When was Dr Piper CMO of the Enterprise?

[Damian]

I decided to place this question here, as there really is not on screen canon explanation for when Dr. Piper was CMO of the Enterprise.

I ask the question now because I'm currently doing a re-read of "Enterprise: The First Adventure" by Vonda McIntyre. Now much of the character placements are hard to reconcile with "Where No Man Has Gone Before", which I'll cover elsewhere once I'm finished with the novel.

One thing is that the novel has Dr. McCoy as the chief medical officer from the time Kirk took command of the Enterprise, and ignores Dr. Piper's presence on the Enterprise from WNMHGB.

Except he is mentioned in the novel as replacing Dr. Boyce when Dr. Boyce left the Enterprise, then he retired when Captain Pike was promoted. When Kirk is having difficulty locating Dr. McCoy is tries to contact Dr. Piper to see if he could fill in until they find McCoy (but McCoy is eventually found).

Now later novels seemed to return to the idea that Dr. Piper was Kirk's first CMO and Dr. McCoy took over after Piper retired, about a year into Kirk's first command (though if you go with the idea that the 5 YM started after WNMHGB then McCoy was there to start that mission--which makes sense, all the crew turnover between WNMHGB and "The Corbomite Manuever" can be attributed in universe to the preparation on a long mission when such a larger scale turnover would be expected to take place).

So that leads to my question. I sort of thought it was always possible Dr Piper started as CMO during Pike's command. Pike was in command of the Enterprise for more than 11 years, it's reasonable to assume members of his staff left for other posts or retired. In a lot of ways it makes sense. Just because a new captain takes over does not mean that there would be a complete overhaul of all the senior staff. For instance a number of novels have gone with the idea that Scotty was chief engineer going back to Pike's command and that he started on the Enterprise as a junior engineer several years before Kirk took command.

What do others think? I posted a poll out of curiosity. Just a simple yes/no.

 

[Christopher]

I sort of thought it was always possible Dr Piper started as CMO during Pike's command. Pike was in command of the Enterprise for more than 11 years, it's reasonable to assume members of his staff left for other posts or retired. In a lot of ways it makes sense. Just because a new captain takes over does not mean that there would be a complete overhaul of all the senior staff.

This is the theory I went with in The Captain's Oath. I went with the version from Mere Anarchy: Things Fall Apart, where Piper was Kirk's first CMO on the Enterprise and was putting off his retirement until arrangements could be made for his replacement. It stood to reason, then, that he was inherited from Pike's crew -- that Boyce had retired some years before and Piper had been Pike's final CMO. Although Piper doesn't actually appear in TCO; he's just briefly mentioned. He was too much of a nonentity in "Where No Man" for me to care about him as a character.

 

[Damian]

This is the theory I went with in The Captain's Oath. I went with the version from Mere Anarchy: Things Fall Apart, where Piper was Kirk's first CMO on the Enterprise and was putting off his retirement until arrangements could be made for his replacement.

I seem to remember a similar idea in My Brother's Keeper, that Piper was just waiting until the new CMO was assigned before retiring (though I think Friedman sidestepped when Piper started---I don't recall that end of his tenure being mentioned).

You know, it'd be interesting to see a novel that focused on Pike's later years in command of the Enterprise with Piper as his CMO. It'd be interesting to see them together in a story.

 

[Christopher]

You know, it'd be interesting to see a novel that focused on Pike's later years in command of the Enterprise with Piper as his CMO. It'd be interesting to see them together in a story.

I just don't see "Dr. Piper" and "interesting" as words that go together. He had only about 8 lines in the second pilot and all of them were exposition. He was more of a placeholder than a character.

But I agree, it'd be nice to see more of Pike's later tenure. Most books and comics about Pike's Enterprise command always cluster around "The Cage" even though there's more than a decade after it to explore.

 

[Damian]

I just don't see "Dr. Piper" and "interesting" as words that go together. He had only about 8 lines in the second pilot and all of them were exposition. He was more of a placeholder than a character.

But I agree, it'd be nice to see more of Pike's later tenure. Most books and comics about Pike's Enterprise command always cluster around "The Cage" even though there's more than a decade after it to explore.

But then that would be a challenge. Could one of you guys 'make' Piper a more interesting character? In a way he's almost an open ended character. We actually know so little about him, and he had an important job on the Enterprise, that someone could almost create a backstory for him without worrying much about the on screen canon for his character.

I don't think many novels mentioned him--other than "Strangers from the Sky" and "My Brothers Keeper: Enterprise" I don't recall him being brought up much.

 

[Christopher]

But then that would be a challenge. Could one of you guys 'make' Piper a more interesting character? In a way he's almost an open ended character. We actually know so little about him, and he had an important job on the Enterprise, that someone could almost create a backstory for him without worrying much about the on screen canon for his character.

Maybe, but it's not a challenge I find interesting. Other writers before me have tried to flesh out Piper, so I didn't feel any need to try, and there's nothing about him that catches my interest, both because he had no scripted personality and because Paul Fix was a very bland actor.

 

[Damian]

Maybe, but it's not a challenge I find interesting. Other writers before me have tried to flesh out Piper, so I didn't feel any need to try, and there's nothing about him that catches my interest, both because he had no scripted personality and because Paul Fix was a very bland actor.

Then I guess it's safe to assume you won't be writing any stories featuring Dr. Piper in a large role .

Though even if someone did a latter day Pike novel with Piper as his CMO doesn't necessarily mean Piper would have a big role. He could always be in the 'also starring' category of a story.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Yeah, Piper is just kinda the narrative equivalent to wallpaper for me. Even Boyce had more feeling of uniqueness and character to him in The Cage. Nothing about seeing more of him really appeals to me.

I’m sure it could be done, but I don’t see the reason why anyone would, given the vast tapestry of other characters who don’t need so much work to hook an audience.

 

[Desert Kris]

Oh, nice; Enterprise: The First Adventure is the next ST novel on my list! I tried to read when I was too young, but I remembered about McCoy being set up as the ship's doctor as Kirk first takes command. And then Strangers From the Sky, another that I tried to read before I was ready, had Piper as the doctor, as well as characters from WNMHGB.

I like the idea that the more familiar Enterprise characters start to emerge gradually, beginning near the end of Pike's tenure. I thought it was clever when I first encountered Scotty as an established engineer in a Pike-era comic. Even though Piper is a blank slate, character-wise, I feel like having him as part of an early line up of senior Enterprise officers there during the transition between Pike and Kirk works okay. I imagine that if enough writers worked with him and shared notes, some personality quirks would start to emerge gradually.

I'm fine with the idea that Kirk basically has McCoy lined up, but the timing isn't quite right for McCoy, and Piper is close to retiring but is game to fill in for a short stretch.

 

[wayne66]

Paul Fix was more of a western styled actor. He seemed more comfortable as a rural 19th century character, not a futuristic character. I do like him in other roles. I do like John Hoyts portrayal of Dr. Boyce. The scene that he did in Pike's quarters was very good. It reminded me of Deforest Kelly and William Shatner doing a scene together. It would be interesting to see if they eventually do a Captain Pike series if Boyce or Piper is the ships doctor. I second the idea of having Scotty already on board.

 

[Christopher]

Paul Fix was more of a western styled actor. He seemed more comfortable as a rural 19th century character, not a futuristic character.

You could say the same about DeForest Kelley, though.

I do like him in other roles.

I've generally found him dull or forgettable, but he wasn't bad in his Land of the Giants role.

 

[Leto_II]

So that leads to my question. I sort of thought it was always possible Dr Piper started as CMO during Pike's command. Pike was in command of the Enterprise for more than 11 years, it's reasonable to assume members of his staff left for other posts or retired. In a lot of ways it makes sense. Just because a new captain takes over does not mean that there would be a complete overhaul of all the senior staff. For instance a number of novels have gone with the idea that Scotty was chief engineer going back to Pike's command and that he started on the Enterprise as a junior engineer several years before Kirk took command.

This is exactly what John Byrne also recently went with, in his Star Trek: New Visions comic series (in the story "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner," issue #21), where we see Piper experience his very first alien contact as Pike's CMO, taking place not long after Dr. Boyce's retirement, which makes it sound consistent with Christopher's upcoming TOS novel. Lee Kelso is also aboard as navigator in this story, which would seem to place it fairly close to Pike's promotion to Fleet Captain.

 

[Damian]

Oh, nice; Enterprise: The First Adventure is the next ST novel on my list! I tried to read when I was too young, but I remembered about McCoy being set up as the ship's doctor as Kirk first takes command. And then Strangers From the Sky, another that I tried to read before I was ready, had Piper as the doctor, as well as characters from WNMHGB.

I remember Strangers from the Sky came out not long after Enterprise: TFA. It almost seemed like Margaret Wander Bonanno was trying to 'fix' some of the continuity errors from TFA. For instance I do remember her putting Piper in as CMO and explaining that McCoy was the official CMO but for some reason had to take a leave of absence and Piper came out of retirement to help out until he came back.

To me it's a bit of a let down of TFA that I can't really see it as a 'true' first adventure for Kirk, because a lot of the characters are not in the right place. I know she wrote the story as a first adventure for the familiar crew--but it takes me out of the 'firstness' of the story everytime I read Sulu at the helm, or Uhura at communications, or Rand. OMG, of all the characters in TFA hers is the worse depiction. Never in her few appearances on the show did she even remotely remind me of the frightened, sniveling child she is depicted to be in the novel. The other characters, even if they are misplaced, at least reminded me of their true selves. But Rand. Wow. If I were Grace Lee Whitney when the novel came out I would have been like 'SERIOUSLY, WTF'.

I’m sure it could be done, but I don’t see the reason why anyone would, given the vast tapestry of other characters who don’t need so much work to hook an audience.

Allright, I guess I'm somewhat alone in my interest to see Piper fleshed out a bit more. He's sort of a blank slate to me. I always thought maybe one of our resident novelists could give him some life. Still, I'd love to see a latter day Pike novel with Piper as CMO, even if he's just an 'also starring' type of character and not fleshed out more.

 

[David cgc]

Though even if someone did a latter day Pike novel with Piper as his CMO doesn't necessarily mean Piper would have a big role. He could always be in the 'also starring' category of a story.

Still, I'd love to see a latter day Pike novel with Piper as CMO, even if he's just an 'also starring' type of character and not fleshed out more.

This reminds me a little of when someone bumps an old thread and I don't notice, and I'm reading through it and getting ready to write a reply, only to see that I already wrote what I was about to write years ago, often word-for-word.

 

[Christopher]

I remember Strangers from the Sky came out not long after Enterprise: TFA. It almost seemed like Margaret Wander Bonanno was trying to 'fix' some of the continuity errors from TFA. For instance I do remember her putting Piper in as CMO and explaining that McCoy was the official CMO but for some reason had to take a leave of absence and Piper came out of retirement to help out until he came back.

I think that was just different authors taking a different approach to things. McIntyre was presumably trying to make the book accessible/appealing to readers who cared more about the familiar series cast than the pilot cast (which made sense for an "event" book that might attract a more general audience than your typical Trek novel), while Margaret chose to focus more on the underdeveloped pilot characters.

 

[Damian]

I think that was just different authors taking a different approach to things. McIntyre was presumably trying to make the book accessible/appealing to readers who cared more about the familiar series cast than the pilot cast (which made sense for an "event" book that might attract a more general audience than your typical Trek novel), while Margaret chose to focus more on the underdeveloped pilot characters.

Probably. Though Strangers from the Sky was also billed as a Giant novel. I also have a first printing copy of that with the same corner cut out as Enterprise: TFA. You're probably right about it though. Thinking back, the explanation of why McCoy was not on the ship was the only thing I remember that you could say maybe tied it to Enterprise: TFA. I don't remember her explaining why Kelso was at helm and Sulu was a physicist, or what happened to Uhura. McCoy-Piper was the only thing I thought was a common link.

I guess when reading Enterprise: TFA one way to go about it may be to 'mentally' exchange Sulu for Kelso, and Uhura for Alden. But it doesn't work that well. And just pretend Rand doesn't exist.

It's a shame though. Esp. nowadays when it's pretty commonly accepted in continuity that WNMHGB was an early Kirk story and those characters have been included in later early Kirk stories. It makes it hard to view TFA as a first voyage for Kirk. Plus the whole vaudevillian story isn't all that satisfying. Strangers from the Sky is a much more satisfying early voyage story IMO, and even the My Brothers Keeper: Enterprise is a better fit for that period.

 

[Damian]

It was interesting that she acknowledged Piper. And of course Mitchell is mentioned prominently. Which in a way confused the issue a bit. She acknowledged WNMHGB while ignoring the character placements at the same time.

I wonder if it was an editorial call. Maybe she wanted to make it more consistent with WNMHGB and perhaps the editors or PTB at the time told her to make it more in line with the series proper instead.

 

[Christopher]

Though Strangers from the Sky was also billed as a Giant novel.

Yeah, but it wasn't a 20th-anniversary event like E:TFA was. And it wasn't the first Giant novel like E:TFA was.

Besides, continuity between novels by different authors was still very much optional back then, more the exception than the rule. I do recall getting the sense that the bit about Piper standing in for McCoy was a vague handwavey nod to E:TFA, but it could just as easily have been a nod to Mike Barr's "All Those Years Ago..." version of Kirk's first mission from DC's first Trek annual, which also contrived to have McCoy aboard at the start and explained that he'd need to take leave for Joanna's wedding in a few months.

 

[Damian]

Yeah, but it wasn't a 20th-anniversary event like E:TFA was. And it wasn't the first Giant novel like E:TFA was.

Besides, continuity between novels by different authors was still very much optional back then, more the exception than the rule. I do recall getting the sense that the bit about Piper standing in for McCoy was a vague handwavey nod to E:TFA, but it could just as easily have been a nod to Mike Barr's "All Those Years Ago..." version of Kirk's first mission from DC's first Trek annual, which also contrived to have McCoy aboard at the start and explained that he'd need to take leave for Joanna's wedding in a few months.

Hmm. I wonder if that was a reason maybe even Vonda McIntyre put McCoy in as CMO and put in the little bit about Kirk contacting Piper if he couldn't get in touch with McCoy--and then Wander Bonnano sort of 'finished' the thread with having McCoy on a leave of absence and Piper coming out of retirement to help out. Maybe not intentional but the 3 stories can sort of tie together as far as McCoy-Piper is concerned.

 

[Christopher]

There's no way "All Those Years Ago..." and E:TFA can tie together, since they're both depicting Kirk's first mission as Enterprise captain and they do it in massively different ways. They give different names to Kirk's former command (Saladin vs. Lydia Sutherland), ATYA has Gary Mitchell in a major role while E:TFA has him injured before the story to justify his absence, ATYA has Pike accompany Kirk on his first mission, etc.

Part of the reason I wanted to do The Captain's Oath is because I realized it had been a surprisingly long time since Pocket had done a new version of Kirk's first Enterprise mission, and we didn't have one that could fit into the modern continuity. We had Mere Anarchy Book 1 set near the beginning of his tenure, but that was it for the novels, and there wasn't much in other sources either (IDW had a couple of "near the start" stories, and The Autobiography of James T. Kirk covered it). So that's basically only three versions of the "first mission" story, and only one from Pocket more than 30 years ago, in contrast to at least seven versions of the end of the 5-year mission (including my version from Ex Machina/Forgotten History).

Anyway, I don't think you can read much into Strangers' throwaway nod about McCoy/Piper. Maybe the editor asked Margaret to toss in a passing reference because he was trying to create more of a feel of continuity among the books, but it probably wasn't a major consideration behind the book's plotting.