What if Ceti Alpha 6 did not explode?

[dswynne1]

Would Khan Noonien Singh and his crew still seek revenge on Kirk, for be stranded on Ceti Alpha 5? Would Khan be able to keep his innate ambitions intact?

Considering that those Ceti eels existed before the planetary shift, I would think that a number of people would have still died, including Marla McGivers. The only way I can see Khan going after Kirk, is if he manages to trick a passing ship into thinking that it was an Earth colony that had been "lost", so I doubt that the USS Reliant would be involved. And that means that there wouldn't be a Genesis Device at work. Best scenario would be Khan being more methodical in his quest for vengeance, if he was even that patient.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

He probably would've still wanted revenge, but would be stuck on Ceti Alpha V with no means of escape.

 

[Damian]

I don't believe Khan would have been obsessed with vengeance in that case. I think escape would always be at the back of his mind, but his focus probably would have been 'taming' his new world.

In Greg Cox's "To Reign in Hell" Khan's obsession was a gradual thing. At first he was angry that the Enterprise exiled him to a planet near another unstable planet. But he figured some ship would be by to check up on him and his people and then would relocate them to another suitable planet. His anger gradually started building as the years went by without rescue. Then his wife dying pushed him over the edge.

But for those initial 6 months he was looking forward to building his 'empire' on his own world. The Ceti Eels were a problem but they had taken some precautions if I remember correctly (after the disaster they became a bigger problem).

His initial impulse in "Space Seed" was his ambition and desire to rule. Had there been no disaster I don't think revenge would have been much an issue. I think he would have focused on making a life for his people and maintaining his rule.

 

[Timo]

Regarding the eels, those seemed to live in the sand rather exclusively, and by design. Khan's original settlement probably wouldn't be on sand. It's only with the ecodisaster that sand becomes his only garden decorating option, invading his little paradise and supposedly bringing the eels with it.

But Kirk made no promises to Khan, gave no hint that he would take steps to ensure Khan's well-being or survival. Quite to the contrary, Kirk abandoned Khan to die, with the option of breeding before perishing, and Khan was fine with it. Khan wouldn't be the type to expect help from others anyway. So his desire for revenge might well be utterly independent of what actually happened to him down on CA V.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Commishsleer]

If Ceti Alpha 6 did not explode then presumably the Reliant would have explored Ceti Alpha 6 and suggested it as a suitable planet.
If Khan was alive and presumably well on 5 then he might have been happy building a kingdom there after getting the Ceti Eels under control.and not have bothered Kirk aain. However no matter how splendid life was on on 5 I think he would have tried to build a galactic powerbase on 5. First by attracting a ship there. Then using the ship to visit other planets and then getting more ships. Perhaps he would have built a kingdom outside Federation territory.
I don't think he would have pursued Kirk under these circumstances. Unless it was to show off his power.

 

[uniderth]

I think Khan's desire for revenge mainly came about after Ceti Alpha V was laid to waste. One of Khan's major complaints is that Kirk never sent a ship to check on them. Because if he had they would have discovered the devastation and relocated them.

I'd argue that the Ceti eels were not a problem until after the devastation which happened only six months after they were left there. However they probably would have largely died off in the devastation seeing as Khan's people would have been the only lifeforms left for the eels to infest to reproduce.

Then for whatever reason, Khan decided to keep the last two as pets. Maybe he still expected a ship to come by and check on them and he has a special treat in store.

 

[Kemaiku]

Reliant would have wondered why there were two Ceti Alpha 6's

We still need to know why a planet just ups and explodes with no cause like that. Or why a science vessel doesn't notice a planetary debris ring and a dislodged planet from where it was the last two times a Starfleet vessel was there.

 

[Kor]

Apparently there were no beacons warning passing ships away from the Ceti Alpha system, so there's a chance that they could have commandeered a starship and went on some attempt to conquer the universe.

Kor

 

[Timo]

Only if said ship took an active role in the contacting. It's not as if Khan could signal them or anything. I mean, he could build a radio easily enough, but Starfleet is probably the only party bothering to listen to radio at that day and age, and the signals wouldn't get far.

Who else would be interested in visiting the settlement but the altruist researchers of the Federation? Perhaps somebody in an acute need of slave labor in small doses?

We still need to know why a planet just ups and explodes with no cause like that.

I doubt the explanation would be particularly interesting, though. Stuff in Trek explodes a lot, is all. Could be the reason is exotic and even exciting, but it's pretty unlikely to be related to anything, in-universe.

Or why a science vessel doesn't notice a planetary debris ring and a dislodged planet from where it was the last two times a Starfleet vessel was there.

What science vessel? The Reliant was a combatant on par with Kirk's ship, and on a top secret errand to test a potential superweapon, hidden from Kirk's view so that the encounter near Mutara totally surprised the good guys. Remember why Kirk got permission to sort out Carol Marcus' odd bureaucratic problems? Because his ship was "the nearest". The Reliant didn't officially exist.

I bet Captain Terrell was under orders not to waste any time in scientific surveys, or even to break emission silence with unnecessary scans!

Also noteworthy is that Starfleet has no records on the Ceti Alpha system, beyond "there's a desert planet there". If it did have data on Ceti Alpha VI, it would already know whether this place was suitable for Genesis testing or not - no need to send a starship there. So either Kirk didn't perform any scans in "Space Seed", either, or then he refrained from mentioning his visit to the place altogether in his logs.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kemaiku]

What science vessel? The Reliant was a combatant on par with Kirk's ship, and on a top secret errand to test a potential superweapon, hidden from Kirk's view so that the encounter near Mutara totally surprised the good guys. Remember why Kirk got permission to sort out Carol Marcus' odd bureaucratic problems? Because his ship was "the nearest". The Reliant didn't officially exist.

That is the weirdest fucking take on anything in TWoK I've ever seen.

 

[uniderth]

Only if said ship took an active role in the contacting. It's not as if Khan could signal them or anything. I mean, he could build a radio easily enough, but Starfleet is probably the only party bothering to listen to radio at that day and age, and the signals wouldn't get far.

Which makes me wonder what happened to the Botany Bay. We know they had the cargo pods. But did the Enterpise land it with a tractor beam, deorbit it, was it left in orbit, or did Kirk take it back to a museum?

 

[Timo]

Those aren't Botany Bay pods - they have Federation logos stenciled on (even though those are impossible to see in the movie), and are identical in shape (although perhaps not in size) to the ones seen in ST:TMP in the cargo bay.

I doubt Kirk ever went back for the ship. Khan transferred his crew aboard Kirk's ship, and no doubt brough along stuff that mattered to him. Not weapons, since Khan would appreciate the superiority of what Kirk had to offer to him. But Khan's stack of books, tied together with a Botany Bay cargo strap, could well have been transferred at that point.

Khan wouldn't have colonizing supplies with him: the idea of founding a colony came from Kirk and surprised Khan...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[uniderth]

Those aren't Botany Bay pods - they have Federation logos stenciled on (even though those are impossible to see in the movie), and are identical in shape (although perhaps not in size) to the ones seen in ST:TMP in the cargo bay.

I doubt Kirk ever went back for the ship. Khan transferred his crew aboard Kirk's ship, and no doubt brough along stuff that mattered to him. Not weapons, since Khan would appreciate the superiority of what Kirk had to offer to him. But Khan's stack of books, tied together with a Botany Bay cargo strap, could well have been transferred at that point.

Khan wouldn't have colonizing supplies with him: the idea of founding a colony came from Kirk and surprised Khan...

Timo Saloniemi

They may have the same shape as Federation container but why would a cargo strap with the name SS Botany Bay on it be integrated onto the wall of the cargo pod? Was this Khan's favorite cargo strap?

 

[Timo]

A cargo pod would not have interiors. Khan would build his own furniture, just like he built his own checkers set. And using the cargo strap he used for securing his books for building the bookshelf seems, well, natural.

(In other places, we see e.g. a plate saying STARFLEET somethingorother being welded or glued to the wall at a ninety degree angle, another example of Khan making use of labeled items in interior decorating.)

I guess it's theoretically possible that Earth still uses 1990s containers in the 2270s. But the set was certainly built with TMP in mind - the pods are connected by the workbee train spine structure, even! Again something difficult to see in the movie, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

The Reliant didn't officially exist.

SAAVIK: It's one of ours, admiral. ...It's Reliant.

 

[T'Bonz]

The rolleyes was not necessary and personal. Please refrain from doing that again. If someone is wrong, simply correct them.

 

[Kor]

The Enterprise was officially the closest ship to Regula I because Reliant was supposed to be in its assigned area in a different sector, not because Reliant was classified out of official existence. So that means Ceti Alpha is farther from Regula I than Earth is.

Kor

 

[MAGolding]

...I bet Captain Terrell was under orders not to waste any time in scientific surveys, or even to break emission silence with unnecessary scans!

Also noteworthy is that Starfleet has no records on the Ceti Alpha system, beyond "there's a desert planet there". If it did have data on Ceti Alpha VI, it would already know whether this place was suitable for Genesis testing or not - no need to send a starship there. So either Kirk didn't perform any scans in "Space Seed", either, or then he refrained from mentioning his visit to the place altogether in his logs.

Timo Saloniemi

To refresh everyone's memories, while deciding what to do with Khan & Co. in "Space Seed":

KIRK: Mister Spock, our heading takes us near the Ceti Alpha star system.
SPOCK: Quite correct, Captain. Planet number five there is habitable, although a bit savage, somewhat inhospitable.
KIRK: But no more than Australia's Botany Bay colony was at the beginning. Those men went on to tame a continent, Mister Khan. Can you tame a world?

So that certainly implies that Starfleet already has records of the Ceti Alpha system. Which of course will include records of the orbits of the various planets sufficient to compute their future positions for many years, decades,and centuries to come.

So the mission of the Reliant at Ceti Alpha would be to scan one or more planets there very thoroughly - more so than the Enterprise or any other ship ever did - in hope of finding one good enough to be made habitable by Genesis but totally devoid of preexisting life.

 

[Marsden]

Genesis turned out to be so unstable, if they did use it on 6 it certainly would have ruined Khan's nation anyway, maybe worse. But it would be nice if Chekov and Kyle knew how to count. If only The Count or even Grover were there to help.
1 2 3 4 5 6 six planets! Ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[Nyotarules]

Admiral Marcus would have given Khan a job in his little section