Why did people complain about Khan's white-washing in STID...

[treksster]

When the actor for Khan of the original timeline was not Indian either? In 'Space Seed', he was said to be North Indian and probably Sikh; and Khan himself acknowledged the painting of him wearing a turban.

Yet he did not look like a North Indian Punjabi, and he spoke with a Mexican accent. He was nothing like an Indian.

 

[JarodRussell]

He was Indian enough for 60s TV.
And even in the 60s, Cumberbatch would have stood out like a sore British thumb playing Khan Noonien Singh.

 

[treksster]

He was Indian enough for 60s TV.
And even in the 60s, Cumberbatch would have stood out like a sore British thumb playing Khan Noonien Singh.

In Space Seed, he had makeup. I could perhaps buy that Ricardo Montalbn looked Indian, but he did not speak like one at all.

In Wrath of Khan, I don't think he had makeup. He looked lighter.

 

[Dukhat]

When the actor for Khan of the original timeline was not Indian either? In 'Space Seed', he was said to be North Indian and probably Sikh; and Khan himself acknowledged the painting of him wearing a turban.

Yet he did not look like a North Indian Punjabi, and he spoke with a Mexican accent. He was nothing like an Indian.

This isn't what people are complaining about. They are complaining that Benedict Cumberbatch is a pasty-white Brit, while Ricardo Montalban was, well, Ricardo Montalban, just because it was never made 100% clear that Khan was genetically altered to look different. If a dark-complected Mexican was cast as Khan in STID, nobody would be complaining (or at least no one who needs to be spoon-fed every detail because they can't work things out for themselves.)

And as for your point: Lots of actors play ethnic roles of which they do not belong. In Hollywood, if a Middle Eastern character is needed, one does not get the role just by being Middle Eastern, one gets the role by being a good actor who can pull off being Middle Eastern.

 

[bbailey861]

I keep wondering how many times this is going to be brought up?

 

[JWPlatt]

No matter how many times it is mentioned, these threads all on the same topic seem to carry the general amnesia about how Cumberbatch got the job when the production was left scrambling for a quick replacement after favored Benicio del Toro dropped out of negotiations fairly late in the schedule.

It's fine to dislike the film, but it's not fine to leave out facts to support a bias.

 

[Dukhat]

It's only a problem if someone feels the need to bring it up.

 

[treksster]

When the actor for Khan of the original timeline was not Indian either? In 'Space Seed', he was said to be North Indian and probably Sikh; and Khan himself acknowledged the painting of him wearing a turban.

Yet he did not look like a North Indian Punjabi, and he spoke with a Mexican accent. He was nothing like an Indian.

This isn't what people are complaining about. They are complaining that Benedict Cumberbatch is a pasty-white Brit, while Ricardo Montalban was, well, Ricardo Montalban, just because it was never made 100% clear that Khan was genetically altered to look different. If a dark-complected Mexican was cast as Khan in STID, nobody would be complaining (or at least no one who needs to be spoon-fed every detail because they can't work things out for themselves.)

And as for your point: Lots of actors play ethnic roles of which they do not belong. In Hollywood, if a Middle Eastern character is needed, one does not get the role just by being Middle Eastern, one gets the role by being a good actor who can pull off being Middle Eastern.

Just to note, I actually am a North Indian Punjabi (the race Khan is supposed to be). I didn't agree with Cumberbatch's casting, but Ricardo Montalban's casting, for the character he was supposed to be wasn't all that great either.

Ricardo was of a dark complexion in Space Speed, in Wrath of Khan he was essentially white; he was deemed Indian, but where did the Mexican accent come from if he was supposedly a native of India and conqueror of Asia/Middle East?

Ricardo Montalban was a good actor, but what did he do that pulled off being Indian? Because he sure as hell didn't sound Indian. There was absolutely no explanation for his accent, it was out of place.

 

[Dukhat]

First of all, welcome to the TrekBBS!

I simply don't think the producers of Space Seed were all that concerned with accents, or if said accent would offend anyone, because at the time, nobody knew how popular ST would end up becoming, and that people would be analyzing the show with a fine toothed comb for the next 50 years.

 

[Melakon]

Ricardo was of a dark complexion in Space Speed, in Wrath of Khan he was essentially white; he was deemed Indian, but where did the Mexican accent come from if he was supposedly a native of India and conqueror of Asia/Middle East?

Ricardo Montalban was a good actor, but what did he do that pulled off being Indian? Because he sure as hell didn't sound Indian. There was absolutely no explanation for his accent, it was out of place.

Montalban's accent in "Space Seed" was pretty much the same in any other guest star role I saw him in during the 1960s. There weren't any popularly known actors native to India that were working in Hollywood in the '60s that I'm aware of, regardless if they were of the right age to be Khan. So is it Hollywood's fault they didn't hire an Indian actor, if there's not one available?

 

[Franklin]

Perhaps it would've been better if an enlightened show saw the perverse humor in Montalban playing an Asian and the part was rewritten to make the villain from a more appropriate area of the world for Montalban. Hey, maybe even Brooklyn!

 

[Mudd]

Cumberbatch was no more or less appropriately cast than Montalban and is a more nuanced and skillful actor.

 

[Franklin]

Cumberbatch was no more or less appropriately cast than Montalban and is a more nuanced and skillful actor.

I don't know, I always liked Montalban. He was just type-cast into playing basically the same type of person over and over.

Heck, even his Khan in "Space Seed" was just a take on the Latin Lover trope combined with a bit of the proud warrior Native American he also often played. Khan was no more Eastern than John Wayne.

 

[mos6507]

All they needed to sell on Space Seed was him being exotic, and Montalban fit the bill. Cumberbatch is a good actor and has a high level of charisma, but he just doesn't fit the Khan mold, even if you envisioned a "white" version of Khan. I mean, other than his voice (used to good effect in isolation as Smaug) he just isn't macho/athletic enough. He's just too "emo".

 

[Franklin]

All they needed to sell on Space Seed was him being exotic, and Montalban fit the bill. Cumberbatch is a good actor and has a high level of charisma, but he just doesn't fit the Khan mold, even if you envisioned a "white" version of Khan. I mean, other than his voice (used to good effect in isolation as Smaug) he just isn't macho/athletic enough. He's just too "emo".

I saw a "white" version of Khan in TWOK.

Cumberbatch actually bulked up for the role. He was built as well as Montalban was. Go to Google and check out his chest in the cut shower scene. He's ripped.

 

[T'Girl]

In nuBSG the character of Boomer went from Black to East Asian, but not Black to White.

In Darkness, Khan went from a Indian (played by a Brown person) to yet another White actor.

It like if they had cast a White actress to play Uhura and a White actor to play Sulu, but all the previous white characters were still cast with White actors.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

When the actor for Khan of the original timeline was not Indian either? In 'Space Seed', he was said to be North Indian and probably Sikh; and Khan himself acknowledged the painting of him wearing a turban.

Yet he did not look like a North Indian Punjabi, and he spoke with a Mexican accent. He was nothing like an Indian.

This isn't what people are complaining about. They are complaining that Benedict Cumberbatch is a pasty-white Brit, while Ricardo Montalban was, well, Ricardo Montalban, just because it was never made 100% clear that Khan was genetically altered to look different. If a dark-complected Mexican was cast as Khan in STID, nobody would be complaining (or at least no one who needs to be spoon-fed every detail because they can't work things out for themselves.)

And as for your point: Lots of actors play ethnic roles of which they do not belong. In Hollywood, if a Middle Eastern character is needed, one does not get the role just by being Middle Eastern, one gets the role by being a good actor who can pull off being Middle Eastern.

Try telling people that (including most bloggers) and they tell you that you're being racist and full of it, and need to get it together or get lost.

 

[fonzob1]

First of all, welcome to the TrekBBS!

I simply don't think the producers of Space Seed were all that concerned with accents, or if said accent would offend anyone, because at the time, nobody knew how popular ST would end up becoming, and that people would be analyzing the show with a fine toothed comb for the next 50 years.

Also, how many Indian or eastern actors were readily available in the 1960's and could pull off the role of a genetically engineered superman? There were probably not many.

Montalban had swagger and was in the physical shape they were probably looking for in the role.

 

[kirkfan]

First of all, welcome to the TrekBBS!

I simply don't think the producers of Space Seed were all that concerned with accents, or if said accent would offend anyone, because at the time, nobody knew how popular ST would end up becoming, and that people would be analyzing the show with a fine toothed comb for the next 50 years.

Also, how many Indian or eastern actors were readily available in the 1960's and could pull off the role of a genetically engineered superman? There were probably not many.

Montalban had swagger and was in the physical shape they were probably looking for in the role.

He was very believable in that role.

 

[BigJake]

Yet he did not look like a North Indian Punjabi, and he spoke with a Mexican accent. He was nothing like an Indian.

Sixties television and film weren't super-concerned with ethnic authenticity. This was still an era when white guys were being painted up to play Indians and John Wayne was playing Genghis Khan. For the era Montalban was at least serviceably exotic, which was about as good as you were going to get.

It pisses people off now because this isn't the Sixties, nor even the Eighties, and we're supposed to have learned lessons and moved forward from that time, yet often it seems that hasn't happened. Cumberbatch as Khan is a step in precisely the other direction, but he's not even the most egregious recent example, which crown I think goes to Johnny Depp:

... and of course most of the cast of Shyamalan's Avatar, which bequeathed us the term "racebending."