Why do super hero movie villains have to die at the end?

[Tom Hendricks]

Since Tim Burton's Batman, almost every single super hero movie the villain or villains die in the end. Why is that? Why would they paint themselves into a corner like that. Is it poor and unimaginative screenwriting? Also every single time the hero has nothing to do with the death, except be there when it happens or facilitate it in some small way. I'm tired of it, one of the best things about Superman the movie, was Superman delivering Lex Luthor to prison at the end.

 

[Leroy]

It's because the good guys have to win, there has to be some payoff, and the audience has to feel good about someone they don't like getting killed, and the next installment can't be a rehash of the last movie. I don't necessarily agree with any of those conventions though.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I think it's ironic that where the film makers took one of the rare decisions not to kill off the main villain - namely Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight - because they had plans for him in its sequel, the actor died instead.

 

[Greg Cox]

I suspect it's simply more of a crowd-pleaser to have the Big Bad go up in flames rather than get turned over to the authorities.

Of course, there's also the old-fashioned approach, where the bad guy appears to die in the climatic explosion, but you don't actually see the body. "Nobody could live through that!"

(See every single FU MANCHU movie with Christopher Lee.)

But maybe that's too cliche these days . . . or not satisfying enough?

 

[Anwar]

Well, for dramatic reasons it's not a good idea to use the same villain twice. Magneto was a special case in the X-Men movies since he was the prime antagonist in the first film, and while he didn't die and WAS in the other two he wasn't the prime villain there (Stryker was the villain of X2, Phoenix of X3).

 

[Whofan]

With Green Goblin (Both Norman and Harry) and Iron Monger, the villains died in the comics as well. Although Green Goblin did come back, and Iron Monger's son has become an Iron Man villain lately.

 

[Trent Roman]

I think it's just a question of bringing an end to your story. These characters have such an expansive rogues' gallery that you want to be able to tackle several of them, and particularly insofar as the villain often drives the plot, vary the kind of story you're telling. (After seeing "Superman Returns," I know I certainly wished Luthor had been killed in the original.) And if your villain is quite powerful, then he or she should continue to pose a threat as long as they exist; if still alive, you'll have to account for why they no longer seem to pose a danger.

I don't know, however, that it's true that villains have been dropping like flies--plenty of them have survived in one way or another. The X-Men films kept Magneto alive across the entire trilogy and beyond, as well as Mystique and Pyro; Doom is likewise a constant presence in the Fantastic Four films. Daredevil didn't kill either Bullseye or Kingpin. Sandman survives the third Spider-Man film. Schumaker's Batmen only killed two out of five villains (Riddler, Poison Ivy and Freeze survive their films, although Riddler is now insane), while Nolan's allow Scarecrow to survive both and spare the Joker. Luthor seems impossible to get rid of. I think that makes a substantial portion of surviving supervillains.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Hartzilla2007]

(See every single FU MANCHU movie with Christopher Lee.)

Considering only one brought Joel and the bots on MST3K to tears out of how bad the film was I think not.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'd say the real-world reason is that they're unlikely to afford bring the big-name actors back for a sequel.

And also, Hollywood is very conditioned to ending ANY action movie with the villain getting killed. It's exceptional when they don't do it.

 

[Greg Cox]

(See every single FU MANCHU movie with Christopher Lee.)

Considering only one brought Joel and the bots on MST3K to tears out of how bad the film was I think not.

The first one, FACE OF FU MANCHU, is a fun period adventure, and worth checking out, IMHO.

As with most series, however, things went downhill over time.

But they all ended with a shot of Fu's headquarters in flames, while his ominous voiceover intoned: "The world shall hear from me again!"

Now that's how you (kind of) dispose of a master villain!

 

[Admiral_Young]

Nolan had plans to use Heath in Batman 3? Do you have a source for that comment because I don't ever recall reading any interview from Nolan saying that. I think that has been a fan myth since Heath's death. It's always bugged me when the villains die, you can't do cool return stories with those villains if you wanted if they're dead. I suppose one of the rationalizations about that has to do with the vast rouges many superheroes have at their disposal to use.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Nolan had plans to use Heath in Batman 3? Do you have a source for that comment because I don't ever recall reading any interview from Nolan saying that. I think that has been a fan myth since Heath's death.

The Joker says at the end of the movie, "You and I are going to keep doing this forever, aren't we?" Doesn't that at least imply they were planning to bring him back at some point?

 

[Anwar]

A theory I heard (no evidence) was that when Joker says that madness is like gravity, he was going to cut the rope and kill himself. But they changed it when Heath died and inserted the "forever" part.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think that particular quote from the movie was simply a homage to the comics that yes Batman and Joker would be continuing to engage each other over the years.

 

[JacksonArcher]

Well, before Batman Begins came out, there were plans of having Harvey Dent in the second film and then turning into Two-Face in the third film (with the Joker the primary villain in the second) but obviously those plans changed. I know Nolan and Goyer have had a basic preliminary outline for all three films when they were developing Begins, but Nolan thinks "one movie at a time" so naturally things changed when he sat down to develop The Dark Knight.

Goyer said at a Comic-Con recently or semi-recently that had Heath Ledger lived, there might have been plans to include him in a third film, based on the popularity of his performance the opportunity would have been there, but since he died it's all kind of a moot point now. I'm not quite sure Nolan and Goyer had it set it stone that Joker would return for a third film- I'm sure they entertained the idea- but similar to how the trilogy plans changed during the development process for The Dark Knight, nothing was ever certain and it's hard to say or determine if Joker would have been in Nolan and Goyer's plans for a third film prior to Ledger's death, or even if he would return for a third film had Ledger lived.

 

[Trent Roman]

While I think the Joker's story was essentially played out in "Dark Knight", I would have loved a Hannibal Lecter-type cameo appearance in a third film. Give the villain a connection to the Joker, have Bats visit him at Arkham to try and pump some information, a brief but engrossing encounter mediated by a small window... Alas.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[JacksonArcher]

I agree, Trent. Scarecrow's brief cameo in The Dark Knight suggests Nolan probably would have been open to that idea, had Ledger lived. Such a shame about his death, for so many reasons.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I want to see the bad guys get their comeuppance and that can't happen if they die. When they die, it feels like they got away.

 

[Too Much Fun]

While I think the Joker's story was essentially played out in "Dark Knight", I would have loved a Hannibal Lecter-type cameo appearance in a third film. Give the villain a connection to the Joker, have Bats visit him at Arkham to try and pump some information, a brief but engrossing encounter mediated by a small window... Alas.

I've been saying for months that's I'm sure this is what he was planning to do. It just makes sense. He kept Joker alive, but I imagine he would think making The Joker the centre of attention in the next movie would be repetitive, so this sounds like the best way to have used him.

 

[JarodRussell]

I always thought that the Joker and the Riddler would have a connection in the next movie.