What are junior officers?

[RB_Kandy]

For a long time I assumed a senior officer was the highest ranking officers. But then I began to believe that junior officers were just ordinary officers, and senior officers were heads of a department.

I tried googling senoir and junoir officers of the military, but found what little information I could get to be confusing.

What is a junior officer, and what is their function?

 

[Timo]

In most English-speaking militaries, it appears to simply be a division to lower and higher officer ranks: junior is Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander (or their Army or Air Force equivalents) and down, while senior is Lieutenant Commander or Captain (or their Army or Air Force equivalents) and up. In that sense, Kirk and Picard might have had quite a few senior officers who weren't necessarily department heads - at least if we take Lieutenant as the dividing line.

But for the purposes of Star Trek, I guess what works better is that you can also get senior status by being of the highest rank in your own department, making Ensign Kim the senior of the Ops department even though just about everybody else outranked him. It's not really in contradiction with the varied real-world definitions.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[R. Star]

In Star Trek if you're in the main credits you're a senior officer.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In Trek, the senior staff seems to be the various department heads, irrespective of rank (hence, inclusion of Ensign-for-life Harry Kim)

...and Wesley. Head of the department of dipshits.

 

[The Wormhole]

In Star Trek if you're in the main credits you're a senior officer.

Yeah, that's basically it. After all, how else can you have fresh out of the Academy Ensign Harry Kim and Ensign Nog and teenaged Acting Ensign Wesley Crusher on the senior staff?

 

[MacLeod]

Neither Nog or Wesley were senior officers. At the bear minimum to be classed as senior officer/staff it would be department head.

 

[The Wormhole]

There was a season 7 episode of DS9 where Sisko called a meeting of the "senior staff" which Nog showed up for. And Wesley was placed in command of an assignment in TNG season 2 over commisioned officers.

 

[Use of Time]

In most English-speaking militaries, it appears to simply be a division to lower and higher officer ranks: junior is Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander (or their Army or Air Force equivalents) and down, while senior is Lieutenant Commander or Captain (or their Army or Air Force equivalents) and up. In that sense, Kirk and Picard might have had quite a few senior officers who weren't necessarily department heads - at least if we take Lieutenant as the dividing line.

But for the purposes of Star Trek, I guess what works better is that you can also get senior status by being of the highest rank in your own department, making Ensign Kim the senior of the Ops department even though just about everybody else outranked him. It's not really in contradiction with the varied real-world definitions.

Timo Saloniemi

In US militaries a Junior Officer is between 01-02. 2LT-1LT and ENS-LTJG. An 0-3 CAPT or LT is not considered a junior officer.

 

[Pavonis]

There was a season 7 episode of DS9 where Sisko called a meeting of the "senior staff" which Nog showed up for.

Well, just because Nog was attending a senior staff meeting, that doesn't mean he was necessarily on the senior staff. If I attend a board meeting of my company, that doesn't mean I'm on the board, just that the meeting involves me in some way.

 

[MacLeod]

There was a season 7 episode of DS9 where Sisko called a meeting of the "senior staff" which Nog showed up for. And Wesley was placed in command of an assignment in TNG season 2 over commisioned officers.

As someone has already pointed out, anyone could be asked to attend a meeting, it doesn't mean anything.

As for Wes being placed in command of an assignment, It once again means nothing. Now I haven't seen the episode in years Pen Pals" but wasn't it part of a development programme for him?

And what about O'Brien on DSN, an NCO who is a department head and who seemingly has officers reporting directly to him.

So it appears in the world of ST that whilst rank is important, position is just as important.

 

[Use of Time]

There was a season 7 episode of DS9 where Sisko called a meeting of the "senior staff" which Nog showed up for. And Wesley was placed in command of an assignment in TNG season 2 over commisioned officers.

As someone has already pointed out, anyone could be asked to attend a meeting, it doesn't mean anything.

As for Wes being placed in command of an assignment, It once again means nothing. Now I haven't seen the episode in years Pen Pals" but wasn't it part of a development programme for him?

And what about O'Brien on DSN, an NCO who is a department head and who seemingly has officers reporting directly to him.

So it appears in the world of ST that whilst rank is important, position is just as important.

Yeah, the O'Brien thing makes no sense.

 

[Pavonis]

Of course it makes sense. O'Brien's an experienced NCO with at least 20 years in the service. A junior officer would be wise to learn from experienced NCOs, and would find it a bad idea to try to order one around.

 

[CoveTom]

In Star Trek, rank seems to be far less important than position. I don't know if that's true in real life militaries or not. But O'Brien is Chief of Operations of the station and Chief Engineer of the Defiant. Therefore, those who work in operations/engineering report to him and he can issue them orders, even if they outrank him and even if they are officers. Similarly, Harry Kim is the Operations Officer aboard Voyager and can issue orders to those working under him, even though he is an ensign and they may outrank him.

 

[Use of Time]

Of course it makes sense. O'Brien's an experienced NCO with at least 20 years in the service. A junior officer would be wise to learn from experienced NCOs, and would find it a bad idea to try to order one around.

No it doesn't actually. I became a Platoon Leader at the age of 22 with a Platton Sergeant that was pushing 40. I took full advantage of his weatlh of knowledge but the platoon was still under my command.

I'm not saying it would be wise to order O'Brien around like he's a private or anything but having officers REPORT to him is incorrect. An officer would be more like an administrator anyway than a hands on kind of guy. More of a director of what needs to be accomplished and where to direct manpower. I would definitely rely on O'Brien's expertise when making decisions especially if I was an ENS but I wouldn't be reporting to him. When in charge, be in charge is drilled into officer's heads at a young age.

Then again this is Starfleet so who knows what kind of crazy chain of command they have.

 

[MacLeod]

You say "when in charge be in charge", which is perfectly true. But if you are told that this guy will be in charge by your superiors. Do you ignore that because you outrank theat guy?

 

[Use of Time]

You say "when in charge be in charge", which is perfectly true. But if you are told that this guy will be in charge by your superiors. Do you ignore that because you outrank theat guy?

I'm not debating that; simply because my own two eyes have shown me that O'Brien is somehow Chief of Operations and Chief Engineer of the Defiant for some reason. I'm just saying it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in comparison with how the military works. The simple rationilization is that Starfleet obviously does what they want. (Or the writers are unfamiliar with modern day chain of command)

 

[Pavonis]

Of course it makes sense. O'Brien's an experienced NCO with at least 20 years in the service. A junior officer would be wise to learn from experienced NCOs, and would find it a bad idea to try to order one around.

No it doesn't actually. I became a Platoon Leader at the age of 22 with a Platton Sergeant that was pushing 40. I took full advantage of his weatlh of knowledge but the platoon was still under my command.

I'm not saying it would be wise to order O'Brien around like he's a private or anything but having officers REPORT to him is incorrect. An officer would be more like an administrator anyway than a hands on kind of guy. More of a director of what needs to be accomplished and where to direct manpower. I would definitely rely on O'Brien's expertise when making decisions especially if I was an ENS but I wouldn't be reporting to him. When in charge, be in charge is drilled into officer's heads at a young age.

Then again this is Starfleet so who knows what kind of crazy chain of command they have.

Which ensigns reported to O'Brien? Nog? Maybe a few ensigns in the early seasons of DS9? Were they really reporting to the Chief, or were they learning something from him?

We saw lots of officers doing hands-on work in Star Trek; Picard loved to see his junior officers getting hands-on experience with systems. Sisko probably did, too. Or, the ensigns and lieutenants that were seen "working" for the Chief were there to learn about Cardassian systems - a great chance for Starfleet engineering officers to learn more about Cardassian engineering practices. Maybe some of them were intelligence officers?

Star Trek really didn't introduce enlisted characters until they had settled on O'Brien being an NCO. After that issue was resolved, O'Brien had plenty of enlisted folks under his authority, both on the station and on Defiant, and we didn't see many incongruous situations with ensigns and lieutenants taking orders from a Chief.

 

[MacLeod]

The real issue with O'Brien is that they messed up. He was in what some 50-60 episodes of TNG, clearly displaying the rank pip of an Ensign in the pilot, before becoming a Lt, during his days as Transporter Chief.

It was really on DSN that he became an NCO (dispite maybe 1 or two refferences in TNG),

 

[Use of Time]

Of course it makes sense. O'Brien's an experienced NCO with at least 20 years in the service. A junior officer would be wise to learn from experienced NCOs, and would find it a bad idea to try to order one around.

No it doesn't actually. I became a Platoon Leader at the age of 22 with a Platton Sergeant that was pushing 40. I took full advantage of his weatlh of knowledge but the platoon was still under my command.

I'm not saying it would be wise to order O'Brien around like he's a private or anything but having officers REPORT to him is incorrect. An officer would be more like an administrator anyway than a hands on kind of guy. More of a director of what needs to be accomplished and where to direct manpower. I would definitely rely on O'Brien's expertise when making decisions especially if I was an ENS but I wouldn't be reporting to him. When in charge, be in charge is drilled into officer's heads at a young age.

Then again this is Starfleet so who knows what kind of crazy chain of command they have.

Which ensigns reported to O'Brien? Nog? Maybe a few ensigns in the early seasons of DS9? Were they really reporting to the Chief, or were they learning something from him?

We saw lots of officers doing hands-on work in Star Trek; Picard loved to see his junior officers getting hands-on experience with systems. Sisko probably did, too. Or, the ensigns and lieutenants that were seen "working" for the Chief were there to learn about Cardassian systems - a great chance for Starfleet engineering officers to learn more about Cardassian engineering practices. Maybe some of them were intelligence officers?

Star Trek really didn't introduce enlisted characters until they had settled on O'Brien being an NCO. After that issue was resolved, O'Brien had plenty of enlisted folks under his authority, both on the station and on Defiant, and we didn't see many incongruous situations with ensigns and lieutenants taking orders from a Chief.

There are several engineering officer's on the Defiant and DS9. Who else do they report to? O'Brien is in charge of both. If they wanted to go the NCO route they should have portrayed him more as an NCO. They could have shown him frustrated by taking orders from a young new officer or even guiding a new officer. His character on DS9 could be wearing LCDR pips and you would never know the difference. He's just another member of the senior staff. The closest he's ever been to be being portrayed as an NCO was as a transporter chief on the Enterprise.

 

[Pavonis]

There are several engineering officer's on the Defiant and DS9. Who else do they report to? O'Brien is in charge of both.

Are you sure they're officers? Muniz was a crewman in the Defiant's engineering crew. There were other crewmen about, too. And we don't know that the Bajoran engineers were officers, do we? We know Rom was an enlisted engineer in the station's engineering crew.

If they wanted to go the NCO route they should have portrayed him more as an NCO. They could have shown him frustrated by taking orders from a young new officer or even guiding a new officer. His character on DS9 could be wearing LCDR pips and you would never know the difference. He's just another member of the senior staff. The closest he's ever been to be being portrayed as an NCO was as a transporter chief on the Enterprise.

O'Brien, frustrated? Why would he be frustrated by an officer - the station gave him enough grief as it was! He'd hardly notice an officer giving orders to him. Besides, Starfleet is "supposed" to be more egalitarian than the US military.

I can only imagine that O'Brien was assigned to DS9 because he was one of the most experienced people when it came to Cardassian technology, probably due to his experience with them during the border wars. And, as before, it wasn't really settled that O'Brien was enlisted until about the 6th season of TNG, when Lt. j.g. Barclay orders him around. They did work it out later, and he did have crewmen under his authority later on in the show.

It's not a perfect explanation, and it's going to seem odd when compared to modern military practices, but hey, we don't worry about whether officers have noble blood nowadays, either. In the future, they'll have different priorities.