Why, oh why, the bat'leth?

[smalltalk66]

I was reading an online article where a weapons expert discussed the bat'leth. He asserted that the Klingons' use of this unwieldy weapon was rather archaic in an age of phasers and long-range, planet-busting weapons, and I agree.

So I was curious: Can someone come up with PRACTICAL scenarios that would realistically justify using bat'leths in 23rd centruy intergalatic combat?

I am also reminded that Spartans could use their heavy ass shields as stretchers--don't think that'd work here...

 

[smalltalk66]

Sorry for the mispellings...I'm workin' with only one contact lense here lol

 

[General_Phoenix]

Not sure what purpose it would serve, aside from being ceremonial, and maybe a tradition in being taught melee weapon combat in the Klingon culture.

 

[Smellincoffee]

I was reading an online article where a weapons expert discussed the bat'leth. He asserted that the Klingons' use of this unwieldy weapon was rather archaic in an age of phasers and long-range, planet-busting weapons, and I agree.

So I was curious: Can someone come up with PRACTICAL scenarios that would realistically justify using bat'leths in 23rd centruy intergalatic combat?

I am also reminded that Spartans could use their heavy ass shields as stretchers--don't think that'd work here...

Well, they might be handy on a Borg cube, until the drones developed shields against physical-force attacks.

 

[DS9forever]

Bashir said in "The Way of the Warrior" "that the
Klingons prefer to use their knives and bat'leths in close
combat". Shooting somebody at point blank range is probably considered dishonorable.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Bashir said in "The Way of the Warrior" "that the
Klingons prefer to use their knives and bat'leths in close
combat". Shooting somebody at point blank range is probably considered dishonorable.

Well, here are some other reasons for such a preference:

1. Use of edged weapons when they are effective doesn't waste ammunition. The preference extends the effectiveness of the warrior, since not every kill drains his power packs.
2. The danger of the shooter getting burned by his own weapon is eliminated, which is a possibility that should exist at very close quarters when two combatants are in physical contact.

Your suggestion might be the case, but I wouldn't say it was "probably" the reason.

 

[SchwEnt]

For a real world example, we've had pistols and other firearms for centuries and knives are still used in combat today. What's our excuse? Why don't modern day humans use handguns and rifles exclusively?

TWOTW was a good example, in any case. Klingons began the assault on DS9 using ship-mounted weaponry (obviously). Then when they beamed aboard, combat continued with disruptors and ranged weapons. Finally when they got close in for melee fighting, out came the batleths.
The Klingons used disruptors when more viable, and then their own preference when close in fighting (batleths). Their choice.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

Isn't there a scene in early TNG where we see Klingon armour deflecting phaser fire? or the stun setting at least.

A bat'leth wielding Klingon might make a good shock troop. I don't know about you, but having an angry klingon charging at me with a bat'leth would certainly startle me, maybe even enough to delay me from firing my phaser, or maybe even missing altogether.

Also, energy weapons in Star Trek seem to be unreliable in whatever form of radiation the writer's want to come up with that week.

Also, I know bladed weapons are very effective in the Dune universe, where personal shields are common place, we may get some ideas from there.

 

[Tosk]

I was reading an online article where a weapons expert discussed the bat'leth. He asserted that the Klingons' use of this unwieldy weapon was rather archaic in an age of phasers and long-range, planet-busting weapons, and I agree.

I don't see why a new form of weaponry would rule out using older ones.

It's like saying that no one should use knives as a weapon any more because guns do the job more efficiently.


...Plus, many Klingons like to fight with their hands, not their trigger finger.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

So I was curious: Can someone come up with PRACTICAL scenarios that would realistically justify using bat'leths in 23rd centruy intergalatic combat?

Personal forcefields.

If a platoon of shielded Klingons leads a banzai charge into Federation phaser fire, they can close the distance to a range where they can quickly slice their way through the enemy at point blank range. Evidently, forcefields aren't particularly effective against melee attacks (just ask the Borg).

I am also reminded that Spartans could use their heavy ass shields as stretchers--don't think that'd work here...

I suddenly get an image in my head of a the Master Chief having an energy-sword duel with a bat'leth wielding Klingon...

 

[indolover]

we've seen Klingons use disruptors plenty of times. I think though that the bat'leth is an iconic weapon amongst Klingons, largely because Kahless invented. It's like if, say, Jesus invented a weapon, it would become iconic in Christian cultures.

 

[indolover]

For a real world example, we've had pistols and other firearms for centuries and knives are still used in combat today. What's our excuse? Why don't modern day humans use handguns and rifles exclusively?

TWOTW was a good example, in any case. Klingons began the assault on DS9 using ship-mounted weaponry (obviously). Then when they beamed aboard, combat continued with disruptors and ranged weapons. Finally when they got close in for melee fighting, out came the batleths.
The Klingons used disruptors when more viable, and then their own preference when close in fighting (batleths). Their choice.

Exactly, most armed forces today still use bayonets and are taught hand to hand combat. Whilst a gun can take somebody out from a distance, there still is a need for close quarters/melee style combat.

 

[The Castellan]

Well, this is an alien weapon, so I say stop thinking human when it comes to alien stuff.

 

[SicOne]

In addition to other good reasons mentioned, I am thinking that a good bat'leth at your side will hold you in good stead to any Federation electronic trickery that renders your disruptor useless. And as we've seldom seen Starfleet crews using handheld melee weapons, that gives Klingons a tactical advantage in close-combat situations. Factor in mek'leths and d'ktahgs (I'm sure I'm not spelling them right) and those little spikes on the toes of their boots, and you'd have quite a free-for-all.

 

[Timo]

The thing is, the Starfleet phaser is a pretty good close combat weapon - it does everything a knife does, and more. For one thing, it's great for slicing, unlike the Klingon disruptor.

Unless the use of a Starfleet phaser in close combat cutting work really drains the batteries (and we have seen that one battery can take out an army, in "Omega Glory"), then I can only think of two reasons why a knife would be preferable. One, it doesn't glow in the dark or make a whining noise, so it may be a superior assassination or stealth attack weapon. Two, it does present a proximity risk: we've seen a single phaser shot take out two people in "What Are Little Girls Made Of", even if that shot did feature the two people in really close embrace, utilized the make-target-totally-disappear setting that is rarely used outside TOS, and was actually intended to be mutually destructive.

Personally, I'd think a knife would get dulled or break faster than a phaser runs out of battery power. And recharging a phaser in the typical 24th century battlefield might be much easier than resharpening a knife. But the Klingons may engage in campaigns that last really long, take place outside wireless power networks, and in general involve inferior maintenance standards...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Castellan]

The thing is, the Starfleet phaser is a pretty good close combat weapon - it does everything a knife does, and more. For one thing, it's great for slicing, unlike the Klingon disruptor.

Unless the use of a Starfleet phaser in close combat cutting work really drains the batteries (and we have seen that one battery can take out an army, in "Omega Glory"), then I can only think of two reasons why a knife would be preferable. One, it doesn't glow in the dark or make a whining noise, so it may be a superior assassination or stealth attack weapon. Two, it does present a proximity risk: we've seen a single phaser shot take out two people in "What Are Little Girls Made Of", even if that shot did feature the two people in really close embrace, utilized the make-target-totally-disappear setting that is rarely used outside TOS, and was actually intended to be mutually destructive.

Personally, I'd think a knife would get dulled or break faster than a phaser runs out of battery power. And recharging a phaser in the typical 24th century battlefield might be much easier than resharpening a knife. But the Klingons may engage in campaigns that last really long, take place outside wireless power networks, and in general involve inferior maintenance standards...

Timo Saloniemi

And remember, the Klingons are warriors at heart, and there's more of a thrill when using a sword or a spear as opposed to a gun.

Humans got worse weapons....nunchuckus for one.

Plus look at that double light saber Darth Maul used...hell, any light saber...those things can mess the wielder up if he/she/it is not careful.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Long story short: melee weapons don't require energy to use, and aren't rendered non-operational by exotic radiation, energy-damping fields, etc.

 

[Timo]

Which is strange in itself, because surely it should be simpler to use high tech to neutralize a knife than a phaser. I mean, a clever phaser can resist jamming. A knife is too dumb to do anything about it.

The more serious thing is that if the enemy can jam your phaser, then he can by default jam your heart, too. Why should he bother with your phaser, then? A knife doesn't help you any if your heart has stopped beating.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ian Keldon]

Which is strange in itself, because surely it should be simpler to use high tech to neutralize a knife than a phaser. I mean, a clever phaser can resist jamming.

Maybe, maybe not.

A knife is too dumb to do anything about it.

A knife can't "run out of ammo" either. It's also silent and doesn't make a great big flash of light when used.

The more serious thing is that if the enemy can jam your phaser, then he can by default jam your heart, too.

You don't know that.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Which is strange in itself, because surely it should be simpler to use high tech to neutralize a knife than a phaser. I mean, a clever phaser can resist jamming. A knife is too dumb to do anything about it.

You wouldn't "jam" a knife with anything short of a fully fledged forcefield. The kind of forcefield that would block a knife strike would probably make your life incredibly difficult at the same time, though, unless of course you programmed your shield to only block things that come at it with a minimum amount of kinetic energy (a slow blade penetrates the shield!)

The more serious thing is that if the enemy can jam your phaser, then he can by default jam your heart, too.

That's pretty much what phasers are for, actually. The thing is, under normal circumstances a "heart stopper beam" requires a line of sight to the target while phaser-stopping beams do not. This is probably due to the more sensitive tolerances of the electronics of a phaser beam.

OTOH, if you set a starship phasers on "maximum exterminate" and blanketed a city block with wide-field phaser fire...