye blackened? Lost teeth? Just because they admitted to liking the same, or both, genders. While we're rapidly advancing, as a society, there are still places you don't want to be, and things you don't want to say about yourself, lest you eat a bullet or a fist. It's less about shame, and more about a complete and utter disruption of one's life.

 

[DS9Continuing]

All very true, and you're right that I overlooked that. I shouldn't have. I tend to forget that I've led a fairly sheltered life in that regard.

But still... surely that's only a reason to delay, not to never ever do it at all. Get yourself into a place or situation where that will no longer be the case, otherwise you'll always being living under that constant threat.

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[Amaris]

All very true, and you're right that I overlooked that. I shouldn't have. I tend to forget that I've led a fairly sheltered life in that regard.

But still... surely that's only a reason to delay, not to never ever do it at all. Get yourself into a place or situation where that will no longer be the case, otherwise you'll always being living under that constant threat.

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I can't really speak for everyone on when they should come out, though I agree that keeping oneself locked down must be emotionally painful. I know that keeping my self locked down was so stressful that I'm rather surprised it didn't cause a heart attack. At the same time, I would have risked it considering the area in which I live. So while I hate the idea that one covers their true self their whole life (it would be nothing short of emotional asphyxiation), I can't really give a good reason for not delaying in much of our current climate. Still, I know what you mean, and the idea that I would never be able to openly love another and receive that love in return, just makes me want to cry. It's abhorrent, and it makes me angry toward all of those who would try to force someone to hide their true self.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Also, we should bear in mind that that section I quoted from Vorta referred to a "real" person. This thread has been mostly discussing highly paid, massively famous Hollywood actors, and I find it very difficult to believe that they would suffer violence or disinheritance by coming out. Perhaps some loss of business - perhaps - but by risking that and coming out, they help to normalise alternate sexualities so that the "real" people might not get beaten up as much.

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[Amaris]

Also, we should bear in mind that that section I quoted from Vorta referred to a "real" person. This thread has been mostly discussing highly paid, massively famous Hollywood actors, and I find it very difficult to believe that they would suffer violence or disinheritance by coming out. Perhaps some loss of business - perhaps - but by risking that and coming out, they help to normalise alternate sexualities so that the "real" people might not get beaten up as much.

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Well, actors are real people, it's just that due to their financial and popular influence, they're more insulated against negative consequences. I do like the idea of celebrities softening the impact by working to make it feel more normal for society in general, but then again, it's a double edged sword in that there will be the mindset that celebrities aren't "real people", and that they're just a part of that liberal bastion of "Hollyweird".

 

[Vorta]

I myself love both genders, but never told anyone until now. Am I ashamed of that? Nope. I just don't see the point in divulging that detail about myself.

But my question then is, "Why wouldn't you?" What is it that's stopping you from being open about that, if it's not shame?

Family. Livelihood. Maintaining physical integrity. Depending on where you live, coming out can be a death sentence, and even if you don't live in such extreme areas, it can still be bad enough to get you cut off from family, and while that may be okay with you, for some, family is all they've had. If not family, then livelihood. In many parts of the U.S., you can still be fired if it is found you are gay. Maintaining physical integrity can be important. Who wants an arm broken? An eye blackened? Lost teeth? Just because they admitted to liking the same, or both, genders. While we're rapidly advancing, as a society, there are still places you don't want to be, and things you don't want to say about yourself, lest you eat a bullet or a fist. It's less about shame, and more about a complete and utter disruption of one's life.

While I prefer J's answer, here's mine.
26/female/CONSERVATIVE! I grew up in a super Religious household, going to church every single Sunday and Wednesday. The only book I was allowed to read was the Bible until I was about 12 or 13 years old. And funny enough, Am I Blue? happened to be the first book I ever read. (If you don't know what I'm referring to...http://www.amazon.com/Am-Blue-Coming-Out-Silence/dp/0064405877)
I also went to a private Catholic school. And my mother once told me, "If I ever found out that you were gay, I would stop loving you right then and there. So, if you are, tell me now so I can disown you and get on with my life."
Yes, I've made some snide remarks on here in the past(since you all seem to know who I am now), and for that I sincerely apologize. I have spent my entire life being in complete denial about who I really am. I have fought my urges with tears and anger, but no matter what I do, at the end of the day, they are still there. And no amount of "therapy" or "Bible study" will get rid of them. Even though I'm told how wrong they are on a daily basis. It's gotten to the point where I don't even know what my own opinion on the matter is. All I know is that, male, female....I love both. Have sexual thoughts about both, and I'm so tired of hiding....

 

[DS9Continuing]

I also went to a private Catholic school. And my mother once told me, "If I ever found out that you were gay, I would stop loving you right then and there. So, if you are, tell me now so I can disown you and get on with my life."

Well, there's clearly plenty of material here to make a whole other thread.

But as a person who has clearly led a very different life to you, I have to say that my instant, instinctive reaction to somebody saying that to me would be, "Fuck you then. If that's how you feel, I don't want you in my life. So yeah, I'm gay. Bye, bigot." And it would be their loss.

Now, as I say, I realise that that's coming from someone with a very different upbringing, so I don't for a moment pretend to understand how it feels for you. But I just cannot get my head around the idea that any parent would say that to their child. What a horrible, horrible thing to say.

It's things like this that convince me religion has done nothing but evil to this world. But that's a whole other other thread.

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[Vorta]

I also went to a private Catholic school. And my mother once told me, "If I ever found out that you were gay, I would stop loving you right then and there. So, if you are, tell me now so I can disown you and get on with my life."

Well, there's clearly plenty of material here to make a whole other thread.

But as a person who has clearly led a very different life to you, I have to say that my instant, instinctive reaction to somebody saying that to me would be, "Fuck you then. If that's how you feel, I don't want you in my life. So yeah, I'm gay. Bye, bigot." And it would be their loss.

Now, as I say, I realise that that's coming from someone with a very different upbringing, so I don't for a moment pretend to understand how it feels for you. But I just cannot get my head around the idea that any parent would say that to their child. What a horrible, horrible thing to say.

It's things like this that convince me religion has done nothing but evil to this world. But that's a whole other other thread.

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Maybe I should save my response for another thread then. HaHa.

Yes, it's a horrible thing to say to a child, but not if you grew up in my house.

 

[DS9Continuing]

I certainly don't mean to offend, and I don't want to argue. Just saying what my honest response would be. Feel free to PM me if you want.

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[Vorta]

I certainly don't mean to offend, and I don't want to argue. Just saying what my honest response would be. Feel free to PM me if you want.

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Ohh..no, no, no. I'm sorry, that came off completely wrong. I completely agree that it is a horrible thing to say. I just meant that if you knew my mother, you'd know that was one of the kinder things that she's said to me. So sorry for the confusion.

 

[DS9Continuing]

No prob.

So... how's about them gays in Hollywood, eh? Filthy buggers.

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[Vorta]

No prob.

So... how's about them gays in Hollywood, eh? Filthy buggers.

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Um, I guess? Not sure what you're getting at.

(I will forever love Neil Patrick Harris! )

 

[DS9Continuing]

Just trying to bring it back on topic.

Stephen Colbert does a good bit on Neil Patrick Harris

“I find you a threat. You're the biggest single threat of all: you’re a gay person I like. Your threat is that you make being gay not seem threatening. .. it’s almost as if your happiness does not take my happiness away."

 

[Gryffindorian]

I myself love both genders, but never told anyone until now. Am I ashamed of that? Nope. I just don't see the point in divulging that detail about myself.

But my question then is, "Why wouldn't you?" What is it that's stopping you from being open about that, if it's not shame?

Family. Livelihood. Maintaining physical integrity. Depending on where you live, coming out can be a death sentence, and even if you don't live in such extreme areas, it can still be bad enough to get you cut off from family, and while that may be okay with you, for some, family is all they've had. If not family, then livelihood. In many parts of the U.S., you can still be fired if it is found you are gay. Maintaining physical integrity can be important. Who wants an arm broken? An eye blackened? Lost teeth? Just because they admitted to liking the same, or both, genders. While we're rapidly advancing, as a society, there are still places you don't want to be, and things you don't want to say about yourself, lest you eat a bullet or a fist. It's less about shame, and more about a complete and utter disruption of one's life.

This. I think in many cases, the "don't ask, don't tell policy" still works, and some people just leave it at that.

If you're a celebrity or a public figure, the rules may be different, though. If you don't want to disclose your sexual identity, fine. What I'm hearing from lvsxy808 is that Jeremy Renner was out once and but decided to get back in the closet. That, to me, isn't even being in a glass closet, per se. Denial is not the same as nondisclosure.

 

[Kira's Mom]

Is there proof that Renner was out before? He was living with a girlfriend for four years, they split right around the time Hurt Locker came out.

For all anyone knows, he could be bisexual.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Is there proof that Renner was out before? He was living with a girlfriend for four years, they split right around the time Hurt Locker came out.

For all anyone knows, he could be bisexual.

Maybe he is. Who knows? It doesn't matter to me; he's a fine actor.

 

[Kira's Mom]

Exactly. And it's none of my business anyway.

 

[OmahaStar]

Is there proof that Renner was out before? He was living with a girlfriend for four years, they split right around the time Hurt Locker came out.

For all anyone knows, he could be bisexual.

Maybe he is. Who knows? It doesn't matter to me; he's a fine actor.

With a fine ass. And fine arms. And ... Sorry, I need to visit Kira's Mommy's tumbler again.