What was Gowron's problem?

[Hypaspist]

Did anyone else think it was kind of sudden and out of left field when Gowron became dishonorable? He was never the absolute best chancellor, what with plunging the Empire into war with Cardassia, but I always got the impression that his intentions were always good. Actually I liked the twist where we all thought he was a changeling, but that wasn't true. I also thought his dismissal of Worf was really sudden and unlike his character in TNG. Maybe Gowron was kind of a tragic character who lost his way, but it must have happened off screen.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

I was never bothered by that myself (in fact, I never noticed or paid attention to it), but maybe it's the case of "power corrupts" change? So yeah, he changed within those few years.

 

[Timo]

I'm not sure what change we would be referring to...

When we first meet the guy in TNG, he's involved in a power struggle where he bribes, threatens, and apparently also assassinates the previous Chancellor. Next he blackmails Worf with the family honor issue, first giving in "Redemption", then taking in "Way of the Warrior". He denounces and renounces treaties as pleases him, and goes to war against his allies at the drop of a hat. He fears competition and eliminates opponents; it's no wonder he would want to get rid of Martok as well.

That's standard Klingon politics for you, I think. If Martok intends to do better, he might have to suffer the consequences; it's not a sport for the squeamish.

Doesn't mean Gowron would have been dishonorable, though. He always agrees to personal duel with challengers ("Apocalypse Rising", "What We Leave Behind"), even if he kicks Marquis of Queensberry in the balls whenever prudent ("Redemption").

Timo Saloniemi

 

[benjaminh]

I was glad it was an outgrowth of his character, as well as an example of the flaws in the Klingon culture and political structure, rather than a take over of his mind by some alien or something like that.

 

[SPCTRE]

I'm not sure what change we would be referring to...

When we first meet the guy in TNG, he's involved in a power struggle where he bribes, threatens, and apparently also assassinates the previous Chancellor. Next he blackmails Worf with the family honor issue, first giving in "Redemption", then taking in "Way of the Warrior". He denounces and renounces treaties as pleases him, and goes to war against his allies at the drop of a hat. He fears competition and eliminates opponents; it's no wonder he would want to get rid of Martok as well.

That's standard Klingon politics for you, I think. If Martok intends to do better, he might have to suffer the consequences; it's not a sport for the squeamish.

Doesn't mean Gowron would have been dishonorable, though. He always agrees to personal duel with challengers ("Apocalypse Rising", "What We Leave Behind"), even if he kicks Marquis of Queensberry in the balls whenever prudent ("Redemption").

Timo Saloniemi

I have to agree, Gowron always struck me as pragmatic to the point of ruthlessness. It certainly didn't seem out of character.

 

[Hypaspist]

I was glad it was an outgrowth of his character, as well as an example of the flaws in the Klingon culture and political structure, rather than a take over of his mind by some alien or something like that.

Yeah that I have to agree with.

 

[bbjeg]

Everything he went through were Klingon politics at work. He tried to take care of all who opposed him because all one has to do to become Chancellor is kill him. I'd weaken my enemies as well in that situation.

... He was never the absolute best chancellor, what with plunging the Empire into war with Cardassia...

To be fair, he had a Changeling advising him during that period.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Gowron was never a noble character, he was always a self interested politician. He was only the protagonist in the TNG Klingon arc because he was more pro-Federation than Duras.

I don't see the war with Cardassia out of character for Gowron. The Empire was getting nervous that the Dominion was going to invade and the Federation (Which the average Klingon sees as weak) was the only line of defense. So Gowron started a crowd-pleasing war against a historic enemy that would make the Klingons the first line of defense, to consolidate his power.

The part I didn't like was when he tried to take on the Dominion himself while the Federation and Romulans were still busy adjusting to the Breen weapon. He was always shown as power hungry, but not stupid enough to think that this action wouldn't lead to his own destruction.

 

[t_smitts]

I disagree. Gowron's always been a bit sketchy. It's just that throughout TNG, he had the Duras family to make him look good by comparison.

In his very first appearance, he tried to bribe K'Ehleyr into convincing Picard to favor him, something that disgusted K'Ehleyr. He also didn't restore Worf's honor until it suited him, and he conveniently omitted any Federation assistance from the official accounts after the civil war.

Throughout TNG and DS9, he was usually smart and pragmatic enough to be reasoned with, but ultimately, he was all about making himself look good.

By the later episodes of DS9, Martok had been well established as a far more humble fellow, more interested in getting the job done than in enhancing his own reputation (he wasn't even happy about being promoted to Supreme Commander because of all the paperwork). Ultimately, I think the Empire might be in better hands.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I always got the impression his motives and actions were always very self-centred (he is a politician after all), so his trying to discredit the more popular Martok fits with what I expected from him.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Gowron's crime was ambition. We saw it in TNG and watched it get worse on DS9.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Trying to discredit Martok was not at all out of character for him, but not waiting until the Federation and Romulans finished their repairs to begin an assault the Dominion was beneath his previously established intelligence level. He was always a selfish pragmatist and that was not at all pragmatic.

 

[wulfio]

agree with Jirin.

 

[MacLeod]

He was a politician looking our for number one, himself. Sure some of his decisions were ill advised such as not waiting until the Federation and Romulan fleets were back in the fight but DSN and TNG to a lesser extent showed the Klingon Empire in somewhat of a decline, looking back to the past and glorious victories etc..

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In the end, Worf thought enough of Gowron to perform the death howl for him, so I guess Gowron still died with honor even after all the stunts he pulled.

 

[urbandefault]

Gowron had the crazy eyes, not to mention the weird accent. He always creeped me out. Probably Worf too.

 

[Timo]

Would Gowron's pushing on with attack against the Dominion really have been a bad move? He could probably afford to lose a few ships, and he would benefit from forcing his political opponents to either die in the battlefield or then ruin their own reputations by refusing. It's not as if he wouldn't have been attacking in any case, and it's not as if a slightly more aggressive attack profile would really cost him significantly more ships.

It does sound like a smart move to start attacking when the Breen weapon has rendered defense a hopeless endeavor. Spreading out the Klingon ships to patch up holes left by UFP and Romulan ships would probably be more deadly to those ships than outright attack - and only attack would stand a chance of making the Dominion cease its own offensive or at least redirect some of the forces to defensive tasks.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Gowron had the crazy eyes, not to mention the weird accent. He always creeped me out. Probably Worf too.

Chancellor Bug Eyes... *shudders*

 

[SoM]

When we first meet the guy in TNG, he's involved in a power struggle where he bribes, threatens, and apparently also assassinates the previous Chancellor.

I think people tend to forget that all the evidence, scanty as it was, pointed to Gowron being responsible for the poisoning because of what happened with Duras later in the episode...

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Gowron became more power hungry as time went on. So, it wasn't so far-fetched that his decisions became more erratic during the Dominion War.