Why the need to crack the whip?

[Danja]

https://trekmovie.com/2021/09/01/st...-kate-mulgrew-taking-over-as-captain-janeway/

When Geneviève Bujold, who was an Academy Award-winning movie actress and an actress of undeniable talent, expressed interest in this role, we were thrilled, and we cast her.

I think that she made an actor’s choice, which is what actors do, about how to approach the character. And I think in her mind, she felt that she was surrounded by a crew of extremely competent people, that she did not need to be a slave driver or a whip wielder or to rise to a certain energy level in order to motivate your crew. They were motivated, they knew their jobs, and they would do it. So she preferred to be the quieter central person in on the crew and simply to let them prove do what they did best. It was a perfectly reasonable choice, and in a real-life situation would probably work extremely well.

But on television in drama, the effect was to make her seem like someone lacking in energy and authority, and you could not imagine that she would have been assigned to be the captain of a starship. The director worked with her to try to get her to infuse more energy into the part. And she was committed to her choice; this was the Janeway that she saw.

Why the need to crack the whip?

On NCIS and CSI: Miami, Gibbs and Caine are perfectly content to let professionals do their job without being a domineering dictator.

Why wasn't Janeway given that same privilege? It comes across as sexist to me.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

https://trekmovie.com/2021/09/01/st...-kate-mulgrew-taking-over-as-captain-janeway/



Why the need to crack the whip?

On NCIS and CSI: Miami, Gibbs and Caine are perfectly content to let professionals do their job without being a domineering dictator.

Why wasn't Janeway given that same privilege? It comes across as sexist to me.

If you've seen the footage of Bujold as Janeway, you'll understand why she was ultimately deemed wrong for the role. Bujold's lack of energy and also lack of chemistry with the other cast members is evident. During some of the action scenes it's like Bujold delivers lines like she is in a period piece or reading a newspaper. Mulgrew was able to provide a balance of Janeway being confident in the abilities in her crew but also vivacious and commanding, which is what the producers were looking for.

 

[Danja]

If you've seen the footage of Bujold as Janeway, you'll understand why she was ultimately deemed wrong for the role. Bujold's lack of energy and also lack of chemistry with the other cast members is evident. During some of the action scenes it's like Bujold delivers lines like she is in a period piece or reading a newspaper. Mulgrew was able to provide a balance of Janeway being confident in the abilities in her crew but also vivacious and commanding, which is what the producers were looking for.

I saw some of the Bujold footage one time.

I suppose if explosions are going off around you, it wouldn't do to stand around and soliloquize.

 

[plynch]

Words were the same, so no whip. Just more energy.

 

[STEPhon IT]

https://trekmovie.com/2021/09/01/st...-kate-mulgrew-taking-over-as-captain-janeway/



Why the need to crack the whip?

On NCIS and CSI: Miami, Gibbs and Caine are perfectly content to let professionals do their job without being a domineering dictator.

Why wasn't Janeway given that same privilege? It comes across as sexist to me.

Because Bujold understood what was written about who Janeway was; a first time Captain who may not have everything all together but in later seasons become the whip snapper or whatever hell Taylor wanted. The choice was right and on point with the premise. AHHHH YES! The premise, the blueprint of the series which the showrunners completely abandoned in their second episode. Feh!

 

[Lynx]

If you've seen the footage of Bujold as Janeway, you'll understand why she was ultimately deemed wrong for the role. Bujold's lack of energy and also lack of chemistry with the other cast members is evident. During some of the action scenes it's like Bujold delivers lines like she is in a period piece or reading a newspaper. Mulgrew was able to provide a balance of Janeway being confident in the abilities in her crew but also vivacious and commanding, which is what the producers were looking for.

I agree with your statement here.

I haven't seen Bujold in anything except those scenes she filmed for Voyager so I can't comment on her acting skills. But I wasn't that impressed with what I saw when it comes to Voyager so I think that those in charge did draw a winning card when Bujold quit and they brought in Mulgrew instead. She really geave life to the character Kathryn Janeway.

But from a Star Trek Universe point of view, there is a Nicole Janeway and there is an explanation to the scenes we saw with Nicole Janeway and as usual, The Kes Website can provide the shocking truth :

Nicole Janeway, who can be found on some Youtube clips instead of Kathryn Janeway is actually Kathryn Janeway's aunt. A sister to Kathryn's father Edward Janeway.

Contrary to most members of the Janeway family, Nicole Janeway weren't interested at all in Starfleet and space exploring. She always considered her brother Edward a crazy fool who should have chosen another career instead of Starfleet.

"Man doesn't belong into space", she often said. "It's utter foolishness to travel around in those metal boxes in such dangerous environment".

When Edwards daughter Kathryn decided to join Starfleet, Nicole was furious. "You are a hopeless, reckless fool", she told Edward Janeway. "But worse is that you have raised your daughter to become one hopeless, reckless fool too", she said. And added, "This will end up in a disaster, believe me!"

Nicole Janeway often expressed her compassion for Kathryn's mother Gretchen. "I really feel sorry for her, marrying my stupid brother" but expressed sympathy for Kathryn's sister Phoebe who had chosen to become an artist instead.

When tragedy actually struck and Edward Janeway was killed during an exploring mission, together with Kathryn's fiancée Justin Tighe while Kathryn survived the accident, Nicole Janeway pestered everybody who wanted to listen with comments about "well, what did I say". Finally Phoebe Janeway got tired of hearing her aunt's complaints, lost her temper and told Nicole Janeway where to go.

When Voyager dissapeared in the Badlands, Nicole Janeway continued to tell everyone (except Gretchen and Phoebe Janeway who had broken all contacts with her) that Kathryn only had herself to blame for being as foolish as her father. Due to her not too diplomatic comments about certain family members, Nicole Janeway became rather isolated from the rest of the family. She continued to live on her ostrich farm in Colorado while keeping her negative opinion about space exploring.

The scene with Nicole Janeway as captain on Voyager was actually a nighmare Kathryn Janeway had two nights after Voyager left Ocampa, heading for the distant home. Only in a nightmare could Kathryn Janeway imagine her aunt as the captain on her ship.



I actually like Janeway as the Captain Of The Ship as I like Kirk, Picard and Sisko as well but when it comes to team leaders, my favorite is the one and only Leroy Jethro Gibbs of NCIS!

 

[STEPhon IT]

@Danja what are your thoughts? Is Bujold's performance enough or even fair to assess what the series could've been if she remained? This was not her first rodeo and she's a highly regarded actor, well not in this forum. For the premise alone and not the derivative action redundancies Star Trek: Voyager produced for 7 seasons done magnificently by Kate Mulgrew. Again, whatever Rick Berman promoted, it was not what was delivered on TV screens.

 

[fireproof78]

my favorite is the one and only Leroy Jethro Gibbs of NCIS

Because Gibbs is the best.

 

[Oddish]

And he can pew you from half a mile away.

 

[Danja]

@Danja what are your thoughts? Is Bujold's performance enough or even fair to assess what the series could've been if she remained? This was not her first rodeo and she's a highly regarded actor, well not in this forum. For the premise alone and not the derivative action redundancies Star Trek: Voyager produced for 7 seasons done magnificently by Kate Mulgrew. Again, whatever Rick Berman promoted, it was not what was delivered on TV screens.

I don't know. I remember seeing her scenes as part of a Voyager-related behind the scenes documentary.

It's been some time since I've seen them.

 

[Oddish]

My take is that Bujold stepped up to the plate, took a few weak swings, then grounded out and headed for the showers. Mulgrew sauntered into the batter's box, scratched her backside, adjusted her batting helmet, blew a big purple bubble with the wad of grape flavored Big League Chew in her mouth, swung at the first pitch, and sent the ball screaming out of the stadium. They found it buried in the windshield of a police cruiser half a mile away.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I don't know. I remember seeing her scenes as part of a Voyager-related behind the scenes documentary.

It's been some time since I've seen them.

That's an honest answer, I believe if anyone understood the character was originally developed as a first time Captain would understand why Bujold earned the role and why Mulgrew was runner up. Which in fact she was, but actors are very sensitive and I think Bujold wasn't getting the vibe from the showrunners and dipped. Maybe I'm reading the series wrong; VOY must've been this great original show, better than TNG and DS9 where the showrunners did no wrong.

 

[Oddish]

I believe if anyone understood the character was originally developed as a first time Captain would understand why Bujold earned the role and why Mulgrew was runner up.

Way I understand it, it wasn't really a contest. Bujold was initially offered the role without an audition. It was only after filming started that they realized that it wasn't a good fit. When she left, they brought back some actresses who had auditioned before for a second look, including Kate Mulgrew, and went with her.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Way I understand it, it wasn't really a contest. Bujold was initially offered the role without an audition. It was only after filming started that they realized that it wasn't a good fit. When she left, they brought back some actresses who had auditioned before for a second look, including Kate Mulgrew, and went with her.

What did these actresses auditioned for?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

@Danja what are your thoughts? Is Bujold's performance enough or even fair to assess what the series could've been if she remained? This was not her first rodeo and she's a highly regarded actor, well not in this forum. For the premise alone and not the derivative action redundancies Star Trek: Voyager produced for 7 seasons done magnificently by Kate Mulgrew. Again, whatever Rick Berman promoted, it was not what was delivered on TV screens.

Bujold was an experienced film actor but had limited experience with filming a tv series as demanding as Star Trek. It was evident to Berman pretty much straight away that Bujold was going to have issues with the hours required of her. And ultimately one of the reasons Bujold left was due to the filming schedule. I don't think Bujold is a bad actor by any means, but i do think she made some bad acting choices with her performance as Janeway. Just because someone is a renowned actor, it doesn't mean that they are necessarily right or capable for a certain role.

 

[Oddish]

What did these actresses auditioned for?

Janeway. They were holding auditions, Ms. Bujold was just exempt because she was an award winning actress.

Fun bit of trivia: Susan Gibney, AKA Leah Brahms, was among those auditioning. I can just imagine the memes if she'd gotten the part: FLED 70,000 LIGHT YEARS TO ESCAPE GEORDI'S STALKING.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I feel like Bujold latched on to the idea of “Janeway the scientist” more than anything. Which, while I’m sure there are Starfleet captains like that in the fleet in universe, it makes for uninteresting viewing.

Like the point that stands in my mind is her giving the order to head out from DS9. This is the “engage!” moment, where the Captain gives the order to get underway. Her version is so... subdued. And just... she does not come across AS a leader in that moment. She’s so quiet, it has no oomph, no call to action. It comes across clearly that she just was never right for this role.

Why crack the whip? Well compare those two performances - Bujold doesn’t and ends up coming across as a bland, ineffective leader who CAN’T inspire the people around her, who lacks the fire and passion for her job. Mulgrew draws the attention to her, owns the room, makes it clear that she will make the choices.

 

[at Quark's]

While I agree that the Mulgrew experience makes for better viewing, I also agree that in reality, not all captains would need that 'authoritarian' style to have a well functioning crew. Starfleet is supposed to not really be a military, after all.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Bujold is a fine actress, but she seemingly had no energy for the role. There were times when she mumbled her commands or said them with such a soft voice that they were nearly inaudible, which would not do for a ship captain. It has nothing to do with "cracking the whip" or being authoritarian, though Janeway was written that way at times. It has to do with enunciating and sounding like you're saying something important and not just skimming the menu at a quiet restaurant. Mulgrew had the gravitas and projection that Bujold lacked in the role, for whatever reason. And if it was a deliberate stylistic choice that she made despite the producers telling her they wanted to go another way, well then she's gotta go.

 

[STEPhon IT]

While I agree that the Mulgrew experience makes for better viewing, I also agree that in reality, not all captains would need that 'authoritarian' style to have a well functioning crew. Starfleet is supposed to not really be a military, after all.

I thought her performance fit the circumstances and later in the seasons she'll bring it on. Did Mulgrew's infallible character worked for the premise? Was VOY a success? If so, by whom? To me, the series had a lot of issues and the direction of Janeway was a major issue; I'm opened to think Bujold's take may have been the riskier choice but better for it later on If the showrunners were willing to embrace their abandoned premise.

As a whole for me the series is weak.