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Vision in the 24th Century

S

Shamrock Holmes

Commodore
Commodore
I've been pondering two disparate questions regarding "vision" in the TNG era?:

- Given the issues associated with the VISOR (pain, heavy visual distortions and "noise") surely the "decreased visual range" of 2360s era Ocular Implants (which are still greater than natural human eyes) would be an acceptable trade-off?

- Fanon to the contrary, which the exception of holographic isolation suits used in Star Trek: Insurrection, I can't see stealth/camouflage uniforms being even remotely effective given the advanced sensor technology available to most Alpha & Beta Quadrant powers in the 23rd or 24th Centuries. that said, I think I'd prefer softer tones (olive, tan, grey, brown) for 'field uniforms' rather black or bright primary colours (though the latter are acceptable for 'dress uniforms') anyway?
 
As regards the VISOR, we don't know if replacing it with the implants that Pulaski in "Loud as a Whisper" offered would have solved the pain problem.

We know LaForge turned down Crusher's two "Encounter at Farpoint" remedies to that problem, painkillers and lobotomy, the former because it would have resulted in (slight) loss of capacity, the latter for unknown reasons. But when Pulaski made her offer, the pain issue was not mentioned at all. Possibly Pulaski just wanted to offer a more compact device instead of the clumsy VISOR?

...And perhaps the pain would have remained even if LaForge accepted Pulaski's other offer, that for repairing his human eyesight by regenerating the optic nerve and then replicating some real eyes? I mean, there's no clear reason why this would preserve the pain, but OTOH Pulaski does not market even this option with a "bye bye pain" upside.

I'm not sure about the uniform issue - but I guess the point here is that Starfleet is. If camouflage isn't going to work 100% or even 20%, perhaps it's tactically much preferable to be highly visible so that ground action can be coordinated? It's not for serious mental illness in the leadership that the armies of yore wore brightly colored coats: wearing dull grey or green might have meant defeat through loss of cohesion to units and, even more seriously, through total loss of IFF.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I never could figure why Geordi simply didn't have cloned natural eyeballs implanted, if not from his own tissues, then from that of a compatible donor. The Visor seemed like a needlessly complicated solution to his vision issues.

Moving on to other vision issues on TNG, you'll remember the TNG episode where first contact is made with a planet on the verge of warp capability (Malcorians?). There was the one government official who wore glasses, as well as Lanel, who seduced Riker. I think the presence of Malcorians wearing glasses was to symbolize just how far behind their society was from the Federation. No one capable of warp flight in any species I've seen on any of the shows wears glasses - and I'd presume contact lenses - as a solution to bad vision. Let's face it, hanging lenses in front of one's eyes is a very low-tech solution, hundreds of years old even in our own time. We're on the verge now of more reliable and permanent solutions to bad vision than glasses and contacts. I predict that before the turn of the century and likely much sooner, no one will use glasses or contacts, and that permanent, reliable, less invasive (than current surgical procedures) will be available to all, regardless of income. So, with that thought in mind, even the Malcorians were behind the times, still using glasses at their level of technology.
 
Six of Twelve said:
I never could figure why Geordi simply didn't have cloned natural eyeballs implanted, if not from his own tissues, then from that of a compatible donor. The Visor seemed like a needlessly complicated solution to his vision issues.

Moving on to other vision issues on TNG, you'll remember the TNG episode where first contact is made with a planet on the verge of warp capability (Malcorians?). There was the one government official who wore glasses, as well as Lanel, who seduced Riker. I think the presence of Malcorians wearing glasses was to symbolize just how far behind their society was from the Federation. No one capable of warp flight in any species I've seen on any of the shows wears glasses - and I'd presume contact lenses - as a solution to bad vision. Let's face it, hanging lenses in front of one's eyes is a very low-tech solution, hundreds of years old even in our own time. We're on the verge now of more reliable and permanent solutions to bad vision than glasses and contacts. I predict that before the turn of the century and likely much sooner, no one will use glasses or contacts, and that permanent, reliable, less invasive (than current surgical procedures) will be available to all, regardless of income. So, with that thought in mind, even the Malcorians were behind the times, still using glasses at their level of technology.
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Actually, Kirk wore glasses occasionally during TWOK (and sold them in TVH), apparently he's allergic to Retinax Five, the usual treatment for age-related sight deterioration in the 23rd Century.
 
Shamrock Holmes said:
Actually, Kirk wore glasses occasionally during TWOK (and sold them in TVH), apparently he's allergic to Retinax Five, the usual treatment for age-related sight deterioration in the 23rd Century.
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That's the kind of thing where the writers were short-sighted, if you'll pardon the expression, in anticipating future technology. I re-watched TVH recently and had assumed the antique glasses were merely a collector's keepsake to Kirk, and didn't think he'd actually used them. It also seems that there should have been more than a single type of treatment for Kirk's type of vision issue during his time as well. After all, even now most medical conditions have more than a single type of pill to treat each condition, as not everyone responds well to the same kind of pill.
 
Shamrock Holmes said:
Actually, Kirk wore glasses occasionally during TWOK (and sold them in TVH), apparently he's allergic to Retinax Five, the usual treatment for age-related sight deterioration in the 23rd Century.
Click to expand...

I think the Federation President also had some type of eyeglasses in TUC...
 
I never could figure why Geordi simply didn't have cloned natural eyeballs implanted, if not from his own tissues, then from that of a compatible donor.
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He could - his doctors agree on that. But he hates the idea. "Human vision" is no better than blindness for him - human eyes are such inferior things compared to his VISOR. At most, he wants to try out a short glimpse at a pretty woman or a sunrise through human eyes for the shits and giggles, but it's not something he would want to be stuck with, any more than any of us would want to be caught in a wheelchair for the rest of our lives.

LaForge loves his VISOR. What he hates is the pain associated with its use. But the root problem is that there's something badly wrong with his optical nerves, and that won't change no matter what sort of eyes get plugged into his sockets.

The writers were consistent about that: "supervision" through the VISOR = great, ordinary human vision through cloned eyes = unacceptable, and something in between from ocular implants = why settle for second best?

I re-watched TVH recently and had assumed the antique glasses were merely a collector's keepsake to Kirk, and didn't think he'd actually used them.
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In ST2:TWoK, Kirk definitely makes use of the glasses: he needs them in order to see the readout on Saavik's monitor when they try to stall and outwit Khan, and he needs them to read his Dickens in the end.

Timo Saloniemi
 
What I don't realize is why hadn't we seen more stem-cell based medicine in the 24th century?
These people could easily eradicate ageing with all their technology, and yet, none of this was shown in active use (although I guess it could be in active use... in which case, the TV show should be taken as a relatively basic showcase of Trek and its capability and not necessarily the fullest extent of it).

Likely because stem-cells are a tricky issue in the USA?
 
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Deks said:
What I don't realize is why hadn't we seen more stem-cell based medicine in the 24th century?
These people could easily eradicate ageing with all their technology, and yet, none of this was shown in active use.
Likely because stem-cells are a tricky issue in the USA?
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Not only that, I couldn't see why baldness still existed then. Picard wore it well, but I don't understand the Doctor's "horseshoe head" type of baldness. He complained about it more than once. As a hologram, he could have altered his appearance in any way he chose. And if he could stimulate Seven of Nine's hair follicles and give her a full head of hair after 18 years as a bald Borg, then he certainly could have done the same for any male crewmember with male pattern baldness.
 
In all honesty, we already have the necessary tools at our hands to eradicate ageing (or at least drastically slow it) with stem-cells and upcoming nanorobots.
The Federation was essentially supposed to be far more advanced by the 24th century (quantum leaps ahead of what we saw when you take into account the kind of society it is, and at a minimum exponential development in technology - even though it would be much faster with ever increasing accelerating development).
I mean, look at us in real life... WE will effectively advance beyond 24th century Federation in many aspects in just a few short decades (especially if we unleash deep learning algorithms into R&D,.. which we technically do already in a very limited fashion with IBM's Watson).
 
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It could be a quantum realities thing. (Or something with "quantum" in it anyway.)

If mankind goes full throttle with genetic remedies, we end up all supermen, and there's no Star Trek. If mankind unleashes AIs, we get sucked into singularity, and there's no Star Trek. The only way for mankind to survive till its first contact with alien life that has learned the virtues of moderation is if we follow the path of the dumbest and the most timid, and that's the quantum reality that gets selected for.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Shamrock Holmes said:
I've been pondering two disparate questions regarding "vision" in the TNG era?:

- I can't see stealth/camouflage uniforms being even remotely effective given the advanced sensor technology available to most Alpha & Beta Quadrant powers in the 23rd or 24th Centuries. that said, I think I'd prefer softer tones (olive, tan, grey, brown) for 'field uniforms' rather black or bright primary colours (though the latter are acceptable for 'dress uniforms') anyway?
Click to expand...

Good point, although is the camouflage only for the advanced powers? What about camouflage to recently contacted or underdeveloped species?
Even further, they're in space. High visibility would be suitable while on board the ship, so why not make everything as aesthetically pleasing as possible, then have separate uniforms suited to each deployment?
Actually, why don't they wear camouflaged uniforms tailored to their environment?
 
And with laws of physics so...free..in trekdom...there may be other things besides just a ban on genetics that prevents him from having cloned eyes--which seem to come along in pre-Trek times.

Some folks may not have a hated to tech, and simply prefer a VISOR--where someone with healthy eyeballs would just as soon use a tricorder. If you are borm blind--just go to the opposite end and learn a new device from scratch--rather than maybe giving up healthy eyes.

O/T
You could even get a communicator implanted--needing no badge/flip phone at that.

I do like the posture adopted by taking calls with gesture.

Kirk always looked around in TOS and didn't have his eyes buried into a device--like a distracting smart phone of today. I don't like looking at that posture.

The wrist radio was better. Someone looking at a watch, seems to be doing something more important than someone with a smart phone--who looks as if checking themselves out with a mirror.

Lastly, the TMP communicator on the inner part of the wrist--that might be visually the best. Every time you take a call--it looks like you are curling--making a muscle.

I would have like for Geordi do do a type of signature move with a VISOR at certain times.

I've heard it were two berets that made the thing.
I thought it was a car's air filter.
 
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I have no idea what a car's air filter looks like, but the VISOR looks so much like a banana clip that I always figured that's what they used to make the prop.
 
Avro Arrow said:
I think the Federation President also had some type of eyeglasses in TUC...
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In the novel Wounded Sky (iirc) one of the crew wore glasses, also one of the engineering crewmembers in TAS.
Deks said:
What I don't realize is why hadn't we seen more stem-cell based medicine in the 24th century?
Click to expand...
It's possible that we do, it's just not "labeled" as such. Most of the time we have no idea what is being injected into people on the show.
Likely because stem-cells are a tricky issue in the USA?
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The only sticky tricky issue in the past was where the stem cells would be coming from, there was a objection to the cells coming from aborted children. However cells coming from other sources are fine, and stem cell therapy does show great promise.
 
fedCentauri said:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015..._s_Lt_Geordi_La_Forge_-a-30_1446336352440.jpg

http://www.scooterpartshouse.com/images/parts/A01-071/500.jpg

It can't be unseen, can it?
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:shrug: I still think it looks a lot more like one of these painted with metallic paint:

banana_clip_zpsvtaislwt.jpg


If the prop was made from an air filter, how would Levar Burton see through it?
 
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