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The Fesarius and the First Federation

Albertese

Commodore
Commodore
Would anyone care to speculate on the First Federation and the Fesarius? Were Balok and the Fesarius the only ship and crew the FF employed or are there a whole fleet of those things? What do you suppose the capabilities and facilities of the Fesarius would be?

Discuss!
 
If it was towing Enterprise somewhere, I don't imagine that single ship is all there is to the First Federation, especially if he is the only crew member.

He described the larger ship as a "complex," which is interesting. I don't know if the whole ship is set up anything like we might expect. It does not necessarily have life support or anything like that throughout its structure. I do expect Fesarius is built for for a peaceful purpose, but its systems, e.g. tractor beam, are high-end by Starfleet standards and allowed it to play a threatening role effectively. I don't know what a ship so big would necessarily be up to; perhaps it gathers and stores resources of some kind or is a refinery ship or something. I don't think it was on a mission of exploration.
 
Perhaps they pulled asteroids back to a central point where they melted them down with a huge array of solar mirrors.

Or they put tanks of water inside the asteroids and heated them to a near liquid state and the steam pressure caused them to inflate then they used them as ships or habitats.

Think large-scale construction and mining operations. Something that big and powerful would have a secondary offensive/defensive application just by virtue of it's brute force.... Like the "Killdozer" from a few years back. (Wiki it)
 
If it was towing Enterprise somewhere, I don't imagine that single ship is all there is to the First Federation, especially if he is the only crew member.

But that could have been just a ruse - and Balok admits that most of his antics were a ruse, including the "engine failure" during the towing. To arrange for that ruse, he needed to be towing Kirk's ship somewhere... Even if nowhere.

Interesting speculation on the purpose of the ship. One might do two extremes here:

- The ship was created solely for show, by a powerful species that doesn't really even need such ships. It serves no practical function.

- The ship is all that remains of the First Federation, and holds either the remaining population in live and awake form, or the hopes of that population in the form of cryopreserved bodies, or embryos, or abstract patterns or the like. It is of relatively primitive make, and thus has to be fairly large to perform its mission of simply sailing forward and trying to find a new home, or at least a safe place in empty space where friendly allies guarantee peace and quiet.

Timo Saloniemi
 
If it was towing Enterprise somewhere, I don't imagine that single ship is all there is to the First Federation, especially if he is the only crew member.

But that could have been just a ruse - and Balok admits that most of his antics were a ruse, including the "engine failure" during the towing. To arrange for that ruse, he needed to be towing Kirk's ship somewhere... Even if nowhere.
...
- The ship is all that remains of the First Federation, and holds either the remaining population in live and awake form, or the hopes of that population in the form of cryopreserved bodies, or embryos, or abstract patterns or the like. It is of relatively primitive make, and thus has to be fairly large to perform its mission of simply sailing forward and trying to find a new home, or at least a safe place in empty space where friendly allies guarantee peace and quiet.

Timo Saloniemi

Interesting. I would also wonder about Balok's "antics"... is it standard operating procedure to try to destroy incoming ships which violate the perimeter marked off by the spinning cube buoys? That's pretty extreme, suggesting a seriously xenophobic society. But I like what you suggest here, that the Fesarius is the last of the First Federation. That's a very interesting take on it that would have never occurred to me. This would almost make the Fesarius into and "Ark" of sorts. Making a nice explanation for the huge ship with only one little guy.

cool...
 
If it was towing Enterprise somewhere, I don't imagine that single ship is all there is to the First Federation, especially if he is the only crew member.
But that could have been just a ruse - and Balok admits that most of his antics were a ruse, including the "engine failure" during the towing. To arrange for that ruse, he needed to be towing Kirk's ship somewhere... Even if nowhere.

Interesting speculation on the purpose of the ship. One might do two extremes here:

- The ship was created solely for show, by a powerful species that doesn't really even need such ships. It serves no practical function.

- The ship is all that remains of the First Federation, and holds either the remaining population in live and awake form, or the hopes of that population in the form of cryopreserved bodies, or embryos, or abstract patterns or the like. It is of relatively primitive make, and thus has to be fairly large to perform its mission of simply sailing forward and trying to find a new home, or at least a safe place in empty space where friendly allies guarantee peace and quiet.

Timo Saloniemi

I wound tend to think more towards the former theory - a ship built for a show of force against hostile species, but the First Federation themselves aren't particularly interested in starships or exploration anymore... just hiding behind their buoys and being weird and drinking tang, er-'tranya.' :rommie:
 
But counldn't the whole First Federation been part of Baloks ruse. Maybe Balok is just some crazy hermit who built a ship for unknown reasons.
 
It is possible, but seems extremely unlikely. It's the product of a sophisticated technology, as was the buoy, and resource-intensive to go by its size. We would not typically question that an advanced civilization with a significant population is responsible for building such things...even if they enjoy puppetry in their interstellar brinksmanship ;)

It's awfully hard to imagine that the buoys are scattered through space wherever and, whenever one detects a foreign ship, he flies the Fesarius to it and assumes the newcomer is hostile. I imagined the buoys deployed in a perimeter of some kind around a system or group of systems and the ruse is applied to invaders who take action against the buoy that indicate they may be dangerous.

Balok's actions are definitely weird the more closely they are examined, but damn, is that a good episode. The dialogues are very thoughtful and technical. Watching it again recently, I had forgotten how great it is. Plus it's fun when Sulu goes, "I knew he would" about nothing. If I had a Trek-related radio show or podcast, whenever there was dead air, I'd just play the clip of Sulu saying "I knew he would."
 
It is possible, but seems extremely unlikely. It's the product of a sophisticated technology, as was the buoy, and resource-intensive to go by its size. We would not typically question that an advanced civilization with a significant population is responsible for building such things...even if they enjoy puppetry in their interstellar brinksmanship ;)

It's awfully hard to imagine that the buoys are scattered through space wherever and, whenever one detects a foreign ship, he flies the Fesarius to it and assumes the newcomer is hostile. I imagined the buoys deployed in a perimeter of some kind around a system or group of systems and the ruse is applied to invaders who take action against the buoy that indicate they may be dangerous.

Balok's actions are definitely weird the more closely they are examined, but damn, is that a good episode. The dialogues are very thoughtful and technical. Watching it again recently, I had forgotten how great it is. Plus it's fun when Sulu goes, "I knew he would" about nothing. If I had a Trek-related radio show or podcast, whenever there was dead air, I'd just play the clip of Sulu saying "I knew he would."

It is a wonderful episode. It was the first TOS ep I had on VHS when I was a kid and I watched it over and over and over. And I agree with your scenario regarding the buoys. Regarding Sulu's 'I knew he would' line, I always thought he was referring to Balok running the clock down to the last minute and not flinching.
 
...Supposedly Balok was to give a final "You Have One Minute, Earthlings!" ominous warning that never made it to to soundtrack.

Was this amended in TOS-R? Or did the new syndication cuts remove the whole line?

Timo Saloniemi
 
I coulda sworn the DVD version has that line in it. I'll have to check. Others may know already.
 
...Supposedly Balok was to give a final "You Have One Minute, Earthlings!" ominous warning that never made it to to soundtrack.

Was this amended in TOS-R? Or did the new syndication cuts remove the whole line?

Timo Saloniemi

I was looking for this, and no, there is no change in the remastered version.
 
Balok's actions are definitely weird the more closely they are examined, but damn, is that a good episode. The dialogues are very thoughtful and technical. Watching it again recently, I had forgotten how great it is. Plus it's fun when Sulu goes, "I knew he would" about nothing. If I had a Trek-related radio show or podcast, whenever there was dead air, I'd just play the clip of Sulu saying "I knew he would."

My favorite line was Bailey's: "Now he's starting a countdown!" I found that surprisingly self-aware for TV dialogue, not to mention hilarious. :)

My notion is that the Fesarius is a city-ship, not the entirety of the First Federation but rather their preferred mode of living.
 
But if it's a city ship then where are all it's citizens? Balok laments of his loneliness and that even an alien's company would be welcome. Plus he states openly that he runs the whole "complex" from his tiny ship. No, one way of another, he was alone on the Fesarius. whether or not that was usual is another question. I guess it could be a city ship that was deserted for some reason...
 
Balok's actions are definitely weird the more closely they are examined, but damn, is that a good episode. The dialogues are very thoughtful and technical. Watching it again recently, I had forgotten how great it is. Plus it's fun when Sulu goes, "I knew he would" about nothing. If I had a Trek-related radio show or podcast, whenever there was dead air, I'd just play the clip of Sulu saying "I knew he would."

My favorite line was Bailey's: "Now he's starting a countdown!" I found that surprisingly self-aware for TV dialogue, not to mention hilarious. :)

My notion is that the Fesarius is a city-ship, not the entirety of the First Federation but rather their preferred mode of living.

The actor who played Bailey did a really good job overall in that episode, IMHO. I was actually sorry he never came back. He did a good portrayal of an inexperienced man cracking under pressure.

And city ship could be believable... the term 'complex' that he uses might be most indicative of what the writer originally intended. Maybe there just aren't that many of Balok's race any more, or maybe they've given up city-ship living and Balok just has border patrol duty. Or maybe they used to explore via city ship but have since given it up.

Incidentally, since they called it the 'First Federation,' does anyone think that the UFP had been thought of yet? I was always under the impression they didn't come up with it til later but the way he emphasizes 'First' also always made me wonder.
 
I thought it was definite that at that point they hadn't nailed down the background at that point, but I could be wrong. I always wondered why they never brought back the Fesarians (for a lack of a better term, plus weakly supported by the Star Charts), if for nothing more than a throwaway reference ("The First Feds agreed to join the war against the Dominion. Yes!").

I recall reading the analysis of a first draft of the Corbomite Maneuver script... man, was it duller than the real episode. Iirc, the twist (Balok's a kid, or looks like one) doesn't happen it it, either.
 
I'll assume you mean the script was dull and the episode was not, since I happen to like it. :p
 
The original script yes, Corbomite's one of my top ten, maybe top five TOS eps. :) My only real criticism is that it's one of the first in a long line of episodes wherein the Enterprise discovers a monstrously powerful force on the borders of Federation space, which we'll never hear from, ever again. -_- See also: Excalbians, Metrons, Organians, Gothosians (or whatever), space amoebae.
 
The original script yes, Corbomite's one of my top ten, maybe top five TOS eps. :) My only real criticism is that it's one of the first in a long line of episodes wherein the Enterprise discovers a monstrously powerful force on the borders of Federation space, which we'll never hear from, ever again. -_- See also: Excalbians, Metrons, Organians, Gothosians (or whatever), space amoebae.

Let's hope they were not literally never heard from again--for then, what happened to poor Bailey? :(

Of those you mentioned, the First Federation appears to be the only one that is known to actually venture out into space on any kind of significant scale, placing their buoys (well, they were mobile, but you know what I mean) and so forth.

The Excalbians appear to have had strange dealings with visitors often enough for there to be "old space legends" about their planet, but they are so alien and appeared to encounter a very wide conceptual gulf in their communications with Kirk and company. I can see the Federation is not likely to visit there again (!), and there's no indication they like to leave their planet, especially as they appear quite comfortable with the manipulation of visitors in pursuit of "the need to know new things."

The Metrons specified they didn't want contact for a long time, and appeared able to conceal their presence from the intruders as well, so with this added to the fact that they appeared to reside in the disputed Gorn border area, it is easy to imagine that there's been no, or minimal, follow-up contact.

The Organians certainly were not burdened by any homegrown version of the Prime Directive and imposed their will on the Federation and Klingons, but also mentioned that the presence of beings like Our Heroes was painful to them. It certainly appears that they desired no further contact. I am willing to bet that the terms to which the Organians subjected both sides lasted for a while and then stopped, after which there was either no Organia there when they went to ask about it, or an area into which they were denied entry.

Gothosians I will take to mean Trelane and his "parents" and such, and considering the fact that the planet was not only likely a construct but also mobile, I don't know if they were necessarily "from" that area or spent a lot of time there. It is believable that they were not encountered again, though they may well have been...anywhere.

As for the "space amoebae" creatures, I do think it was unlikely that there was only one (since they divide), but I am not sure how fast they move. Encounters with them might be rare even if there were a bunch. There was some question that they might be extragalactic in origin. I think Starfleet is able to deal with them now, so even if others were encountered, those were tales of other ships and crews.

It does seem that Federation space might border or encompass a number of planets that don't want contact with outsiders, and some of these appear to be older and more advanced civilizations that either treat the visitors as playthings or zoo exhibits, or are simply waiting for them to attain a higher level of development before what they can proceed with what they consider more meaningful contact. This is part of TOS I liked: the idea that there were some really alien creatures out there and some of them had been around for a really long time, and all the business of warping around and colonizing planets and stuff just seemed totally unimportant to them for one reason or another. TAS had some of this, too. I guess the First Federation was playing this role a little bit, but only as a test.

It is especially interesting to me to think of civilizations like that with which the Federation DID achieve some sort of meaningful contact. The Melkot may qualify. They had strange but advanced tech with which they could have explored space (and may have in the past), but used it to guard their borders as they retreated into isolation. They played with the somewhat-inferior minds of their Federation guests and exposed them to danger, but ultimately decided they were OK after all and appeared to want real diplomatic contact. I have always wondered what it would be like for the Federation to have some "senior partners" like the Melkots or perhaps Antosians, who are ostensibly Federated planets but probably limit their participation to occasional voting and cultural exchange (in the Antosian example, I tend to doubt they would have shared all their knowledge). Or would the refusal to share all knowledge prohibit membership and restrict such a civilization to some sort of associate status?

Hey, the Medusans are extremely alien in form but they appeared to make a real effort to participate fully.

Well, I seem to have gone on a bit, but no harm done. I'm on a TOS kick lately, is the thing.
 
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