Was Threshold really that bad?

[TiberiusK]

I didn't think it was that bad, at least prior to the slug sex with Janeway. The warp 10 barrier brainstorm with Neelix was cute, and it had an interesting premise, as far as Paris' superiority complex at evolving, etc.

Come on! Someone defend me here before I get lynched.

 

[DarthTom]

TiberiusK said:


Come on! Someone defend me here before I get lynched.

The only help you get is in TNG's final episode, Riker asks the helmsmen to go Warp 12. Voyager establishes Warp 10 as infinite velocity which makes sense.

In Star Trek V the film, the Enterprise seems to travel to the center of the galaxy in a matter of hours.

Both of those plot fuckups make Threshold more plausible - in terms of speed problems.

The alien's they turned into, you're on your own.

 

[phrog]

To answer the subject line question... yes.

Let's see... Brannon Braga doesn't understand how evolution works and thus the main thrust of the story is just silly. You don't just poof and evolve into something for the hell of it, it's a process of natural selection. Outside forces dictate evolutionary progress. Might that mean evolving into lizards having sex in the mud? Maybe. But not just because he went really really fast in a ship.

Then there's the simple problem of this episode solving the entire problem of being stuck in the Delta Quadrant. They *CAN* break the Threshold, they just turn into lizard people... a problem the Doctor is able to cure. So heck, do it for a few seconds, pop out in the alpha quadrant and then have the doctor fix everybody up like he does to Janeway and Paris. The hamfisted feeling of "there's just some places man wasn't meant to go" at the end is ridiculous. As stated in the episode (if I remember correctly) all they needed to do was figure out how to steer. The only negative thing that was seen to happen was reversible by the end of the episode. But it's never even considered again. Lame.

On top of it all, I just feel embarrassed for those acting in this episode, especially Robert Duncan McNeill who is clearly trying his ass off to make something out of nothing. Same goes for Kate Mulgrew.

Overall a crap episode. One of the few instances I agree with Brannon Braga on a Trek related issue, heh.

 

[Wicca who Wonta]

I don't think that it was the worst episode ever but it was pretty bad. And they went too far with the lizzard baby thing. Also, I don't think that it's probable that people would deevolve like that, especially not in the speed they did.

 

[DarthTom]

phrog said:
To answer the subject line question... yes.

Let's see... Brannon Braga doesn't understand how evolution works and thus the main thrust of the story is just silly. You don't just poof and evolve into something for the hell of it, it's a process of natural selection. Outside forces dictate evolutionary progress. Might that mean evolving into lizards having sex in the mud? Maybe. But not just because he went really really fast in a ship.

Using the evolutionary problems as one's only argument makes a bunch of episodes suck just as much. We see, time and again in all 4 of the series species make sudden miraculous evolutionary leaps in the course of days or hours. It's nonsense of course but that's only part of the problem IMHO with this episode.

 

[number6]

It wasn't that bad. People love to overreact.

 

[DarthTom]

Number6 said:
It wasn't that bad. People love to overreact.

What about it did you exactly like?

 

[number6]

DarthTom said:

Number6 said:
It wasn't that bad. People love to overreact.

What about it did you exactly like?

Probably more than most on this forum.

 

[DarthTom]

Number6 said:

Probably more than most on this forum.

Number6 Logic:

Star Trek Voyager is the best TV show ever to flicker on the boob tube. Why is that so. Because Number 6 says it is.

 

[number6]

DarthTom said:

Number6 said:

Probably more than most on this forum.

Number6 Logic:

Star Trek Voyager is the best TV show ever to flicker on the boob tube. Why is that so. Because Number 6 says it is.

Your logic train needs a new engineer.

 

[DarthTom]

Number6 said:
Your logic train needs a new engineer.

I don't think so but since you're obviously not going to share with us what you thought was good about the episode Threshold then why bother?

 

[number6]

Because you're being condescending and rude.

 

[DarthTom]

Number6 said:
Because you're being condescending and rude.

Guess what, civility doesn't make a good argument.

Outside of that I gave compelling reasons why at a minimum the speed problems with the episode was a minimal problem in comparison to TNG and All Good things where Riker says to go 'Warp 12'. And of course Star Trek V where they travel to the center of the Galaxy in a matter of hours.

The evolutionary changes to Tom and Janeway was what made the episode suck for me.

 

[Akiraprise]

Knock the sniping off Number6 and DarthTom, both of you.


As for the original question, this episode isn't that bad and I'm inclined to agree with Number6. I would be interested to actually know your thoughts on this topic Number6, if you care to share them.

It was a silly little episode. Nothing else to get upset about. Braga himself admits it was silly. I get a kick out of it, it's funny. I like the special effects. Tom's tongue falling out, the lizards, Chakotay shooting both of them as soon as he sees them. The story makes no sense, but if an episode can make me laugh chances are I'll watch it again. This is the case with Threshhold.

 

[DarthTom]

Akiraprise said:
The story makes no sense, but if an episode can make me laugh chances are I'll watch it again. This is the case with Threshhold.

On the silly, break canon, lauth-0-meter scale personally [overall Trek] DS9's episode dealing with the Tribbles [forget the name] where they go back in time and make fun of a bunch of shit makes more sense. Worf saying with a stone face about the head ridges - "...We don't talk about it'

In terms of Voyager, Queen of Arachnia has to take that prize IMHO.

That's the problem with Threshold for me is it wasn't even to poke fun at Trek in general or the characters themselves. They took the whole thing seriously and expected the viewer too.

 

[number6]

And the viewers did and apparently still do.

I thought the episode was entertaining.
The Lizard sex at the end is all the proof I need that the episode wasn't taking itself that seriously.

 

[Smiley]

It's not on my list of VOY episodes to never watch again, and most of that is because of Tom Paris. "Threshold" gave the character more dimension, and Robert's acting job was quite good. If you can forget about the last third of the episode, it would actually be one of the season's best episodes.

 

[Wicca who Wonta]

^
I agree! It would have been a better episode if they had gone with another ending.

 

[DarthTom]

Smiley said:
It's not on my list of VOY episodes to never watch again, and most of that is because of Tom Paris. "Threshold" gave the character more dimension, and Robert's acting job was quite good. If you can forget about the last third of the episode, it would actually be one of the season's best episodes.

Agreed. For example, instead of the de-evolution bullshit, why not make Tom visiting the Q or being a time traveler which would IMHO be far more likely than what happened on the episode.

 

[number6]

Or you could just watch a different show.