Victory is Life!

[ReadyAndWilling]

I was pondering this earlier at work and wow, this quote is pure brilliance. When the show was first broadcast I always thought it was some mindless belief of some mindless group. It isn't.

On further analysis it is clear how well thought out this philosophy really is. The Federation is too obsessed with morality and ethics, but the Jem'Hadar know that the only true morality is the outcome of an event. There is no abstract interpretation of who is in the right, or the wrong. Either you are the winner, or you are the loser.

It is the only rule in the universe. You do everything possible to achieve victory. History has told us over and over again that once you are the victor, you can determine the 'morality' of the conflict. Nothing else matters.

Victory is life!

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

What are your favorite Jem'Hadar quotes?

 

[DevilEyes]

I was pondering this earlier at work and wow, this quote is pure brilliance. When the show was first broadcast I always thought it was some mindless belief of some mindless group. It isn't.

On further analysis it is clear how well thought out this philosophy really is. The Federation is too obsessed with morality and ethics, but the Jem'Hadar know that the only true morality is the outcome of an event. There is no abstract interpretation of who is in the right, or the wrong. Either you are the winner, or you are the loser.

It is the only rule in the universe. You do everything possible to achieve victory. History has told us over and over again that once you are the victor, you can determine the 'morality' of the conflict. Nothing else matters.

Victory is life!

The Jem'Hadar's outlook on the world might look sound if you put them against Federation morality. They sound a little less impressive, however, once you put them against common sense of a person who actually knows what life is, unlike the Jem'Hadar. Which is why some of my favorite DS9 quotes ever are Dax and O'Brien's comments from "To the Death":

Jadzia Dax: Am I really that interesting? You've been standing there staring at me for the last two hours.
Virak'kara: You are part of my combat team. I must learn to understand your behaviour - anticipate your actions.
Jadzia Dax: There must be something you'd rather do. Maybe get some sleep?
Virak'kara: We don't sleep.
Jadzia Dax: How about getting something to eat?
Virak'kara: The white is the only thing we need.
Jadzia Dax: Don't sleep... don't eat... What do you do for relaxation?
Virak'kara: Relaxation would only make us weak.
Jadzia Dax: You people are no fun at all - I'm glad I'm not a Jem'Hadar woman.
Virak'kara: There are no Jem'Hadar women.
Jadzia Dax: So what do you do? Lay eggs?
Virak'kara: Jem'Hadar are bred in birthing chambers. We are able to fight within three days of our emergence.
Jadzia Dax: Lucky you. So let me get this straight: no sleep - no food - no women. No wonder you're so angry.

Omet'iklan: I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember: victory is life.
Jem'Hadar: Victory is life!
[the Jem'Hadar march out]
Weyoun: Such a delightful people.
[O'Brien turns to face the assembled Federation officers]
O'Brien: I am Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. I am very much alive, and I intend to stay that way.
Sisko: Amen!

 

[Timo]

I liked "Aaaargh!" from "To the Death". And "Ugnh!" from "Rocks and Shoals". These guys really know how to go down, now don't they?

History has told us over and over again that once you are the victor, you can determine the 'morality' of the conflict.

Then again, the Jem'Hadar are in no position to dictate. They aren't the victors, they are the tools of the victors...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

Omet'iklan: I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember: victory is life.
Jem'Hadar: Victory is life!
[the Jem'Hadar march out]
Weyoun: Such a delightful people.
[O'Brien turns to face the assembled Federation officers]
O'Brien: I am Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. I am very much alive, and I intend to stay that way.
Sisko: Amen!

What episode is that from?

Sounds awesome

 

[Jono]

^ To The Death

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, that was a great episode. First time the Federation and Dominion worked together on something (it was the ONLY time, wasn't it?)

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

^ To The Death

Thanks. I just took a break from watching it.

Great ep so far!

 

[Too Much Fun]

Ahhh, it's like a tribute to me and my impeccable taste . It's my birthday and everyone is praising one of my two favourite episodes (the other one is "Trials and Tribble-ations"). I seem to be the only one here who puts "To The Death" on favourite episodes lists and it's so good to see this underrated episode and its exploration of the Jem'hadar culture getting some praise. Those Dax and O'Brien scenes are a big reason that it's such a favourite of mine. Those conversations and the one with Weyoun and Odo are so brilliant and captivating.

 

[PSGarak]

Ahhh, it's like a tribute to me and my impeccable taste . It's my birthday and everyone is praising one of my two favourite episodes (the other one is "Trials and Tribble-ations"). I seem to be the only one here who puts "To The Death" on favourite episodes lists and it's so good to see this underrated episode and its exploration of the Jem'hadar culture getting some praise. Those Dax and O'Brien scenes are a big reason that it's such a favourite of mine. Those conversations and the one with Weyoun and Odo are so brilliant and captivating.

Happy birthday! Enjoy the victory of making it another year, and tip back a refreshing beverage of your choice to celebrate. (Unless you're one of those scaly freaks that only consumes "white".)

 

[DevilEyes]

Ahhh, it's like a tribute to me and my impeccable taste . It's my birthday and everyone is praising one of my two favourite episodes (the other one is "Trials and Tribble-ations"). I seem to be the only one here who puts "To The Death" on favourite episodes lists and it's so good to see this underrated episode and its exploration of the Jem'hadar culture getting some praise. Those Dax and O'Brien scenes are a big reason that it's such a favourite of mine. Those conversations and the one with Weyoun and Odo are so brilliant and captivating.

Happy Birthday!

"To the Death" is one of my favourites, too - I think I put it in my top 10 list in the 'your top 10 episodes' as well... I should dig up that thread...

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

The Jem'Hadar's outlook on the world might look sound if you put them against Federation morality. They sound a little less impressive, however, once you put them against common sense of a person who actually knows what life is, unlike the Jem'Hadar. Which is why some of my favorite DS9 quotes ever are Dax and O'Brien's comments from "To the Death":

Omet'iklan: I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember: victory is life.
Jem'Hadar: Victory is life!
[the Jem'Hadar march out]
Weyoun: Such a delightful people.
[O'Brien turns to face the assembled Federation officers]
O'Brien: I am Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. I am very much alive, and I intend to stay that way.
Sisko: Amen!

that quote is great, but i just saw the ep and was disappointed with how it was delivered.

 

[Captrek]

I was pondering this earlier at work and wow, this quote is pure brilliance. When the show was first broadcast I always thought it was some mindless belief of some mindless group. It isn't.

On further analysis it is clear how well thought out this philosophy really is. The Federation is too obsessed with morality and ethics, but the Jem'Hadar know that the only true morality is the outcome of an event. There is no abstract interpretation of who is in the right, or the wrong. Either you are the winner, or you are the loser.

It is the only rule in the universe. You do everything possible to achieve victory. History has told us over and over again that once you are the victor, you can determine the 'morality' of the conflict. Nothing else matters.

Victory is life!

From Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl:

Will: You didn't beat me. you ignored the rules of engagement. In a fair fight, I'd kill you.

Jack: Then that's not much incentive for me to fight fair, then, is it? [whack!] Now, as long as you're just hanging there, pay attention. The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do.

 

[Triskelion]

All of this presupposes a separation from the universe. A competetive point of view that may be antithetical to true wisdom and insight. It's all a lie. What we do to others, we do to ourselves.

"Nothing is true. All is permitted."
The above is self-contradictory.

I prefer:
"What does it profit a man, to gain the world and lose his soul?"

 

[Marie1]

I liked "Aaaargh!" from "To the Death". And "Ugnh!" from "Rocks and Shoals". These guys really know how to go down, now don't they?

[Optimus Prime] Get out of the car. [/Optimus Prime]

And yes, it is complex... Obedience brings Victory. And Victory is Life.

I wonder how often obedience didn't bring victory, and if that always meant death... well, it couldn't have usually but the Vorta are really twisted.

 

[Jono]

I wonder how often obedience didn't bring victory, and if that always meant death... well, it couldn't have usually but the Vorta are really twisted.

See: Dominion War

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

I wonder how often obedience didn't bring victory, and if that always meant death... well, it couldn't have usually but the Vorta are really twisted.

See: Dominion War

How could the Jem'Hadar have done much more?

It was the Cardassians that proved to be the turning point.

 

[Jono]

I wonder how often obedience didn't bring victory, and if that always meant death... well, it couldn't have usually but the Vorta are really twisted.

See: Dominion War

How could the Jem'Hadar have done much more?

It was the Cardassians that proved to be the turning point.

They couldn't. They obeyed their leaders and in the end their obedience wasn't rewarded with victory was what I was getting at.

Personally, I view the Romulans as been the turning point in the war, which I guess does includes one Cardassian.

 

[Marie1]

See: Dominion War

How could the Jem'Hadar have done much more?

It was the Cardassians that proved to be the turning point.

They couldn't. They obeyed their leaders and in the end their obedience wasn't rewarded with victory was what I was getting at.

Personally, I view the Romulans as been the turning point in the war, which I guess does includes one Cardassian.

LOL, that's kinda true- tho I put the failure on the Vorta's arrogance, the Cardassian rebellion, and the Romlulans- and the credit kinda goes to Sisko...

But that isn't entirely what I meant- the Founders aren't going to hold the Jem'Hadar at fault for not conquering the AQ- they did what they were told, with their allies.

I'm thinking on a smaller scale- if they were given impossible odds, what would be the result of losing? But a Vorta would do it to be a jerk, a Founder would know the Vorta was being idiotic, a Jem'Hadar is always 2 steps ahead of the Vorta so...

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

They couldn't. They obeyed their leaders and in the end their obedience wasn't rewarded with victory was what I was getting at.

Personally, I view the Romulans as been the turning point in the war, which I guess does includes one Cardassian.LOL, that's kinda true- tho I put the failure on the Vorta's arrogance, the Cardassian rebellion, and the Romlulans- and the credit kinda goes to Sisko...

But that isn't entirely what I meant- the Founders aren't going to hold the Jem'Hadar at fault for not conquering the AQ- they did what they were told, with their allies.

I'm thinking on a smaller scale- if they were given impossible odds, what would be the result of losing? But a Vorta would do it to be a jerk, a Founder would know the Vorta was being idiotic, a Jem'Hadar is always 2 steps ahead of the Vorta so...

They are right though. Imagine if the Klingons were the ones who made the decision. The Jem'Hadar would have been wiped out.

Victory is life.