Why? What could possibly be hard to understand about it?
Having warp storms influence the Immaterium across the boundaries of the universe. Especially as the initial statement wasn’t that Chaos didn’t work, but the warp itself didn’t exist on the Trek side. You were correctly called out for that.
Too bad. That's the way it works. This is the Imperium invading the UFP, not the Imperium and Chaos invading the UFP. If you have problems accepting that model, then consider that the Q said no to daemon, warp storms, and possessions.
Amazingly enough, I don’t really care to limit my suppositions to the only the model that you laid forth.
There’s more interesting ways of looking at it, and exploring how it works and what those rules would be would make for interesting stories themselves.
And yes, I was the one who posited Q stopping the negative effects of Chaos as a way of allowing your framework, even if it is the definition of deus ex machinae.
Of course, since intentional possessions as per what some Inquisitors practice is still an ability of sorts, that can still be used.
Meh. Again, it depends on the metaphysics. Saying that the Q would stop possession would also destroy this ability, and saying they’d stop the Immaterium/Warp interacting with real space if it exists in the Trek side already would stop psyker abilities – they are all based on accessing the higher dimension.
Which of course begs the question why this psychic plane isn’t something that impacts the Trek world in the first place if it always existed.
So again, the metaphysics of how things work have to be defined, and done so in an internally consistent way.
If you want to go meta on it, then you could say that the Immaterium did exist, and the Q (or some other entity) purged it of all Chaos taint millions of years ago so it didn’t affect the development of the races there. Which could then make for an interesting subplot – that the portal was opened as a machination of the Ruinous Powers (probably Tzeentch, that sly devil) in order to bring tainted psykers into the Trek side to allow the Powers a chance to reinfect the pure Immaterium there.
You don't make the OP, I do.
That’s nice. How’s that working out for you?
I am clarifying, that the Warp will not be able to wield its presence in the ST universe as per the warp storms, daemons, and so forth. Imperium abilities and technology however, will work as advertised and warp travel will work as it does in their galaxy.
Yes, and I’m trying to tell you what the problems are with that assumption, and making suggestions on way to craft the story so that at least some aspect of that is available. Indeed, it infers all sorts of other possibilities based on those assumptions.
And how and why you frame the metaphysics will have a huge impact on the type of story told, even if it is simply ‘my starship would beat up your starship.’
Can you be at all specific?
It's not specific, but instead a variable range, and even then that's only 'most of the time.'
Travel across the Imperium can decades. Guess how long it takes a UFP ship to cross the galaxy? Decades.
If it takes the Trek ship 8 decades, and the Imperial Cruiser 2, the Imperial cruiser is considerably faster, wouldn't you say?
And of course I'm talking FTL times. In normal space during battle conditions the Trek ships are both faster and more agile.
But in terms of strategic benefits, especially in logistics and force concentration, that level of advantage is considerable.
Yeah...no. According to the White Dwarf warp speed chart, ships have an average maximum (that is to say, not some oddly absurd result like halfway across the galaxy in five minutes) velocity of 12,000c, an average velocity of 6,000c, and a minimal average velocity of 2,000c. Velocities can of course, vary slightly from where you are, current warp storms, and so forth.
I’ve never seen hard and fast numbers stating specific C such as that in any official capacity. Care to cite the source? Normally the response given by Games Workshop is intentionally nonspecific, as they don't want any 'gotcha' moments in their rabid fan base.
The chart I occasionally see cited is in White Dwarf 139. It gave the following:
Average time elapsed on a ship during warp travel:
1 LY = 2-6 minutes
5 LY = 7-30 minutes
10 LY = 14-60 minutes
50 LY = 1.25-4.75 hours
100 LY = 2.5-9.5 hours
500 LY = 12-48 hours
1000 LY = 1-4 days (24-96 hours)
5000 LY = 5-21 days
Average time elapsed in the material world during a warp travel jump
1 LY = 43-270 minutes
5 LY = 3.5-24 hours
10 LY = 7-48 hours
50 LY = 1.5-9 days
100 LY = 3-21 days
500 LY = 2-12 weeks
1000 LY = 1-6 months
5000 LY = 5-36 months
So a difference between subjective times. To the universe at large, a jump of 1000 LY is somewhere between 1-6 months. So 75K light years would be between 6-36 years. At least twice as fast and likely several times faster than the stated velocity for Voyager of 75 years. With the side benefit of the crew not aging anywhere near that amount of time.
But then, THIS isn't always used. 3rd edition of the WH40K rulebook had a map that said Holy Terra to the edge of the galaxy was a year. That is far faster.
And Rogue Trader, the newest source, has this to say:
Rogue Trader RPG rulebook, p184:
Passage within the Warp - Voyage:
- 1 day - short passage between two close systems by a well travelled stable warp route
5-10 days -A journey between systems in the same subsector using accurate navigational information
30-60 days - A journey across the body of a full Imperial Sector (such as Calixis, 200 LY cube) using accurate information and known warp routes.
100+ days - A perilous journey across a Segmentum at best speed avoiding only the worst known hazards
Several Years - An odyssey across the galaxy
So that's a different scale altogether.
Starfleet's closest analogue in the WH40K universe would be the Tau, who also don't use warp/immaterium tech. Because of that they are slow, which has impacted the size of their empire.
Of course, we aren't given any hard numbers on that either.
It's also worth noting that in charted space, Starfleet ships are a great deal faster. So they're probably not all that different in terms of velocities. In the TNG episode (not the movie) First Contact, the Enterprise D had for example, traveled two thousand light years since its first two episodes at Earth:
Even assuming it had traveled in that direction towards the planet they were making contact with, in about half a year that would give the Enterprise D a velocity of 4,000c.
There are other examples, but I tend to shove them towards the side, as in the case of the USS Valiant supposedly circumnavigating the entire UFP in three months:
Travel times in Star Trek lore are all over the place, as are weapons yields, energy figures, and what the ships can do. They never took good care with continuity. There’s nothing in the films or movies that states travel times are faster along ‘warp corridors’, though that’s a popular fan theory to account for the many discrepancies.
Most of the time Trek, like Wars, just drove at the speed of plot. However, an entire series was devoted to the concept that the other side of the Delta Quadrant required a generational concept to traverse back using only normal warp speed. The preponderance of evidence indicates that maximum warp is not several thousand times C.
Personally, I take the average estimates for both, but would have no issues with faster response times in certain areas depending on context and of course plot need.
They're perfectly consistent. There's just no daemons, warp storms, and the like allowed in ST material universe. Assume that the Q protect it, if you have to.
You already stated that warp storms would occur on the Trek side matching with what was going on in the WH40K continuity. Hell, if it is just alternate sides of the same dimensional phenomena, you don’t even need the Wormhole. You could pass through the Immaterium to travel between the realities.
He could try. Unless he finds a man named Archer, he's not going to get lucky in pushing a Vulcan too far unless he has direct access to them.
I’m not sure I have the same faith in Vulcans as you do. Fact is, they are all too mortal, with definite limits, and we’ve seen a wide variety of humanistic frailties among them. We’ve even seen mental illness, such as the sociopathic Vulcan serial killer on DS9, a psychic contagion that can affect them in pa’nar syndrome, and complete irrationality during Pon’far. Heck, the Enterprise episode ‘Impulse’ showed exposure to the ore Trellium can turn them into literal zombies. I think the Ruinous Powers would be able to figure something out.
I prefer Trek over 40K, though they are very different animals. The concepts of the Chaos Gods is one that I find philosophically disturbing, and I think they are poorly written, as the power that they have is not shown to have any definable limits, yet they haven’t defeated the Imperium.
I think in a crossover there would be lots of interesting contrasts to explore, and I enjoy wargaming, so considering the abilities and strategies of the varies factions is of interest to me. I tend to think people underestimate the capabilities of the Federation because they resist their warlike side – any group that can create the Genesis device is one to be feared. However, I also think there are several areas where the Empire of Man has far more capabilities than the Fed, simply in the way the entity was written.
).
Well the upside of that is, we are free to invent our own endings...