I agree with this. Also, I think early color TVs had more subdued colors, and it made sense to stick to primary colors where they could, hence the red panels on the bridge.
Yes the Command Shirts were Yellow
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
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I agree with this. Also, I think early color TVs had more subdued colors, and it made sense to stick to primary colors where they could, hence the red panels on the bridge.
Costuming notes for George Takei that went up on Heritage Auctions, courtesy of Maurice at FactTrek. The people working on the show, including Justman in internal memos, considered the uniforms green.
Which makes sense, especially for early color TV - the primary colors of light are red, blue, and green.
This is for the series uniforms, obviously, not the pilot - Takei wore blue, there.
As far as determining what the costumers intended and chose to do, the question is settled by the already noted fact that other versions of the command uniforms - dress and wraparound - were green.
Which makes sense, especially for early color TV - the primary colors of light are red, blue, and green.
This is for the series uniforms, obviously, not the pilot - Takei wore blue, there.
As far as determining what the costumers intended and chose to do, the question is settled by the already noted fact that other versions of the command uniforms - dress and wraparound - were green.
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Hmm...really? Speaking of being green, not one of the Trek producers reviewing the "Vina" test footage with Majel Barrett are reported to have caught on to what might be going awry at the development lab - that had to be explained to them by the technicians themselves when the producers drew their attention to the problem.
In fact, many of the designers - if not the film crews - were TV people lacking extensive feature film backgrounds and consequently may not have been very experienced in designing for color. Color broadcasts were barely past being a novelty when Trek was first conceived - only one network of three broadcast substantial color content in prime time, in a country where the overwhelming majority of TVs were black-and-white. Almost all television programs had been recorded or filmed in black-and-white for decades, for reasons of cost and practicality.
Jefferies reportedly carried a filtered lens on set to help him determine how the colors he selected might register in black-and-white.
The color viewed through a camera lens on set was different than what would eventually be seen at the point of reception when broadcast. In the case of filmed series, there was the color-grading process in post to take into account, then the degradation of the analog image actually broadcast. Video broadcasts (not Trek, obviously) were particularly challenging, since the images seen in-studio on monitors cabled directly to the cameras were virtually interference-free and of much higher quality than what viewers at home would see.
Fabric selection played a part - when the costumes were made of satin, as in the dress uniforms, the command color registered clearly as pale green. The pile tufts of the velour reflected light differently depending in part on angle of incidence to camera normal. And having decided on velour, the production was probably limited to off-the-shelf color selection. Even in 1987, the dyeing budget for the first year of TNG was insufficient to the show's needs (per Theiss); it's unlikely that at the beginning TOS could afford much custom fabric coloring if any at all.
![duo_kirk_spock18[1].jpg](https://www.trekbbs.com/data/attachments/39/39220-32d6c2710a327cf998b1416f32b9c0c9.jpg "duo_kirk_spock18[1].jpg")
![multiple_cast04[1].jpg](https://www.trekbbs.com/data/attachments/39/39221-7fb65d68462371398df8a83e0a669915.jpg "multiple_cast04[1].jpg")
![pKfDc-1465420634-920-blog-trek_bloopers_main_1200[1].jpg](https://www.trekbbs.com/data/attachments/39/39222-66cda2fe5689e8364685fa41ad1c94d4.jpg "pKfDc-1465420634-920-blog-trek_bloopers_main_1200[1].jpg")
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I also recall reading over the years in a couple of thread talking about the yellow/green command shirt, that the colors also changed from wage/wash. So what you may see live in person today, may not necessarily be what you saw during filming pre-wash(es).
It's worth mentioning that when color grading film the goal is usually to achieve the most natural and attractive skin tones on the lead performers. And, depending upon the lights and film used, guess what shades are most likely to be toned down and balanced out in the process?
Also, FWIW, Theiss is quoted in a 1988 article as saying:
Also, FWIW, Theiss is quoted in a 1988 article as saying:
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The one time that I spoke with Theiss he referred to the command shirts as "Avocado." He called the red "Apple," and for the life of me I can't remember him saying anything about the blue outfits...
Maybe it was "balls"?
But the color you call "green" here for the sweaters in the pilots is the color that was used in the series for the "gold" t-shirts. I've read that the color worn by engineers in the pilots was called "gold," by some around the studio, but it is not the same "gold" as the color that was used for "gold" for the series.
To put it another way, Kirk's shirt is the same color in the 2nd pilot as in the series. If it is to be called "green" in the pilots, then it could be called the same "green" in the series.
Firstly, I have a feeling this may be correct.
Secondly, I think this is the reason that the word "gold" is a good choice to describe this color (even though I said above it could also be called green). Yellow and green could both be used, but sometimes it looks like either one, so "gold" could be used generically here to avoid the argument of whether to call it "yellow" or green."
When you add in the fact that, including TNG, DS9 and Voyager, the operations uniforms came in colors that were "greener" "more orange" and "actually yellow" over time, just calling this color "gold" might be a way in-universe to avoid debates on what color it really is supposed to be
The designer's comments aren't canon.
They're authoritative and factual. Fans can - and will - argue over their fictional "canon" until the end of time, will never agree and still none it it will be real.
The shirts, according to everyone working on the show who described them, were green.
In Catspaw, Chekov said, "I can do it, sir. I'm not that green."
I'll bet that was an in-joke, because they were aware that the shirts were trending gold on TV, while their in person experience was mostly green.
I'll bet that was an in-joke, because they were aware that the shirts were trending gold on TV, while their in person experience was mostly green.
Do you have a link for that?Apparently an early draft for Trials and Tribbleations had the temporal guys ask Sisko what the real color was, and Sisko said green
Dulmer & Lucsly: We hate that.Apparently an early draft for Trials and Tribbleations had the temporal guys ask Sisko what the real color was, and Sisko said green
So the answer to the question in real life is green. The answer to the question in canon is yellow/gold.
My current understanding is that season 3's polyester command tunics are more green in real life than season 1+2 velour costumes, but they were dyed this way to appear to be the exact same shade of gold on screen. So the real life answer is 'they got greener' and the in-universe answer is 'they stayed gold'.
Also I know this doesn't change anything, but I couldn't resist trying to neutralise the colour of those photos from a few posts up (without adjusting the colours separately).
I started by adjusting the colour so the highlights in Shatner's eyes were grey and his collar was black, then tweaked the curves from there to make Nimoy's tunic look closer to how it appears in the show. There's obviously room for improvement, Shatner's tunic is very brown for one thing, but I think this looks a bit more natural overall.
On this image all I did was adjust the colour curves until the chair was gray. It's nice to have something in the photo to use as a reference.
The third image was easiest of all. I just put something green in the shot.
Also I know this doesn't change anything, but I couldn't resist trying to neutralise the colour of those photos from a few posts up (without adjusting the colours separately).
I started by adjusting the colour so the highlights in Shatner's eyes were grey and his collar was black, then tweaked the curves from there to make Nimoy's tunic look closer to how it appears in the show. There's obviously room for improvement, Shatner's tunic is very brown for one thing, but I think this looks a bit more natural overall.
On this image all I did was adjust the colour curves until the chair was gray. It's nice to have something in the photo to use as a reference.
The third image was easiest of all. I just put something green in the shot.
Sorry, but I think it looks decidedly worse.My current understanding is that season 3's polyester command tunics are more green in real life than season 1+2 velour costumes, but they were dyed this way to appear to be the exact same shade of gold on screen. So the real life answer is 'they got greener' and the in-universe answer is 'they stayed gold'.
Also I know this doesn't change anything, but I couldn't resist trying to neutralise the colour of those photos from a few posts up (without adjusting the colours separately).
I started by adjusting the colour so the highlights in Shatner's eyes were grey and his collar was black, then tweaked the curves from there to make Nimoy's tunic look closer to how it appears in the show. There's obviously room for improvement, Shatner's tunic is very brown for one thing, but I think this looks a bit more natural overall.
Part of the brilliance in the selection of the color as it was is that it has life.*
(* - Green is the color of life, after all. Plant life, at least.)
How the color registers differently under different lighting conditions makes it interesting. Trying to stamp out its dynamic, ineffable** qualities is pretty much the worst thing that can be done, to take something intriguing and to box it up, put a lid on it, and file it away as something that can never be anything other than what it is named.
(** - Hey, Data!)
Would I rather have it be something that we can still learn from half a century later, or something that bears no further mention? Given that here we are talking about it, over half a century after the fact, it's not that hard a question.
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I meant the colours overall. Maybe you did too.
To be honest, the more I look at it, the less happy I am with the result, as the skin's too brown and I couldn't reach a point where Spock's and Kirk's tunics were both in anyone's idea of the correct colour range at the same time.
I meant the command tunic color.
To be honest, I didn't understand what was motivating you to "neutralise the colour." By neutralize, I assume you mean adding something complementary. But why would you even want to do exactly that? I may have erroneously assumed that the objective had to do with obtaining what you regarded as more satisfactory rendition of the command tunic color; since that's the topic of the thread, I read that in as default. By making the command tunic browner, neutralizing it made it less green, and my reaction was against that.
Isn't neutralizing the color of the command tunic by definition going to reduce the relative intensity of the green, by increasing the relative intensity of red and blue?
But yes, I also agree about the skin tones.
Shh! Do not let strong comparison data to derail certain ST production myths!
