This was a totally random thought (most of mine are) while i was driving one day but are there any Vulcan names at all that haven't started with an "S" or a "T"? I was hard-pressed to come up with any. Can't say that I've heard any cannon or literary (strike that, if it's not said on-screen then trek fan's heads will explode three times simultaneously) reference to this if it's true. Can anyone contradict this and if so, name me one Vulcan whose name didn't start with an "S" or "T"
Vulcan names
- Thread starter BigJ
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Here's a list of canon Vulcans. T's and S's dominate, but there've been quite a few others, too.
And it has been implied in a few non-canonical places that houses that follow this pattern strictly can trace their lineage back to Surak.
In JM Dillard's The Lost Years, a Vulcan villain from the time of Surak is propelled to Kirk's era and, meeting a modern Surakian Vulcan, bursts to laughter at hearing his S***K-format name. "After all this time, they still haven't run out of names!"...
This would be a valid concern, I guess, if all Vulcans tried to follow the format. If only diehard fundie Surakians do, then the problem is alleviated. Of course, some names may repeat quite often, but having two Sparks alive at the same time would get confusing because Vulcans like to go by their single names. (They do have other names, supposedly surnames or patronymics or clan identifiers or perhaps something alien, but those are apparently seldom used in official context, given that we have never heard a single one!)
Timo Saloniemi
This would be a valid concern, I guess, if all Vulcans tried to follow the format. If only diehard fundie Surakians do, then the problem is alleviated. Of course, some names may repeat quite often, but having two Sparks alive at the same time would get confusing because Vulcans like to go by their single names. (They do have other names, supposedly surnames or patronymics or clan identifiers or perhaps something alien, but those are apparently seldom used in official context, given that we have never heard a single one!)
Timo Saloniemi
Not quite true. In Star Trek III, Sarek is referred to as "Sarek, child of Skon, child of Solkar". In English, at any rate, it seems they make the distinction by patronymics. My guess would be that a name continues to add patronymics backward until there is no confusion or until one reaches the name of a Vulcan no one will mistake for anyone else. Kinda like the way we refer to locations:
"New York" - 'nuff said. Everyone knows this city.
"Buffalo, New York" - There are other Buffalos, so we add the state, New York. Everyone knows that state. "nuff said.
"Valdosta, Georgia, U.S.A." - Who the heck knows where Valdosta is? So we add the Georgia part. But Valdosta sounds like it could be Russian. So we clarify that we don't mean the Republic of Georgia by adding U.S.A. 'nuff said.
Spock, for example, can add until he has made which Spock he is clear - "Spock, child of Sarek, child of Skon..." but they get to stop at Solkar, because he was one of the three Vulcan signatories to the Federation charter. 'nuff said. (For that matter, at some point I expect Spock's renown was such that he could just say "Spock". Other Spocks would have to clarify.
)Makes great sense. Yet the existence of "another name" is confirmed in TOS "This Side of Paradise", and that of a "Vulcan name" in TOS "Journey to Babel". So an alternate identifier apparently does exist for Spock, apart from "son of Sarek, son of Skon". And the same identifier might apply to Spock, Sarek and Amanda alike, although this is just speculation.
One wonders, then, why the patronymic identification of Sarek would be used when Sarek in all likelihood also has "another name", which may be the same as Amanda's "Vulcan name". Perhaps chains of ancestors are nice for ceremonial use, possibly because that's how it was done in the distant past - while modern Vulcans for the recent few millennia have been using surnames or similar identifiers instead.
(As a side note, let's not forget that "child of Skon, child of Solkar" might mean that Sarek's mother was named Skon and his father was named Solkar.)
Timo Saloniemi
One wonders, then, why the patronymic identification of Sarek would be used when Sarek in all likelihood also has "another name", which may be the same as Amanda's "Vulcan name". Perhaps chains of ancestors are nice for ceremonial use, possibly because that's how it was done in the distant past - while modern Vulcans for the recent few millennia have been using surnames or similar identifiers instead.
(As a side note, let's not forget that "child of Skon, child of Solkar" might mean that Sarek's mother was named Skon and his father was named Solkar.)
Timo Saloniemi
I figured it meant that Sarek's father was named Skon, and HIS father was named Solkar, and in those sorts of ceremonies they don't bother going back that much further. Or maybe Solkar is the name of a city that Skon was from, or some larger clan Spock's family is descended from is called Solkar.
Yes, but those Solkars would have to refer to themselves as Solkar, child of .... , child of ...., because they aren't the Solkar....Of course, this might simply mean that Vulcans of recent generations would choose to name their kids after the famous diplomat, resulting in a confusing multitude of Solkars during Sarek and Spock's lifetime.
Of course, with only six Vulcans ever actually named on TOS (edit: eight counting Skon and Skollar I guess), it's not much of a sample.
I mean, if TOS was actually a Vulcan production, and the humans that showed up were named John, James, Julian, Janice, Jennifer, and Jessica, would they figure humans only used given names that started with a J?
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