Voyager again

[late]

Hi all,
courtesy of Netflix, I am working my way through Voyager again. Tonite we watched The Year from Hell Part 1.

I always thought the series was an odd mix of strength and weakness. Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite series.

But there is some weakness in the casting, and occasionally in the writing. But it does so much so well;
every few years we watch it again.

Too bad they didn't do a Voyager movie.

 

[kimc]

Too bad they didn't do a Voyager movie.

Welcome and amen!

 

[The Borg Queen]

I regard Dark Frontier and Endgame as Voyager "movies". But that's just me.

 

[Cyke101]

I regard Dark Frontier and Endgame as Voyager "movies". But that's just me.

I think, with upgraded CGI and production values, Year of Hell would have been great on the big screen. Oh, and without the reset button ending, but still.

Back to the OP: my problem with Voyager really is just the writing and the show's seeming inability to take true risks. I think the casting was pretty spot-on, though, and some of the Villains of the Week would really make my blood boil (which is always a sign of good acting).

 

[kimc]

I think the casting was pretty spot-on, though, and some of the Villains of the Week would really make my blood boil (which is always a sign of good acting).

I agree. It's amazing to watch how these actors were able to rise above mediocre writing again and again. It's one of the main reasons why I watch.

 

[JayTheTrekkie]

Its great to have another Voyager here and glad you like it so far.

Voyager is a great series to alot of us. So ya, too bad they didn't do a Voyager movie. They could have done one similiar to the relaunch Voyager books...for Homecoming and Further Shore mainly

 

[Akiraprise]

The first two relaunch books are not very good. I haven't read them in awhile, but I remember thinking they were pretty mediocre.

 

[freak]

I've read the "Spirit Walk" books and those are really good. They kept me on my toes every second. However, the second book, "Enemy of my Enemy" was so-so. But I really liked the fact that they did away with Chakotay and Seven in this book.

Anyway, I agree about having a Voyager movie. I really thought they were gonna do that but I guess they decided against it at last minute. Also, I wanted them to do interviews for their most memorable episodes but they didn't do that either. Oh well. And I do agree about YOH. They should have made that a movie without the ending!

 

[smeos]

My biggest problem was the fact that I never really bought that they could travel that far, and be that far from all that they had ever known, and still be the way they were.

Looking back on the series, they were never forced to choose in their own best interests at the expense of someone else. The ship was always clean and working (until it all of a sudden ran out gas in that terrible episode with the demon planet), it never showed signs of being beat to hell and the worst problem that they ever faced was not having enough power to run the replicators, which seemed to exist only to give Neelix something to do aside from annoying the hell out of me.

I'm not saying that I would have wanted Voyager to look like the Equinox, but somewhere in between would have been nice.

Endgame was terrible. Putting aside the time travel plot and the final injustice done to the Borg, they just ended the series as soon as they got home. No emotional impact whatsoever.

And they ruined the Borg. The most terrifying threat in probably the history of television (at least sci-fi), which beat the entirety of Starfleet against the ropes on two occasions, and they couldn't even destroy one (small) ship with no reinforcements and a finite supply of weaponry and crewmembers.

Seven of Nine was awful as well. Not too bad when she started, but I was really getting tired of her by Season 6 onward. Every episode with her was always the same. Oh, look! Seven's awkward and doesn't know how to be a person! That's okay, because Janeway can teach her a life lesson! Don't even get me started on Samantha Wilder or the Borg kids, either. I hate them so much it's not even funny.

Overall, Voyager wasn't a bad show, per se. With a few changes, it could have been the best series of them all. My problems aren't so much with the acting or the characters, but more with the writing and the fact that Voyager never lived up to it's potential IMHO.

 

[Warp Coil]

Voyager had a lot of great potential, and had some really good characters. The problem was that the show never properly explored the premise, or gave most of the characters anything significant to do. Every time I catch an rerun on Spike, I get disappointed because I see so much wasted potential there. The series could have done a lot of really interesting things, but in the end, the writing was weak, the continuity was poor, and there were a lot of missed opportunities.

The VOY relaunch novels didn't make things better, and went in the completely wrong direction. Thankfully, they are finally switching to a different author who may actually do something more interesting with the series.

 

[Akiraprise]

And they ruined the Borg. The most terrifying threat in probably the history of television (at least sci-fi), which beat the entirety of Starfleet against the ropes on two occasions, and they couldn't even destroy one (small) ship with no reinforcements and a finite supply of weaponry and crewmembers.

If I remember correctly the only reason why Voyager wasn't assimilated was because Seven was on board. The Queen loved Seven, and because Seven was fond of the Voyager crew the Queen made the Borg leave the ship alone. She told this to Seven in Endgame.

 

[kimc]

Looking back on the series, they were never forced to choose in their own best interests at the expense of someone else.

No one can FORCE you to choose your own best interests - that's always a choice you can make or not make. In the very first episode Janeway did have to choose between protecting the Ocampa and sending Voyager home. She wasn't forced into either option.

In "Endgame" the older Janeway made the choice to put her personal interests ahead of the timeline. No one forced her into that choice either.

 

[smeos]

If I remember correctly the only reason why Voyager wasn't assimilated was because Seven was on board. The Queen loved Seven, and because Seven was fond of the Voyager crew the Queen made the Borg leave the ship alone. She told this to Seven in Endgame.

So they're the most powerful and feared race in the galaxy . . . unless they like you? Sorry, that just strikes me as a lazy excuse dreamed up at the last minute by the writers.

That was the whole point of the Borg. No mercy. No pity. No fear. Relentless personified. Resistance is Futile.

 

[smeos]

No one can FORCE you to choose your own best interests - that's always a choice you can make or not make. In the very first episode Janeway did have to choose between protecting the Ocampa and sending Voyager home. She wasn't forced into either option.

In "Endgame" the older Janeway made the choice to put her personal interests ahead of the timeline. No one forced her into that choice either.

Sorry, I misspoke. I'm not talking about making ethical choices, right or wrong. I was referring more to the fact that there was never any episode where they were, say, so low on supplies and stuck in the middle of nowhere that they had to steal or perhaps even trade (advanced) technology for the supplies they needed. Or they had to suffer great personal or professional loss in order to AVOID doing the easy thing.

In short, they got to come all that way without ever really doing anything to get their hands dirty or to keep them up at night . . . and I don't buy it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But the change in actress playing the Queen was probably evidence that Endgame occurred in a parallel time line to every other adventure Voyager had with the Borg. Using that Queen probably means that Admiral Janeway killed her before she could travel back in time at some point in the future to encounter Picard during First Contact and then the 22nd century where she advanced Borg tech making sevens existence possible if we're to believe Year of Hell.

I'm starting to wish Admiral janeway was just pottering about on a Holodeck in Endgame.

 

[kimc]

No one can FORCE you to choose your own best interests - that's always a choice you can make or not make. In the very first episode Janeway did have to choose between protecting the Ocampa and sending Voyager home. She wasn't forced into either option.

In "Endgame" the older Janeway made the choice to put her personal interests ahead of the timeline. No one forced her into that choice either.

Sorry, I misspoke. I'm not talking about making ethical choices, right or wrong. I was referring more to the fact that there was never any episode where they were, say, so low on supplies and stuck in the middle of nowhere that they had to steal or perhaps even trade (advanced) technology for the supplies they needed. Or they had to suffer great personal or professional loss in order to AVOID doing the easy thing.

In short, they got to come all that way without ever really doing anything to get their hands dirty or to keep them up at night . . . and I don't buy it.

I see what you mean now. They came close in "Year of Hell" but the reset button was hit at the end of the episode.

 

[kimc]

I'm starting to wish Admiral janeway was just pottering about on a Holodeck in Endgame.

You and me both!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sorry, I misspoke. I'm not talking about making ethical choices, right or wrong. I was referring more to the fact that there was never any episode where they were, say, so low on supplies and stuck in the middle of nowhere that they had to steal or perhaps even trade (advanced) technology for the supplies they needed. Or they had to suffer great personal or professional loss in order to AVOID doing the easy thing.

In short, they got to come all that way without ever really doing anything to get their hands dirty or to keep them up at night . . . and I don't buy it.

I see what you mean now. They came close in "Year of Hell" but the reset button was hit at the end of the episode.

Janeway said that her old timeline wasn't affected by the changes she made. It was all still there and every thing remained as fraked up as ever. None of the changes she made helped her friends. She had just created a duplicate/divergent timeline with duplicates of her friends who were easier help out of their moody blues than those in her sideways future. Surely her friends in the sideways future needed her help as a friend and mother and her runner only made them feel hurt and abandoned?

Pure escapism.

Utter selfishness.

She abandoned her friends in need.

 

[smeos]

I see what you mean now. They came close in "Year of Hell" but the reset button was hit at the end of the episode.

That's why I liked DS9 better. I can see why people accuse it of not being "real Trek" but for me, flawed people trying to do the right thing and sometimes failing is a lot more dramatically satisfying than perfect people always doing the right thing.

 

[Akiraprise]

If I remember correctly the only reason why Voyager wasn't assimilated was because Seven was on board. The Queen loved Seven, and because Seven was fond of the Voyager crew the Queen made the Borg leave the ship alone. She told this to Seven in Endgame.

So they're the most powerful and feared race in the galaxy . . . unless they like you? Sorry, that just strikes me as a lazy excuse dreamed up at the last minute by the writers.

That was the whole point of the Borg. No mercy. No pity. No fear. Relentless personified. Resistance is Futile.

The Borg Queen liked Locutus in BOBW. She also liked Data in FC. She liked Seven in VOY. The Queen seems to like having a few pets to play with. What the Queen likes, the Borg like. The relentless Borg you speak of ended about the time Hugh was introduced in TNG. Which is fine by me. I like a little depth to my villains.