Wolf 359 Prelude, Parts I and II
- Thread starter Mark_Nguyen
- Start date
Brilliant. Horrifying. And exactly what we need. You can't help but watch over and over again.
One thing these videos have brought up. Where in canon did it ever get said that the U.S.S. Melbourne (NCC-62043) was Admiral Hanson's flagship? BoBW, Part II has gives no indication. And in Emissary, it was the first ship to be destroyed in battle while Hanson was at least around long enough to realise the fight was against Starfleet and attempted a withdrawal. I suppose the way Shelby said "...Melbourne." to Riker in the aftermath could come close but considering how she was aware of Riker's offer to captain the ship and was gunning for his job as first officer, it's likely "...this was the ship you were offered."
Far as I'm aware, only a comic from the VOY run called "Ghosts" indicates Melbourne was Hanson's flagship, and comics are contradictory. But the script says Hanson was using the battle bridge of a Galaxy-class starship for his transmission, and the script would usually be the first place to go for such information anyway. Yes, the "Red Alert" symbol is TMP era -- but that could mean its a Miranda, a Constitution, Oberth, Constellation, Excelsior or any ships in service since the 2270s and still in active or semi active service in 2367 anyway. Perhaps it was a preferential choice of the ship's captain? perhaps he/she/they prefer the TMP style red alerts to the more modern ones?
Sometimes I feel that fanon creep has created a deep trench that has swallowed too many people and they can't get out of it.
One thing these videos have brought up. Where in canon did it ever get said that the U.S.S. Melbourne (NCC-62043) was Admiral Hanson's flagship? BoBW, Part II has gives no indication. And in Emissary, it was the first ship to be destroyed in battle while Hanson was at least around long enough to realise the fight was against Starfleet and attempted a withdrawal. I suppose the way Shelby said "...Melbourne." to Riker in the aftermath could come close but considering how she was aware of Riker's offer to captain the ship and was gunning for his job as first officer, it's likely "...this was the ship you were offered."
Far as I'm aware, only a comic from the VOY run called "Ghosts" indicates Melbourne was Hanson's flagship, and comics are contradictory. But the script says Hanson was using the battle bridge of a Galaxy-class starship for his transmission, and the script would usually be the first place to go for such information anyway. Yes, the "Red Alert" symbol is TMP era -- but that could mean its a Miranda, a Constitution, Oberth, Constellation, Excelsior or any ships in service since the 2270s and still in active or semi active service in 2367 anyway. Perhaps it was a preferential choice of the ship's captain? perhaps he/she/they prefer the TMP style red alerts to the more modern ones?
Sometimes I feel that fanon creep has created a deep trench that has swallowed too many people and they can't get out of it.
Apparently their evidence is on the Excelsior that took Hanson and Shelby to Jouret IV. It was unnamed in BoBW, Part I and referred to in the script as a "transport class" -- the model itself either has the registry of the Hood or Repulse NCC-25?? (in Preludes, Part I Q&A, it is noted that the U.S.S. Columbia was the ship to bring Hanson and Shelby to Jouret IV but the scene wasn't shown). And at that point, the Melbourne's class was unknown. When they did BoBW, Part II, it was a proto-Nebula class. It wasn't until Emissary when it got changed to an Excelsior, which was the first ship to be destroyed at Wolf 359 before the Saratoga. That's their evidence but it wasn't there. And Hanson gives no indication the ship he came aboard was the Melbourne anyway. The distant-like talk of the ship by Hanson and Picard indicates to me personally it wasn't at or near Journet IV. It was really only the VOY comic Ghosts that says it was flagship but since it was destroyed right away, I highly doubt it.
I think fanon has become twisted. The vitriol for this apparent "travesty" is appalling.
That was really well done. Many fans always wanted to see more of the Battle of Wolf 359, and I'll admit, I was curious but didn't need it.
After having seen this, it adds so much more to the horror of that horrific battle. Very impressive and can't wait to see the second part.
After having seen this, it adds so much more to the horror of that horrific battle. Very impressive and can't wait to see the second part.
I liked this if only because it made me seek out upscaled Star Trek: Borg footage. lol
Very interesting. The intense large battles will be interesting, but oddly I'm very interested in seeing alternate takes of the NCC-1701 in the Genesis trio of films. A Phase II Constitution for USS Reliant. The Klingon attack at Ceti Alpha V to depict all the additional damage in Enterprise, and Enterprise surviving to bring Spock to Vulcan (and likely bring home some whales.)
One of the “Myriad Universes” stories in the books had the Enterprise survive TSFS and be the ship in TVH. IIRC, the ship separated at the end when they got back to the present and the probe drained their power, and the saucer ditched into San Francisco Bay. I don’t think it was mentioned in the story, but I like to imagine they converted the recreation deck from TMP to the whale tank in that version. I didn’t want to say anything in the comments to disrupt whatever plans are already going on, but it seems like a pretty spectacular alternative take.
Perhaps Hanson believed that the Borg threat was so uniquely deadly that all nonesssential personnel had to be left behind (in the saucer).
The Dominion? All they can do is kill you. (Several Galaxy-class ships took part in that war, with saucers included.) Borg assimilation would be too dangerous to ignore.
Edit: I wonder who, in-universe, the Auriga was named after. The security officer from "The Entropy Effect", perhaps?
This was exactly why she mentioned it, because it validated Riker’s decision to stay aboard Enterprise, as otherwise he’d now be dead. I’m not sure why some folks started thinking this meant it was the fleet’s flagship.
Although, it wasn’t known to the Federation at the time that assimilation was a thing.
I figured the pause before Shelby mentioned the Melbourne was because Hanson was aboard and if his ship (and his self) were gone then that really indicated that significant hope was lost. Much as, if the E-D had been destroyed, someone else taking note of the ships might have paused before mentioning it.
It made a certain amount of sense to me that if Melbourne was in need of a captain then Hanson might have commanded it while awaiting Riker's decision.
I suppose there's some presumption there, but I wouldn't say it's an unreasonable amount.
Of course, there's also no reason why it can't be both reasons. Both the loss of Hanson and the loss of Riker's potential command.
It made a certain amount of sense to me that if Melbourne was in need of a captain then Hanson might have commanded it while awaiting Riker's decision.
I suppose there's some presumption there, but I wouldn't say it's an unreasonable amount.
Of course, there's also no reason why it can't be both reasons. Both the loss of Hanson and the loss of Riker's potential command.
Yeah, in that story Kruge was killed before the events of TSFS so he wasn't there to start the chain of events to lead to its destruction.
Although I disagree with some of his choices of scenes, JTVFX does some of the best videos out there and usually makes very subtle points of plot problems...like silliness/how of destroying NCC 1701 D!
I read somewhere an interesting idea that there were actually two ships at the battle named Melbourne. One was being decommissioned and it's replacement was finishing test trials. Desprjte for vessels they sent both ships to Wolf 359
The only problematic issue is that they both have the exact same registry. Which is doubly problematic for the Excelsior, as the registry is far too high for that old of a ship.
Fantastic stuff. One thing I would like to throw out there as an idea is for the Doomsday Machine. When they were remastering the episode years ago there was some talk of reimagining the design to better fit the script description of a giant ship bristling with weapons. That would be interesting to see.
Also, DS9 'What you Leave Behind' battle deserves a better battle.
Oh, and how about the storyboarded version of the Generations battle where the Bird of Prey smashes into the back of the D?
Now excuse me while I sit back, put my feet up on the table and wait for all this.