What if John Williams orchestrated the music of "Star Trek, The Motion Picture"?

[Acenos]

What do you think the Music of the first Star Trek film would sound like if John Williams wrote the score for the film?

For me, personally, I think the score of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" is the closest to what TMP's musical score would sound like if conducted by John Williams. Especially this:

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[Bad Thoughts]

On a strange bit of convergence between Star Trek and Star Wars, John Williams and Alexander Courage orchestrated the film version of Fiddler on the Roof. Maybe a Williams theme would sound more like "Tradition!"

 

[Tosk]

Courage has actually orchestrated for Williams quite a few times. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Home Alone, Harry Potter, Superman, Witches of Eastwick...and they both worked on Lost in Space.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think John Williams is a seminal composer. But I don't think a soundtrack similar to Close Encounters of the Third Kind would've fit Star Trek: The Motion Picture. It's true that V'Ger is ominous, but its also a threat, and I think Jerry Goldsmith's soundtrack captures that.

I haven't seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind since I was in high school. And it was a movie that I watched in class and felt indifferent about. So it didn't grab me and I wasn't fully paying attention to it since we had to watch it. But I don't remember the alien presence feeling like a threat. More like just a mystery. But my memory of that isn't very reliable. So take it with a grain of salt... to put on a pile of mashed potatoes.

 

[plynch]

The ET theme - iirc the closing crsdits are the best? - it is really soaring and wonderful. Would fit the awe mode of STTMP.

Which now I think, was an attempt at a scien e fictiin film as if whizbang Star Wars hadn't happened. Of course without SW, we would have gotten a tv show in the 70s, not a motion pic. But it almost acts as if 2001 was the last big sf blockbuster.

Side note, truly I am disillusioned that Williams didn't do his own orchestrating. That's a big part of what a composer does, that makes his or her sound/identify.

 

[Tosk]

Isn't it typical for film to have additional orchestrators? I believe Williams does do some, but a lot of his film credits have multiple orchestrators listed. And I just noticed that Courage orchestrated for Jerry Goldsmith more than once. (Another Trek family connection.) Including working on Treks 1, 8, and 9.

 

[The Wormhole]

Isn't it typical for film to have additional orchestrators?

Yes, very. To complain about that is like complaining that a writer doesn't also direct.

 

[Admiral Archer]

I'm a bit confused by whether the OP means he wonders what it would sound like if John Williams COMPOSED, or ORCHESTRATED the first Star Trek film score. Those are two very different things.

If it's the latter, then the video below would be a pretty clear indication of what Williams' work would have sounded like.

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[Kor]

I'm a bit confused by whether the OP means he wonders what it would sound like if John Williams COMPOSED, or ORCHESTRATED the first Star Trek film score. Those are two very different things.
...

OP's post says "if John Williams wrote the score for the film." That means composed.
I guess we'll never know for sure.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

I’m happy with the score we got.

 

[Forbin]

Goldsmith is every bit as good as Williams. They're among my top favorite composers, so I'm a little insulted on Jerry's behalf here.
For one thing, we wouldn't have gotten the Klingon Attack theme, which is one of my favorite film pieces ever.

 

[Ghrakh]

 

[plynch]

Wasn't complaining. Disappointed. To me, that's different.

I think orchestrators and arrangers are highly, highly underrated, by the way.
(Arranging tunes people know in novel ways for my jazz quartet was my favorite thing about it.)

I just hold Williams in such high esteem, and a big reason is his (?) arrangements - his sound. Which I will still assume is mainly his.

 

[ananta]

Williams has written some of the most iconic scores in a Hollywood history. But I’m glad we had Jerry Goldsmith. His score is breathtakingly gorgeous and one of the reasons this is low key my favourite Trek film and the one I go back to rewatch the most. Ilia’s theme is one of my favourite pieces of music period, so incredibly beautiful. And it also provided us with what would become better known as TNG’s theme music (sparing us the cheesy Galaxy Quest-eque theme Dennis Mccarthy wrote for it). I just thoroughly adore Goldsmith’s work on TMP.

 

[Damian]

You know, I never really thought about that. John Williams is an iconic composer--Star Wars, Jaws, Close Encounters....and he even composed the music for the last Hitchcock Film "Family Plot"--a hidden gem of his and he captured the spirit of that film perfectly (sorry, a big Hitchcock fan so had to throw that in ).

But I always felt Jerry Goldsmith is another iconic composer--in fact sometimes I feel like he doesn't get enough accolades himself. He had some iconic scores and he had a unique sound. I love the movie "Poltergeist" and he had a great score for that film. You could hear his music without seeing the credits and know 'Jerry Goldsmith did the music for this movie/show'. His score for TMP and the other Trek films he did were excellent. I frequently have read he was one of the few bright spots to critics for TFF. For all that films faults the score is always considered one of the movies strengths.

I remember reading that when James Horner didn't want to do TUC that Meyer had then asked Goldsmith if he wanted to do it--I have sometimes wondered what a Goldsmith scored TUC would sound like, though Eidelman did a great job in his own right so it's more a curiosity then something I actively wished for.

So at the end of the day I'm happy with the choice of Goldsmith. All the films had good, even great scores, but Goldsmith's stands out always as my favorite. He captured the spirit of Star Trek perfectly with his TMP theme. I'm sure Williams would have done a great job--but Goldsmith was a great choice and I'm glad he was chosen.

 

[Tosk]

But I always felt Jerry Goldsmith is another iconic composer

He absolutely is, Jerry was amazing. But it's hard to compete (in the general public's eye) with the man who scored Star Wars and Indiana Jones and Superman and Jaws. Just those three alone managed that crossover where everyone knew the music the moment they heard it. To use Jaws as an example, how many composers could manage to make just the first two notes so instantly recognizable to so many people?

 

[Damian]

He absolutely is, Jerry was amazing. But it's hard to compete (in the general public's eye) with the man who scored Star Wars and Indiana Jones and Superman and Jaws. Just those three alone managed that crossover where everyone knew the music the moment they heard it. To use Jaws as an example, how many composers could manage to make just the first two notes so instantly recognizable to so many people?

Yeah, no doubt John Williams is at the top of the heap of composers.

It just always seemed Goldsmith didn't get enough recognition. He does lack the 'iconic' scores that Williams does, the theme from TMP is probably his most recognizable actually. Which is why Williams is probably the #1 guy. But Goldsmith I would put in the top 3. Partly that's because while Goldsmith doesn't have those iconic scores, he does have a certain sound that makes his music easily recognizable. Even when it's vastly different musical scores--Alien, Logan's Run, Poltergeist, Planet of the Apes---they're all very different types of movies but you still know it's Goldsmith doing the music. It's not even that easy to explain what that sound is, it's just there, almost intangible.

But as to the original question--I'm very happy to have Goldsmith as a composer of many of the Star Trek films. Having a top 3 guy (IMO) doing your music is still superb quality. And in fairness, music has never been an issue in any Star Trek film. They've all done great jobs.

 

[Tosk]

while Goldsmith doesn't have those iconic scores, he does have a certain sound that makes his music easily recognizable. Even when it's vastly different musical scores--Alien, Logan's Run, Poltergeist, Planet of the Apes---they're all very different types of movies but you still know it's Goldsmith doing the music.

I agree, that's one of the reasons I love his stuff so much. And it's the one thing he did better than Williams ever has...he diversified his sound. From across my faves, stuff like The Omen, The 'burbs, Innerspace, Explorers, Air Force One, Total Recall (although one point off for that way-too-obvious lift of Basil Poledouris' Conan score), Powder, Mulan, The Shadow, and obviously all his Trek stuff is fab. I even love his synth-heavy phase, which I know isn't for everyone. (Special mention to his unreleased Alien Nation score.)

I can think of at least one Goldsmith theme that Normals recognize right away. Gremlins.

 

[Damian]

I agree, that's one of the reasons I love his stuff so much. And it's the one thing he did better than Williams ever has...he diversified his sound. From across my faves, stuff like The Omen, The 'burbs, Innerspace, Explorers, Air Force One, Total Recall (although one point off for that way-too-obvious lift of Basil Poledouris' Conan score), Powder, Mulan, The Shadow, and obviously all his Trek stuff is fab. I even love his synth-heavy phase, which I know isn't for everyone. (Special mention to his unreleased Alien Nation score.)

I can think of at least one Goldsmith theme that Normals recognize right away. Gremlins.

It's incredible in a way to think about the sheer number of scores Goldsmith has done. Way back in the Twilight Zone days in the early 1960s and all the movies he has done since then. So I guess in a way while he may not have gotten quite the recognition I thought he deserved all the time, film producers/directors saw Goldsmith as a great composer since he was frequently a go to guy.

He did some great movies, and yes, some not so great movies. But his score could lift even a bad movie. It could be the worse movie in the world but people would say 'at least the music score was good'. "The Illustrated Man" from 1969 comes to mind--not a well regarded movie but the music was still good (though I admit with all it's faults I kind of liked "The Illustrated Man"). And he always had the right music for a movie or a scene. He did an excellent job with "Planet of the Apes" for instance--and you could hear his influence even on the Apes movies he didn't do and the TV series.

Hell, even James Horner in TWOK lifted his V'Ger bass sound in the Mutara Nebula scene--and again in TSFS. And pieces of his music are reminiscent of Goldsmith--I'd say Goldsmith was one of Horner's influences (also Horner's music from Aliens references Goldsmith's Alien music at times).

 

[BK613]

@Damian Goldsmith does have a resume with a wide range of movie and TV genres on it.