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Walking Dead The Ones Who Live

Just watched it. Loved it! Each of the 3 new spinoffs get better and better. The ending really surprised me.

Can't wait for next week.
 
You might have missed (understandably) Walking Dead World Beyond. The CRM totally was behind the destruction of Omaha. The question would be why. Major General Beale seems totally rational and intelligent, from his brief interaction with Rick.
Nope I haven't gotten around to checking out World Beyond yet.
 
Nope I haven't gotten around to checking out World Beyond yet.
Not that it's all that good, but you definitely get a taste of the CRM and what they are setting up. It's too bad they did a 5 year time jump at the start of Those Who Live because it would be nice to see some of the transition from righteous to self-righteous
 
The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live - Season one premiere - "Years"

After brief flashbacks to Rick Grimes's life:
  • Stumbling out of the hospital (TWD - S1 / E1 - "Days Gone Bye").
  • Carl revealing his bite wound (TWD - S8 / E8 - "How It's Gotta Be").
  • The exploding bridge moment (TWD - S9 / E5 - "What Comes After").
  • Quick cuts of Judith (at an age Rick has not yet experienced), and Michonne disagreeing with Rick's belief that they might lose one another one day.
  • Jadis calling for a CRM helicopter to rescue Rick.
  • Judith asking Michonne to find Rick.
  • The Civic Republic soldiers' violent deeds, including a clip of guards attempting to kill Morgan & Grace from "Reclamation" (FTWD - S7 / E6).
Sometime in the present:

Rick: Appearing hopeless, Rick sits on the edge of his apartment bed, watching a CRM newscaster reporting a series of disasters in another city, ranging from mass casualties at a gathering, incursions at the city walls, and detonations. Rick hesitatingly moves a shard of glass to his jugular vein, pressing it into his skin with enough pressure to draw blood. Sighing, Rick lowers the shard, not at all convinced suicide is his answer.

Five Years After The Bridge:

Heading past vast crop fields toward a city's border, a group of "Consignees"--Rick among their number--are armed with axes, each connected to a CRM soldier with a spooled cable attached to their arm; a voice on loudspeaker thanks the Consignees for volunteering to protect the crops, which will speed up their path to citizenship. The Consignees face off against a horde of charred & glowing walkers; Rick moves forward, clearly putting distance between himself and the others, until the spool's cable reaches its end, jerking Rick back to the ground. Rick feigns searching for his axe, but ties off his left, manacled hand at the wrist, before hacking off the hand, and fleeing in agony. Losing blood, he shoves his stump into the flaming innards of a walker, cauterizing it--his screaming drawing the CRM soldiers to his location. Before he can run away, he is Taser-ed into submission.

Dream 1: Rick imagines he's in a park, looking for the location of his new job, when he meets the unnamed "stranger" Michonne. Instantly taken with her, he sits with her--their brief conversation centering on being where they "want to be" and Michonne believing in him (Rick's deepest beliefs / desires fueling the exchange).

Rick and Okafor I: After recovering, Rick is back at one the city walls, aiding other Consignees. Rick's mind recalls (in letters to Michonne) his intention to flee the city in his neverending attempt to return to her. He's studied by Lieutenant Colonel Okafor--one of the central leaders in the CRM, who tries the friendly route with Rick, letting him know that he's lobbying for him with the general of what is possibly the most powerful army on Earth (SEE NOTES). Okafor's taken notice of Rick for some time seeing potential in him, enough to casually talk him out of his break-out attempts, ending their conversation with an offer in the form of a CRM soldier uniform left in Rick's apartment.

Rick and Thorne I: Rick runs into a fellow Consignee, the drunken Thorne, a South African woman (formerly of the S.A. Navy) who thanks Rick for showing her that escape is impossible...

Watching the Philadelphia skyline, Rick is greeted by Esteban, who has always been friendly to Rick, no matter how little Rick ever talked to him. Esteban is in good spirits, as he's earned a transfer to the city, to serve as Deputy Manager of Water and Power of Ward 3, and suggests Rick accepts Okafor's offer to become a soldier, if only for the freedom of the position, which would give Rick more chances to escape.

Rick joins Okafor's group, and is outfitted with a prosthetic black fist, which contains a retractable blade. As Rick trains, he surprised to learn Thorne has signed up as well (contrary to her isolationist behavior from a day before), and along with combat training, Rick learns how to pilot a helicopter (SEE NOTES). Okafor wonders if Rick joining marks the end (of his holding on to his old life), or the start of something else...

Dream 2: In Rick's fantasy, he spends another day with his "new" acquaintance, making plans for future meetings...

Rick and Okafor II: One year later, Okafor leads Rick and Thorne to an abandoned part of the city for a little chat--one far too dangerous to be held on any occupied grounds. Okafor's plan is to train the two to become "force Command" officers in the CRM--the intent being a drastic change in its totalitarian system from within. Thorne questions why would he change a system that is a strong, functioning government, which Rick quickly (and angrily) counters by reminding her that people cannot leave--they are not free. Okafor chimes in, adding that Rick and Thorne are the kind of people who should not be alive, as they're classified as an "A"--individuals who are strong, and would die for what they believes in--the kind of individual others follow. Okafor adds that "B's" found in the world simply want to live, so they are the kind of people the CRM can use, while "A's" are sent away to be killed...except Rick and Thorne, who would be groomed to be "the monsters to fight the monsters".

If Rick and Thorne agree to join and move up the ranks (and idea Rick balks at), only then would they be exposed to secrets, the "whys" contained in "The Echelon Briefing", which Okafor claims is hidden from 90% of the force and the entire civilian population. Rick questions why Okafor would trust him--a man who thinks for himself, which is answered with an obvious observation: if either Rick or Thorne had a chance to save the world (implying the CRM is the means to accomplish that), they would, despite their "A"-level independence.

Rick and Thorne II: Thorne--seemingly committed to Okafor's mission--confronts Rick about his being Hell-bent on returning to his loved ones; she recounts her own history, of being in the South African Navy, being caught at the outbreak of Wildfire, and rescued by Okafor, which--ultimately--forced her to accept she would never see her "someone" or Capetown again. As far as she's concerned, her past life is gone, and she's not going to allow Rick to undermine all she has left. Angered by her presumption about the fate of Rick's loved ones, he gets in her face, assuring her his people are still alive, only for Thorne to conclude that yes, they're still in the world...but she--and Rick--are not, suggesting the outside world believes they are dead and have moved on. Having said that, she offers to help Rick if he needs it.

Rick and Major General Beale: The next day, tension is in the air as insecure looks are exchanged between Okafor and Rick, then the following conversation with Major General Beale as Rick stops to look at the Philadelphia skyline again--

Beale: "Life surrounded by death--all in one view. Isn't that right?"
Rick: "Yes, sir, it is."
Beale: "Another thing we have over Portland and Omaha in our alliance of three is unlike them, we're fairly well hidden without much effort."
Rick: "I saw what Federal forces did to Atlanta. They used Napalm, sir."
Beale: "Monsters. Worse than the delts. But this force--as the Pennsylvania National Guard at the time--we stopped them."
Rick: "How...sir?"
Beale: "Sacrifice. Luck. Calm...and Okafor."
Rick: "Okafor, sir?"
Beale: "He was with their Air Force. He was supposed to bomb the city, but instead, he bombed 4,000 Marines staging at Lincoln Financial Field. He switched sides."
Rick: "Well, I did too. In a way."
Beale: "You and Thorne never would have been allowed into the CRM. You wouldn't have even been let into consignment, but Okafor made a compelling argument. Let me ask you a question, Grimes. I don't expect you to answer, and you don't have to. I'm just gonna ask it and look into your eyes."
Rick: "Yes, sir."
Beale: "Is Okafor up to anything I should know about?"
Rick and Beale together: "No."
Rick (slightly irritated at Beale assuming how Rick would answer): "No."
Beale: "Good, Rick. You asked me how we won. How we survived. How did you survive?"
Rick: "Sacrifice."
Beale: "You tried to escape four times. Why are you here? Do you want to kill? To die? Or is all this just another attempt to escape?"
Rick: "Look in my eyes, sir. You tell me."

Instead of answering, Beale smiles, then sits back on the park bench to enjoy the view with Rick.

Over the weeks, Okafor continues his secret training of Rick and Thorne, drilling their true responsibility into their heads.

Rick visits Esteban in the city's park, and acknowledging that Rick is still trying to escape, yet aware that there's ears all around them, Esteban cleverly pretends to not want to give Rick information on a certain sewer and padlock codes. Esteban understands Rick's desperation, but implores him not to want to die (if all else fails).

Rick and Thorne III: While on a CRM resource run to an abandoned chemical plant, Rick uses Esteban's information to make his escape attempt, but the moment he was set to toss a grenade under a tanker as a diversion, he spots a young girl wandering among a horde of walkers, forcing him to rescue her--the entire scene observed by Thorne. Thorne will not tell Okafor Rick tried to escape again, as she's helping him, adding that Okafor knows about Rick's personal life, and would have come after him...and whoever Rick was trying to return to.

Rick and Okafor III: Confronting Okafor, Rick demands to know how much the Lieutenant Colonel knows about him, and if he's shared this information with anyone else. Okafor--feeling he's in a position of power--taunts Rick, naming Michonne, quoting from the bottled letters Rick tossed into rivers, and suggests he might be able to locate Michonne though her unusual name and the path of his bottled letters, which earns him strikes to the face with Rick's metal hand. Okafur's not finished, adding that if Rick tried to escape again, he would be sent to "erase" him once and for all.

Rick lays out his truth to Okafor--

Rick: "I don't care why you're covered in blood. Why the bombs go out and why they don't come back (SEE NOTES)"
Okafor: "Y-yes you do!"
Rick: "This isn't my city--those aren't my people!"
Okafor: "Everyone are your people. Everyone alive!"
Rick: "THIS ISN'T EVERYTHING!! You don't get to choose for the world!! You don't get to choose for me!"
Okafor: "I don't--you did! you made the choice!"
Rick: "My wife is my choice. My daughter--my life is my choice. You think i went through what I went through...did what I did...to let anyone choose anything for me?"
Okafor: "You made the choice."
Rick: "You live for those people in that city because you've got nothing else but your city! Percentages and yields..."A's" and fucking "B's" Some Goddamned good soldier with NOTHING!"

Rick's analysis pushes Okafur beyond his limits, triggering the man to attack and subdue Rick--

Okafor: "I lost EVERYTHING!! I bombed Atlanta and I bombed Los Angeles, and I was in route to do the same to Philadelphia! Estelle--a Marine named Estelle--that was my wife, and she didn't want to go in to liquidate all the people I didn't manage to liquidate! We didn't want to see, Rick--another city die for nothing! And I had power, and I had a choice...and I killed my wife...and 4,000 other people.

And we saved hundreds of thousands, maybe the whole world with her choice! I tried with you, Rick. I tried."
(SEE NOTES)

Rick: "I'm sorry."
Okafor: "What are you apologizing for?"

Rick breaks free, rising to kill Okafor, who pulls his gun on Rick.

Rick: "Just let me go."
Okafor: "No."

Rick grabs the barrel of Okafor's gun and places it against his forehead.

Rick: "Do it. Please."
Okafor: "I won't. (holding Rick's shoulders) They're still with you. But you fight here, now. You fight for them. You already made the choice. I'm moving you to logistics with Thorne. You're gonna help convert a college in the Cascades to a forward operating base over the next 12 months, battle-ready for the Frontliners. All top CRM commanders will convene a summit there in one year to open the base. You and Thorne will be project lead on the conversion team. This is you getting in. This is the start of your path to the higher echelons of power."
Rick: "I don't want power."
Okafor: "That's the thing: you already have it."

That evening, a breathless Thorne runs to Rick's apartment to watch the CRM newscast covering the destruction of Omaha, and its 90,000 residents. Between Beale's judgement of the partner cities, to Okafor's revealing history bombing cities, Rick has confirmation of how ruthless the CRM is in its isolationist quest for control. Rather than agonize over the massacre, Thorne is certain other cities need to get with the program in order to survive, stating that Omaha was made to pay the price for letting outsiders know where they were, echoing Beale's subtle judgement of the partner cities earlier. Thorne believes Rick can save the world...even if he does not want to.

The timeline circles back to Rick's admitting his love for Michonne, yet failure to return to her. With that, he attempts suicide with a shard of glass, but he considers his destiny, and perhaps Thorne's comments, leading him to lower the shard, not at all convinced suicide is his answer.


NOW:
Piloting a CRM helicopter with Okafor and a couple of soldiers, Rick explains his flashbacks to a burning house: when he was seven years old, he awoke one night to find crops ablaze, running into his father, described as looking like "a monster". His father's rationale--that the fire's damage may look like the end of the world, but it was only the beginning, for next year's harvest (which was the best it would ever be). His father's certainty calmed Rick. But he discovered his father set the fire as a way of saving the farm for the family (implied insurance payout), but his burns reminded him that he saved his family. His father's lesson leads Rick to finally agree to be all in with the CRM.

Okafor believes Rick is the right thing for his plans, where the old system of rating people as A's and B's...and annihilating entire cities, although he admits to not knowing how the change will unfold. At that second, a small missile rips though the window and into Okafor's chest, mortally wounding him before the missile explodes, obliterating Okafor's head and upper chest. The explosion damages the helicopter, just as another missile hits the helicopter, forcing the bloody, traumatized Rick to make an emergency landing in a wooded area. Rick orders the surviving soldiers to prepare to engage the enemy, but they are hit by a RPG, and those who were not killed in the blast are run through by a figure with a Katana...

The reunion of Rick and Michonne: Rick--the last survivor--crawls to retrieve his rifle, but is disarmed and kicked to the ground by the sword-wielding assailant; as the assailant removes Rick's mask, the person--now revealed to be Michonne--stumbles backward, not believing her eyes. For his part, Rick stares in shock, unable to utter a word...

NOTES:
After a couple of teases during the run of The Walking Dead, Rick finally loses a hand, mirroring the comic. While Rick's sense of gutting loss and desperation were--as noted above--palpable, I do find his self-amputation extreme for shock's sake, rather than a sound strategy, considering the fact his makeshift tourniquet was not successfully stopping his bleeding, and after his burning walker cauterization, he still passed out. After more than a decade of honing his physical and intellectual survivor's skills, its hard to buy Rick cutting off his own hand as a means to escape the CRM guard's leash, especially when his sharpened axe would have severed the cable with a couple of forceful hacks.

Actor Craig Tate's Okafor is a class on how to build a powerful, single-purpose character: peeling away the layers to reveal he's not only lived though dark times of his own, but instead of being the usual WD psychopath born from the fires of personal loss, he took said loss as the inspiration to turn what he believes is humankind's last, best chance for restoration away from the uncompromising absolutism practiced by its leader, General Beale.
Okafor's mounting pain as he recalled killing his wife fully humanized him, as he--up to this point--seemed to have never had anyone else challenge him on life, death and loved ones, which broke down painful floodgates so sympathetically portrayed, despite the character's history of government-sanctioned mass murder.

So, Okafor's history ties TWD universe together, as he was one of the pilots who bombed Atlanta when Lori, Shane, Carl, Sophia, Carol and Ed watched in disbelief. Similarly, he was responsible for Los Angeles' fiery demise ("Operation Cobalt") as witnessed by Stand, Daniel, Ofelia and the Clark family in FTWD.

Granted, this kind of " change from within" plot is not uncommon in TWD's history (e.g., Milton and Woodbury, Mercer & Maxine with The Commonwealth, et al.), but undoubtedly, Okafor was a character who had more understandable, personal motivations for change, which gave Rick a means of relating, as opposed to seeing his superior only as a wall to knock down in the predictable hero vs. villain story trope.

Romantic relationships across the WD's TV history have not always been strong, believable, or interesting enough to spend script pages on, but Rick and Michonne--the couple initially doubted by a number of TWD viewers as being "unlikely"--feels authentic. Rick's dreams of meeting Michonne (as a mystery woman) in the most domestic, peaceful setting spoke to the depth of the characters' chemistry--how natural a fit they were for each other, even as Rick fantasized about meeting her in a new, dream reality for the first time. Rick's last fantasy (coming right after he's trashed all physical connections to his old life) was all the evidence one needed to know he could not fully commit himself to the CRM, which Okafor--in the last moments of his life--expressed on his face.

The CRM boasts two cities with a population numbering well past 200,000. While this might make the CRM the largest survivor group in TV-TWD history (the Commonwealth communities had more than 50,000 in the Midwest and the South), there's still the question of the numbers comprising the Pouvoir Du Vivant group from Daryl Dixon, which (I believe) had taken over most of Paris and other regions within France, and has an active seafaring fleet and satellite organizations in the United States. At present, its difficult to ascertain the population of Dead City's New Babylon Federation or The Burazi, but The Dama implied the Manhattan-based organization could expand to the north of the city.

Finally, Andrew Lincoln hit it out of the park with his performance, and its many stages of emotional chaos. He has evolved the characterization of Rick Grimes, not content to pick up where the character left off on the parent series. Rick feels like a real person.

Next: "Gone", which picks up on Michonne's quest since leaving Alexandria, and the conflicts she's faced with new allies, who just so happen to be enemies of the CRM...

GRADE: A.
 
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My only complaint is Rick cutting off hand. That made zero sense. I know he was desperate, but that was dumb. Still loved the episode though.
 
I thought TWD was past it's Prime once they got past season 9. I thought I would find Fear interesting, but stopped watching it about four episodes in the season 2 because it just became more of the same for me. The one with the high school kids to me was just laughable. They weren't even trying anymore in my opinion at that point.

I saw Dead City, and the Daryl goes to France series and wasn't impressed by either from their first episodes on. But they were both short enough that I watched them to the end, and my response was 'meh'.

Those Who Live was the first post TWD series that I honestly really enjoyed the first episode of quite a bit. And it's not because it was Rick and Michonne; but because I thought episode was decently written, and I liked the journey that Rick went through in the episode. I was so old that I was actually quite surprised when that helicopter got shot down, but I have to admit as soon as it was shot down and I saw other people coming in to cut down the surviving crew members, you knew that Michonne was going to be one of them and come up and almost skewer Rick before she realized who he was.

And even though yeah, you can call it small Universe syndrome; but I didn't mind it because that just means it's going to move the story along. YMMV.:shrug:

First post TWD Series where I'm actually interested in seeing, and looking forward to episode 2.
 
The timing here, though, is going to be crazy. Because in WOrld Beyond, they also showed the destruction, but also were showing that Portland was next but i don't recall the timeframe of like if that was supposed to happen within the next week, or was there some prep time needed to make that happen. (There was supposed to be some chemicals used but a mian character in World Beyond destroyed them before they could be taken to Portland).
The entire two seasons of World Beyond take place over the course of something like two or three months, according to the series finale.
i wonder if anything from Fear will be mentioned (i.e. i would think they would have noticed a nuclear explosion!)
Given this series seems to take place in the Walking Dead franchise's present, and even the start of this episode is five years after Rick's arrival with the CRM, the nuclear explosion on Fear is already several years in the past and therefore there doesn't seem to be any need to mention it, outside of a throwaway reference to "the radiation zone in Texas" or something.

Though it should be noted, the recap at the start of the episode did include footage from Fear, so they obviously aren't ignoring it.
 
you guys:guffaw:
i wonder if anything from Fear will be mentioned

Okafor tells Rick he was the pilot carrying out the mission Operation Cobalt on Los Angeles, as seen in FTWD, just as he had been responsible for the Napalm drop on Atlanta as seen in season 1 of TWD.
 
Okafor tells Rick he was the pilot carrying out the mission Operation Cobalt on Los Angeles, as seen in FTWD, just as he had been responsible for the Napalm drop on Atlanta as seen in season 1 of TWD.

That's what I don't get. I thought the firebombings of Los Angeles/West Coast and Atlanta/East Coast occurred simultaneously. Although it was shown to be night in L.A. and daytime in Atlanta. So, early morning in Atlanta, middle of the night in L.A.? There's no way those fighter jets could have made it across the United States without midair refueling and stopping somewhere to rearm. It's a logistical nightmare, especially with the way things were shown to be breaking down in the final days before the bombings. I'm sure there would have been mass desertion on the part of the armed forces at that point. Okafor should only have been responsible for the bombing of Atlanta and rebelling against the bombing of Philadelphia.
 
Really random and silly question, when did the Fireplace channel on TV become a thing? I noticed when Rick busted into Okafor's apartment, the TV was on the Fireplace channel? Is that something that was around before 2010 and therefore can exist in the WD world, or did the CRM apparently think it up on their apparent own?
 
Really random and silly question, when did the Fireplace channel on TV become a thing? I noticed when Rick busted into Okafor's apartment, the TV was on the Fireplace channel? Is that something that was around before 2010 and therefore can exist in the WD world, or did the CRM apparently think it up on their apparent own?

I must have been looking at it wrong because I assumed it was an electric fireplace thing. Not a TV
 
I watched the preview yesterday and really didn't learn anything new.
The one thing I'm have a hard time believing, is that in a world 10-15 years into a zombie outbreak, is that there's functional military equipment, or any equipment for that matter..
What always amazes me about these zombie movies is how, well, the zombies win in the end. If humans do one thing well, it's killing other beings, whether they're alive or undead. I can obviously imagine panic and confusion at the beginning, big losses, but not the complete collapse of civilization.
 
The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live - Season one premiere - "Years"

NOTES:
After a couple of teases during the run of The Walking Dead, Rick finally loses a hand, mirroring the comic. While Rick's sense of gutting loss and desperation were--as noted above--palpable, I do find his self-amputation extreme for shock's sake, rather than a sound strategy, considering the fact his makeshift tourniquet was not successfully stopping his bleeding, and after his burning walker cauterization, he still passed out. After more than a decade of honing his physical and intellectual survivor's skills, its hard to buy Rick cutting off his own hand as a means to escape the CRM guard's leash, especially when his sharpened axe would have severed the cable with a couple of forceful hacks.
I understand why everyone is saying that...but i think the point is supposed to show how desperate & hopeless things have become for Rick. We have seen this scenario with Fear....and our heroes letting themselves be subjugated like that for waaaaaay too long. SOmeone had mentioned cutting the cord -- i am assuming it is of strong enough material to resist an ax, which should be just dull enough to to kill Walkers (called "Delts" here.... anyone know why? Deltas?
Actor Craig Tate's Okafor is a class on how to build a powerful, single-purpose character: peeling away the layers to reveal he's not only lived though dark times of his own, but instead of being the usual WD psychopath born from the fires of personal loss, he took said loss as the inspiration to turn what he believes is humankind's last, best chance for restoration away from the uncompromising absolutism practiced by its leader, General Beale.
Okafor's mounting pain as he recalled killing his wife fully humanized him, as he--up to this point--seemed to have never had anyone else challenge him on life, death and loved ones, which broke down painful floodgates so sympathetically portrayed, despite the character's history of government-sanctioned mass murder.
But was Okafor a villain here? Seems more like the hero-mentor / catalyst for Rick to do his thing.
So, Okafor's history ties TWD universe together, as he was one of the pilots who bombed Atlanta when Lori, Shane, Carl, Sophia, Carol and Ed watched in disbelief. Similarly, he was responsible for Los Angeles' fiery demise ("Operation Cobalt") as witnessed by Stand, Daniel, Ofelia and the Clark family in FTWD.

feels like small world syndrome... though the contrast was really good, and we got an understandable breaking point.
Granted, this kind of " change from within" plot is not uncommon in TWD's history (e.g., Milton and Woodbury, Mercer & Maxine with The Commonwealth, et al.), but undoubtedly, Okafor was a character who had more understandable, personal motivations for change, which gave Rick a means of relating, as opposed to seeing his superior only as a wall to knock down in the predictable hero vs. villain story trope.
Yeah, i definitely appreciate his quick development, in a logical way.

You didn't really talk about Beale -- while his appearance is brief, it seems very clear he is a charismatic and smart man. Definitely can be one of the top TWD villains.I think Terry also did a masterclass as well.

I very much hope they will show that Beale was smart enough to know what Okafur was doing, and that perhaps that last mission was intended to get him and RIck killed.... Beale just didn't anticipate RIck could survive the crash but also see his wife just before she would have killed him. (Though that scene would have made more sense if RIck spoke... she had no reason to remove his helmet otherwise)

Hopefully they also show's Beale's conflict --- he is obviously quite grateful for OKafur saving his army, and willing to kill his wife to do so. So he wouldn't have done this lightly.... and hopefully show what kind of strategic value genocide of supposed allies would accomplish h


Romantic relationships across the WD's TV history have not always been strong, believable, or interesting enough to spend script pages on, but Rick and Michonne--the couple initially doubted by a number of TWD viewers as being "unlikely"--feels authentic. Rick's dreams of meeting Michonne (as a mystery woman) in the most domestic, peaceful setting spoke to the depth of the characters' chemistry--how natural a fit they were for each other, even as Rick fantasized about meeting her in a new, dream reality for the first time. Rick's last fantasy (coming right after he's trashed all physical connections to his old life) was all the evidence one needed to know he could not fully commit himself to the CRM, which Okafor--in the last moments of his life--expressed on his face.

The CRM boasts two cities with a population numbering well past 200,000. While this might make the CRM the largest survivor group in TV-TWD history (the Commonwealth communities had more than 50,000 in the Midwest and the South), there's still the question of the numbers comprising the Pouvoir Du Vivant group from Daryl Dixon, which (I believe) had taken over most of Paris and other regions within France, and has an active seafaring fleet and satellite organizations in the United States. At present, its difficult to ascertain the population of Dead City's New Babylon Federation or The Burazi, but The Dama implied the Manhattan-based organization could expand to the north of the city.

I thought the Dama made it sound like they had control of all 5 boroughs of NYC.... even though that first season the focus was on Manhattan, it sounds like they decided to expand the reach.

But also wondering how these major powers are interacting (if at all)
Finally, Andrew Lincoln hit it out of the park with his performance, and its many stages of emotional chaos. He has evolved the characterization of Rick Grimes, not content to pick up where the character left off on the parent series. Rick feels like a real person.

Next: "Gone", which picks up on Michonne's quest since leaving Alexandria, and the conflicts she's faced with new allies, who just so happen to be enemies of the CRM...

GRADE: A.

I thought TWD was past it's Prime once they got past season 9. I thought I would find Fear interesting, but stopped watching it about four episodes in the season 2 because it just became more of the same for me. The one with the high school kids to me was just laughable. They weren't even trying anymore in my opinion at that point.

I saw Dead City, and the Daryl goes to France series and wasn't impressed by either from their first episodes on. But they were both short enough that I watched them to the end, and my response was 'meh'.

That was my view as well.... like i mentioned, it felt like a cash grab/ job security for actors who somehow couldn't get further gigs.
Those Who Live was the first post TWD series that I honestly really enjoyed the first episode of quite a bit. And it's not because it was Rick and Michonne; but because I thought episode was decently written, and I liked the journey that Rick went through in the episode. I was so old that I was actually quite surprised when that helicopter got shot down, but I have to admit as soon as it was shot down and I saw other people coming in to cut down the surviving crew members, you knew that Michonne was going to be one of them and come up and almost skewer Rick before she realized who he was.

And even though yeah, you can call it small Universe syndrome; but I didn't mind it because that just means it's going to move the story along. YMMV.:shrug:

Which part was small universe? We had a couple of such incidents
First post TWD Series where I'm actually interested in seeing, and looking forward to episode 2.

That's what I don't get. I thought the firebombings of Los Angeles/West Coast and Atlanta/East Coast occurred simultaneously. Although it was shown to be night in L.A. and daytime in Atlanta. So, early morning in Atlanta, middle of the night in L.A.? There's no way those fighter jets could have made it across the United States without midair refueling and stopping somewhere to rearm. It's a logistical nightmare, especially with the way things were shown to be breaking down in the final days before the bombings. I'm sure there would have been mass desertion on the part of the armed forces at that point. Okafor should only have been responsible for the bombing of Atlanta and rebelling against the bombing of Philadelphia.
I don't t think it was simultaneous.... the time frames for both were pretty vague.
FOr Rick, it has been speculated that Rick was in a coma 3 to 5 day to as long as 4 to 5 weeks. He was in long enough for his IV to run out and Shane to refill it. That was the day everything went crazy in Atlanta

With Fear , we know that at least for a couple of days things were spreading before chaos really happened. I recall being very disappointed that at least a couple of weeks had passed between the initial chaos and the Clark family being "safe" in a quarantined suburb.

I assume every section of the US had different rates of chaos.... so maybe more rural/sprawling suburban might be "safer" than many cities

But yeah -- i agree.. there were surely a lot more pilots and planes that could have handled those jobs. So unless he was so good that he could be precise enough to kill (mostly) the dead and not the living ... that totally seems like small world syndrome.
Symbolism. A trapped animal will chew off its own leg to get away.
Yeah.... seems a little odd for RIck... but also brings back the comic as well, where RIck lost his hand really early in the comic series.

===
I hope we get a more detailed explanation about A and B .... well, the B was pretty clear. But for A.... why not kill them right when their classification is discovered? or would they interrogate them, and perhaps try to take over the community that the A led? (And then kill them via experimentation)
 
That's what I don't get. I thought the firebombings of Los Angeles/West Coast and Atlanta/East Coast occurred simultaneously. Although it was shown to be night in L.A. and daytime in Atlanta. So, early morning in Atlanta, middle of the night in L.A.? There's no way those fighter jets could have made it across the United States without midair refueling and stopping somewhere to rearm.

Hmm--what WD universe episode confirmed the Air Force strikes occured at the same time in L.A. and Atlanta?
 
But was Okafor a villain here? Seems more like the hero-mentor / catalyst for Rick to do his thing.

Rick viewed him--and anyone refusing to set him free--as a villain, until he learned what price Okafor paid to help build the CR.

You didn't really talk about Beale -- while his appearance is brief, it seems very clear he is a charismatic and smart man. Definitely can be one of the top TWD villains.I think Terry also did a masterclass as well.

I held off on that, since its clear the writers were just teasing his suspicious behavior about Rick, but were not going to have him play his hand until Okafor was no longer in the picture.

I very much hope they will show that Beale was smart enough to know what Okafur was doing, and that perhaps that last mission was intended to get him and RIck killed.... Beale just didn't anticipate RIck could survive the crash but also see his wife just before she would have killed him.

Interesting idea, however, unless Beale set up the trip to either fly into hostile territory, and had an assassin on the ground waiting for the flyover, there would be no way for Beale to guarantee the death of all involved. From the looks of things, Michonne's new allies were responsible for taking the helicopter down; if Michonne is all in with those who are fighting the CRM, Rick should take that as his opportunity to finally escape from the CRM (5th time's the charm?), and he would have no reason not to, since he barely decided to forget his past and join the CRM's cause. The motivation for joining (the idea he would never see his family again) no longer has weight for him.

(Though that scene would have made more sense if RIck spoke... she had no reason to remove his helmet otherwise)

Good point, but they had to see each other, and after so many years (in-universe and out), there was no way the 1st episode would end without a face to face reunion.

Hopefully they also show's Beale's conflict --- he is obviously quite grateful for OKafur saving his army, and willing to kill his wife to do so. So he wouldn't have done this lightly

Grateful, but he has to be a bit paranoid that the price others paid for him might come back to do him in. Note his questioning Rick about Okafor--that did not sound like a leader who deeply trusts even those he's authorized to serve in leadership positions.
 
[QUOTE="Morpheus 02, post: 14746852, member: 1888.
Which part was small universe? We had a couple of such incidents
[/QUOTE]
Bad post composition on my part I guess.

The 'small universe' incident was what I refered to above the sentence where I mentioned 'small universe'. IE The fact that Michonne was the one who found Rick in the crash and was about to chop his head off before she realized it was him.
 
The only thing that I don't like is we have to wait until episode 3 to see Rick explain why he is a soldier for Michonne's enemies.

It will be interesting to see Michonne's side though.
 
Rick viewed him--and anyone refusing to set him free--as a villain, until he learned what price Okafor paid to help build the CR.
Yeah,that is a true observation about Rick's POV. but Okafur to me seems similar to Mercer in the last TWD arc in that he started off righteous, and really does want to do the right thing, but is seeing that the system he is currently serving is corrupt and needs to be changed. But Okafur was much farther down that path than Mercer was, and is the one "instigating" rather than following an insitgator.
I held off on that, since its clear the writers were just teasing his suspicious behavior about Rick, but were not going to have him play his hand until Okafor was no longer in the picture.
i was just curious your take on Beale as a villain so far.
Interesting idea, however, unless Beale set up the trip to either fly into hostile territory, and had an assassin on the ground waiting for the flyover, there would be no way for Beale to guarantee the death of all involved. From the looks of things, Michonne's new allies were responsible for taking the helicopter down; if Michonne is all in with those who are fighting the CRM, Rick should take that as his opportunity to finally escape from the CRM (5th time's the charm?), and he would have no reason not to, since he barely decided to forget his past and join the CRM's cause. The motivation for joining (the idea he would never see his family again) no longer has weight for him.

He might not be able to guarantee death, but like King David and Uriah in the bible, Beale might position Okafor in a place where his death just seems like a natural battlefield casualty, instead of a manipulated murder. i guess we will see later

And you're right... at this point, the CRM should believe Rick to be dead... though i am sure Beale will question if they had all the bodies, and unless they can positively identify Okafor, i wonder if he too would be considered alive? In other words, Beale will most certainly suspect Rick to have joined the Enemy now, and act accordingly.

But yeah, this is Rick's opportunity to join the "rebellion".

but now that i think about it.... with Okafur having all this talk of rising up the ranks, and and his friend in the water department.... those can't be random. Rick is probably going to go back to the CRM for a little bit, and put those things into play. But again, what sacrifice will force that? Which of the Rebels might be willing to die to create the cover story that Rick is still is on the CRM side and escaped by sheer ability and not collaboration.
Good point, but they had to see each other, and after so many years (in-universe and out), there was no way the 1st episode would end without a face to face reunion.
Oh without a doubt... but Michonne was just stabbing people straight up as soon as she got to them. They never had a chance to plea for their lives.. She didn't have a reason to take off Rick's helmet. If he simply said "WHo are you people?" or really anything with his voice, that would be have a logical prompt for Michonne to pause and take off his helmet, because the voice sounded familiar, and she would want to verify that she wasn't going crazy...and then the reunion would have made total sense. It's a minor nitpick , but we are on TrekBBS
Grateful, but he has to be a bit paranoid that the price others paid for him might come back to do him in. Note his questioning Rick about Okafor--that did not sound like a leader who deeply trusts even those he's authorized to serve in leadership positions.
That's true... but i think that's something that came over time... and especially Okafur's trust in Rick.

Hopefully we get some more flashbacks to help us see why Beale would be OK with Rick gaining the power he is.

The only thing that I don't like is we have to wait until episode 3 to see Rick explain why he is a soldier for Michonne's enemies.

It will be interesting to see Michonne's side though.
I didn't even consider that. That makes sense the next episode will be "Previously, with Michonne's life" (especially as Danai Guira is a co-writer). But that will make the structure/pacing of the series make more sense

should I assume episode 4 or 5 will give us a recap of the CRM, so we can see how they weren't always bad, but maybe see where they went wrong?


Now someone had mentioned that they are expecting a season 2 of Rick & Michonne?

If so, I would expect the enemy will be the COmmonwealth's Department of CHild and Family Services. ;)[/QUOTE]
 
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