Twelve and Clara’s dynamic

[Annie McCoy]

Didn’t know if this fit into an existing thread, I tried to search but nothing came up.

The more I rewatch Clara’s run as a companion the less I see how people see 12 and Clara as a father/daughter, familial, or platonic relationship. Especially when they then like 11 and Clara romantically/think they had a thing (when 12 is basically the same age as 11, just visually different)?

Personally I love the unhealthy codependency arc that was the series 9 finale (I’m basic and Hell Bent and Heaven Sent are some of my favourite episodes) and I see them a lot more romantic than platonic (though I do thing it is a complex dynamic). I don’t see them as having a platonic relationship at all but also I never think they got together, just had extremely complex and not necessarily healthy feelings for each other.

Who knows maybe i’m blinded for my love for the characters/actors and codependent relationships (example, Hannibal and Will in NBC Hannibal similar complexity but for very different reasons) but then again the actors have confirmed it in interviews and things. I also love Thoschei (especially in the 12 and Missy regeneration) and River and 12 (I love 11 and River but the Husbands of River Song is a favourite episode of mine with the Darillium arc).

I’m interested in how other people view their relationship (I don’t know whether it’s just the Doctor Who fandom on the social media i am on but a lot of views on them are polarising on the romantic/platonic front) it’s one of my favourite dynamics to hear other people’s interpretations of.

 

[Timewalker]

I hate Clara. If I had my own time machine, I'd go back and prevent Jenna Coleman from ever being part of the show.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I hate Clara. If I had my own time machine, I'd go back and prevent Jenna Coleman from ever being part of the show.

What do you have against Jenna? Are you conflating character and actress?

 

[Timewalker]

What do you have against Jenna? Are you conflating character and actress?

Obviously if Jenna Coleman had never been part of nuWho, Clara wouldn't have been a companion. Or if she had been, she'd have been played by someone else and maybe had a different personality and not been shoved at us as incessantly as she was. Her GOTCHA! "death" was the last straw for me. Aside from the Christmas special that year, I've never watched another nuWho episode.

I'm not bothering with the 60th. I have no idea when it's on or if it was on and I missed it (we no longer have a science fiction channel worth being called science fiction, as the offerings are Star Trek, Stargate, and action movies that have nothing to do with science fiction).

As far as I'm concerned, the last watchable Doctor was Tennant (though I did enjoy parts of the 50th anniversary - Paul McGann's webisode and Tom Baker's cameo).

I enjoyed Jenna Coleman as Queen Victoria. I just hate CLARA. No matter what her last name is.

 

[diankra]

It's a more successful try at the 6/Peri dynamic. Initially she hates how he's changed, and he does little to ease that, but eventually they get on.

 

[Annie McCoy]

I hate Clara. If I had my own time machine, I'd go back and prevent Jenna Coleman from ever being part of the show.

Wasn’t what this post was about at all, but fair enough i didn’t like clara on my first watch she was my least favourite companion

 

[Annie McCoy]

As far as I'm concerned, the last watchable Doctor was Tennant (though I did enjoy parts of the 50th anniversary - Paul McGann's webisode and Tom Baker's cameo).

Maybe you more have a problem with Moffats writing than anything?

 

[Annie McCoy]

It's a more successful try at the 6/Peri dynamic. Initially she hates how he's changed, and he does little to ease that, but eventually they get on.

I haven’t been able to watch much of Classic who (up until it was all out on BBC recently I had no access to it, my parents didn’t pay for BritBox, and since it has been added i’ve been so busy) i’ve watched a couple episodes but not enough to know this. This is making me want to watch it more tbh

 

[Timewalker]

Okay, about the relationship. Clara took the Doctor for granted. She didn't treat her time with him, or in the TARDIS as the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that the other companions did. She came to regard it as routine, something she sandwiched in between dates and work, and she'd throw tantrums if the Doctor didn't do what she wanted, when she wanted. And then at the end, she couldn't even die when she was supposed to, because the showrunner considered her to be Just That Special.

Maybe you more have a problem with Moffats writing than anything?

Maybe I've been to enough Whovian rodeos to know what I like and don't like, thanks. I actually don't pay much attention to who wrote what. I do pay attention to whether or not I like the story, and if I like the acting and how the characters are written.

Admittedly I'm a Classic Who fan and have not been easily pleased with nuWho. I don't dislike Capaldi; he's a credible Doctor. But holy crap, some of those scripts were awful.

 

[Annie McCoy]

Okay, about the relationship. Clara took the Doctor for granted. She didn't treat her time with him, or in the TARDIS as the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that the other companions did. She came to regard it as routine, something she sandwiched in between dates and work, and she'd throw tantrums if the Doctor didn't do what she wanted, when she wanted. And then at the end, she couldn't even die when she was supposed to, because the showrunner considered her to be Just That Special.

I’m pretty sure her taking the Doctor for granted was part of their arc, that they were bad for each other and grew to be too much like the other. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote about their relationship, I just happen to like it.

Maybe I've been to enough Whovian rodeos to know what I like and don't like, thanks. I actually don't pay much attention to who wrote what. I do pay attention to whether or not I like the story, and if I like the acting and how the characters are written.

Admittedly I'm a Classic Who fan and have not been easily pleased with nuWho. I don't dislike Capaldi; he's a credible Doctor. But holy crap, some of those scripts were awful.

The only reason I said maybe you don’t like Moffats writing more than anything is because anything from Tennant up to Whittaker is Moffat and you said it’s the scripts and stories you don’t like which would be Moffat, I wasn’t trying to be rude. If you liked 9 and 10 then you might like the 60th because that writer is returning, that’s all I meant.

 

[Timewalker]

I’m pretty sure her taking the Doctor for granted was part of their arc, that they were bad for each other and grew to be too much like the other. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote about their relationship, I just happen to like it.



The only reason I said maybe you don’t like Moffats writing more than anything is because anything from Tennant up to Whittaker is Moffat and you said it’s the scripts and stories you don’t like which would be Moffat, I wasn’t trying to be rude. If you liked 9 and 10 then you might like the 60th because that writer is returning, that’s all I meant.

Mkay. I have no idea when the 60th is, was, or will be on, and just canceled the only channel I could get it on anyway (money's tight and something had to give, so the a la carte channels had to go).

Maybe I should clarify a bit. I didn't like the Smith era because I don't like Matt Smith. As in I don't enjoy him in anything, whether it's Doctor Who or anything else. And when a story arc gets so convoluted that I need a flow chart to understand it, that's when I decide enough is enough, not into it. I decided to give Capaldi a chance, and that dreadful Clara just kept going like a Whovian Energizer Bunny with its entitled nose in the air.

 

[ED-209]

Mkay. I have no idea when the 60th is, was, or will be on.

The episode that was just on was the first of three that are the celebration.

 

[diankra]

I haven’t been able to watch much of Classic who (up until it was all out on BBC recently I had no access to it, my parents didn’t pay for BritBox, and since it has been added i’ve been so busy) i’ve watched a couple episodes but not enough to know this. This is making me want to watch it more tbh

The 6/Peri Tales of the Tardis is an early abrasive one, framed by the warmer relationship they reach.

 

[Timewalker]

The episode that was just on was the first of three that are the celebration.

I'll miss it, then. When I looked on the relevant channel, all I found was a Jurassic Park marathon. So I figured either they're not showing it or I've already missed it. Either way, I was paying for a channel I wasn't watching much anymore, so it's gone.

 

[diankra]

I'll miss it, then. When I looked on the relevant channel, all I found was a Jurassic Park marathon. So I figured either they're not showing it or I've already missed it. Either way, I was paying for a channel I wasn't watching much anymore, so it's gone.

First one on Disney+, outside the UK.

 

[diankra]

The 6/Peri Tales of the Tardis is an early abrasive one, framed by the warmer relationship they reach.

Once caught up, see if you can find Blakes 7. Watch in order, means suffering bad episodes, but also means the shock deaths happen out of nowhere.

 

[Sketcher]

Their dynamic across regenerations is interesting. Clara very much feels like the 11th Doctor's rebound, in terms of a companion and love interest, after losing both the Ponds and River. He even laments that he's not Clara's boyfriend after regenerating, something that was his own assumption, if not Clara's as well. Then once any physical attraction is stripped away between them, is when the Doctor truly seems to develop a strong emotional bond with Clara, and vice versa, even if it was doomed to fail.

 

[Timewalker]

First one on Disney+, outside the UK.

Disney+ isn't available here. And even if it was, it would be a lot more than the channel I just canceled.

Then once any physical attraction is stripped away between them,

My own view of this is that I find Capaldi a lot more attractive than Smith.

As always, YKMV.

 

[Annie McCoy]

My own view of this is that I find Capaldi a lot more attractive than Smith.

So. So. So. Real.

 

[Sketcher]

Capaldi can rock it for sure. But I don't think that was Clara's opinion. Or it was at least just too jarring of a change for her in the beginning. Wonder if she just assumed, especially after seeing 11 age so dramatically, that each regeneration would snap back to a younger face.