Transphasic Torpedoes

[StarFleetVeteran]

Sorry if this topic has been covered, but I didn't see it when I went through old posts. According to Memory Beta, transphasic torpedoes are "a very powerful" weapon specifically designed for use against the Borg due to the phasing and all that jazz. My question: are they just so powerful against the Borg, or would they be as effective against any ship Borg or not?

 

[SicOne]

See the Trek Literature forum, thread entitled "Transphasic torpedo usage"; last entry dated January 25.

Someone more BBS-savvy than I can probably post a link directly to it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Praetor]

Capt Cannabis, you can find that here in case you haven't already. There is an older tech thread about it here. You might also be interested in this thread about Starfleet tech after the return of Voyager and this one about the 'batmobile armor' and why it was excluded from the books.

Yeah, I went search crazy.

 

[SicOne]

Thanks for the links, Praetor.

 

[Praetor]

No problemo.

 

[JuanBolio]

I would guess they're just as powerful against any ship - the way I figure they work is that their explosive warheads are not much more powerful than an ordinary photon or quantum torpedo, but they phase right through a ship's shields and hull and detonate inside - a multi-megaton blast from within will take out damn near anything.

 

[Praetor]

^Which is what I tend to think, too.

 

[StarryEyed]

I would guess they're just as powerful against any ship - the way I figure they work is that their explosive warheads are not much more powerful than an ordinary photon or quantum torpedo, but they phase right through a ship's shields and hull and detonate inside - a multi-megaton blast from within will take out damn near anything.

I'll say. Look at the damage a mere 15 kilotons did to Hiroshima. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy

Even Little Boy (the first atomic bomb) would have melted most of a Borg cube if you set it off from the inside. That device converted just 600 milligrams of mass to energy. That's only 1.3 thousandths of a pound!

A matter/anti-matter blast from the inside is going to reduce the toughest and largest ship to its component molecules.

What a weapon!

 

[Plecostomus]

I would guess they're just as powerful against any ship - the way I figure they work is that their explosive warheads are not much more powerful than an ordinary photon or quantum torpedo, but they phase right through a ship's shields and hull and detonate inside - a multi-megaton blast from within will take out damn near anything.

I'll say. Look at the damage a mere 15 kilotons did to Hiroshima. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy

Even Little Boy (the first atomic bomb) would have melted most of a Borg cube if you set it off from the inside. That device converted just 600 milligrams of mass to energy. That's only 1.3 thousandths of a pound!

A matter/anti-matter blast from the inside is going to reduce the toughest and largest ship to its component molecules.

What a weapon!

My take on Transphasics... If you phased the entire torp into the Borg Cube there is a chance they might disarm it by some method and assimilate it.

Transphasics... don't materialize the torpedo inside the target they direct the detonation force through subspace into the target.

Hey if we can make a self-transporting transporter button we can do anything with Treknology.

 

[SicOne]

Wait a minute, IIRC don't transphasic torpedos just phase their way through a target's shields and strike the unprotected hull? I thought we covered this in a previous thread, but I did not take a closer look yet.

 

[JuanBolio]

Wait a minute, IIRC don't transphasic torpedos just phase their way through a target's shields and strike the unprotected hull? I thought we covered this in a previous thread, but I did not take a closer look yet.

That'd leave a hell of a scorch mark, but probably would not blow an entire Borg cube to tiny fragments.

 

[StarryEyed]

Transphasics... don't materialize the torpedo inside the target they direct the detonation force through subspace into the target.

It's unlikely that such a device would be called a "transphasic torpedo."

 

[StarFleetVeteran]

Wow, forgot about this post for a few days and look at all the answers! Thanks everyone, and thank you Praetor for all the links!

 

[Praetor]

You're welcome, Capt Cannabis.

 

[Deks]

I would guess they're just as powerful against any ship - the way I figure they work is that their explosive warheads are not much more powerful than an ordinary photon or quantum torpedo, but they phase right through a ship's shields and hull and detonate inside - a multi-megaton blast from within will take out damn near anything.

I don't agree on the explosive yield bit because we have evidence that suggest 1 transphasic torpedoe would have to be several times as powerful compared to a standard photon torpedo.
1 Photon torpedo that detonated inside a Borg 'scout' ship (actually, designated as a 'probe') was enough to destroy it ... primarily because it detonated near the power matrix and the general goal of Voyager's crew was to disable the vessel, not destroy it.

On a second occasion, when they transported a torpedo and detonated it from inside a Borg sphere, it created a huge explosion and heavily damaged the vessel, but did NOT destroy it.

Borg cubes are far larger compared to spheres, and more durable.
You'd likely need to beam at least 4 to 6 photon torpedoes inside a cube to various locations in order to completely destroy it since Borg ships can operate even with over 70% of the vessel being disabled.

Since 1 transphasic torpedo was enough to eliminate a cube, there is a possibility it's explosive yield is equivalent to about 4, 6, or 10 photon torpedoes, and the effective explosive radius larger by a large amount.

Transporting a photon torpedo inside a 'regular race ship' would likely cause extreme damage and destroy it because they aren't Borg ships, unless the explosion is contained somehow with internal forcefields (although how much of the blast they'd be able to absorb is unknown) ... but again we can also speculate that the interior is made up of the same materials like the ship's external hull which could also prevent immediate destruction.

 

[Praetor]

I would guess they're just as powerful against any ship - the way I figure they work is that their explosive warheads are not much more powerful than an ordinary photon or quantum torpedo, but they phase right through a ship's shields and hull and detonate inside - a multi-megaton blast from within will take out damn near anything.

I don't agree on the explosive yield bit because we have evidence that suggest 1 transphasic torpedoe would have to be several times as powerful compared to a standard photon torpedo.
1 Photon torpedo that detonated inside a Borg 'scout' ship (actually, designated as a 'probe') was enough to destroy it ... primarily because it detonated near the power matrix and the general goal of Voyager's crew was to disable the vessel, not destroy it.

On a second occasion, when they transported a torpedo and detonated it from inside a Borg sphere, it created a huge explosion and heavily damaged the vessel, but did NOT destroy it.

Borg cubes are far larger compared to spheres, and more durable.
You'd likely need to beam at least 4 to 6 photon torpedoes inside a cube to various locations in order to completely destroy it since Borg ships can operate even with over 70% of the vessel being disabled.

Since 1 transphasic torpedo was enough to eliminate a cube, there is a possibility it's explosive yield is equivalent to about 4, 6, or 10 photon torpedoes, and the effective explosive radius larger by a large amount.

Transporting a photon torpedo inside a 'regular race ship' would likely cause extreme damage and destroy it because they aren't Borg ships, unless the explosion is contained somehow with internal forcefields (although how much of the blast they'd be able to absorb is unknown) ... but again we can also speculate that the interior is made up of the same materials like the ship's external hull which could also prevent immediate destruction.

I have to disagree, and I think you're missing the big picture here.

1. Photon torpedoes are rarely depicted as packing the explosive punch that they are stated to have. Additionally, they have been established to have a variable yield.
2. The accidental destruction of the first Borg Probe via the detonation of its power core in 'Dark Frontier' should illustrate how powerful photon torpedoes actually can be.
3. In the second such instance, the VGR crew were purposefully being cautious not to destroy the ship, and may have significantly reduced the yield of the warhead in question.
4. If a transphasic torpedo can pass directly through a Borg cube's hull, shields, and everything else directly to destroy the power core, then the resulting destruction of the power core would be significant enough to destroy the cube itself, without requiring a high-yield warhead in the torpedo.

 

[Deks]

1. & 2. Never stated the torpedoes yields cannot be changed.
In case of probe attack in Dark Frontier, Chakotay clearly said: 'I thought we were trying to disable it' which implies the torpedo could have been set on lower yield (although we don't know this for certain).
Then 7 clearly negated his statement by saying: 'The torpedo detonated near the power matrix ...'
Clearly indicating the explosion of the power matrix amplified the initial explosion by multiple factors and destroyed the entire ship (which was limited in it's size to begin with).

3. Uhm, ... no they were not cautious in doing damage to the Sphere when rescuing Icheb. They already had him on-board for one thing and wanted to escape capture at any costs.
Given the fact the probe ship in Dark Frontier was essentially Voyager's match ... a sphere (which is far larger and able to house Voygaer inside) is likely by multiple factors more powerful/durable than the probe ship, and use of maximum/deadly force is practically essential if you want to escape at all.
Plus nowhere in the episode was it even implied the torpedo that was transported inside the sphere was lower in yield ... in fact, Janeway would have sooner destroyed the ship instead of letting it fall into the Borg hands and assimilate everyone.

4. That's assuming that Cubes and Spheres (both much larger/denser/powerful than a probe ship) only have 1 power source/matric and not multiple amounts.
Given the Borg cube's ability to remain operational with 70% of it being disabled, I would probably guess the cubes (and Spheres) would come with multiple sources of energy, and not just one (essentially the same thing as having multiple TW coils instead of just one) which would allow them to operate even if you disable most of them ... not to mention numerous systems designed to be able to absorb various explosive blasts and cut of transmittion of those energy bursts into other systems since they'd be far apart (whereas in a small ship such as the probe, things would be much closer to each other with a lower tolerance for high energy explosions/distribution). The probe was obviously being damaged from Voyager's phaser blasts to begin with which indicated lower tolerance for incoming weapons fire compared to it's larger cousins (the spheres and cubes).

 

[Praetor]

1. & 2. Never stated the torpedoes yields cannot be changed.
In case of probe attack in Dark Frontier, Chakotay clearly said: 'I thought we were trying to disable it' which implies the torpedo could have been set on lower yield (although we don't know this for certain).
Then 7 clearly negated his statement by saying: 'The torpedo detonated near the power matrix ...'
Clearly indicating the explosion of the power matrix amplified the initial explosion by multiple factors and destroyed the entire ship (which was limited in it's size to begin with).

Okay, then we're agreed on that one. My point was that torpedo yields can vary, and that fact, combined with secondary explosions within the target ship, can account for the varying amounts of damage we've seen them inflict.

3. Uhm, ... no they were not cautious in doing damage to the Sphere when rescuing Icheb. They already had him on-board for one thing and wanted to escape capture at any costs.
Given the fact the probe ship in Dark Frontier was essentially Voyager's match ... a sphere (which is far larger and able to house Voygaer inside) is likely by multiple factors more powerful/durable than the probe ship, and use of maximum/deadly force is practically essential if you want to escape at all.
Plus nowhere in the episode was it even implied the torpedo that was transported inside the sphere was lower in yield ... in fact, Janeway would have sooner destroyed the ship instead of letting it fall into the Borg hands and assimilate everyone.

That was my mistake then; I remembered a second occasion in 'Dark Frontier' where they made a second similar attack and was addressing it, rather than the attack on the sphere that captured Icheb. Perhaps, then, they were unable to beam the torpedo to the correct location to trigger a detonation of the power core and destroy the sphere?

4. That's assuming that Cubes and Spheres (both much larger/denser/powerful than a probe ship) only have 1 power source/matric and not multiple amounts.
Given the Borg cube's ability to remain operational with 70% of it being disabled, I would probably guess the cubes (and Spheres) would come with multiple sources of energy, and not just one (essentially the same thing as having multiple TW coils instead of just one) which would allow them to operate even if you disable most of them ... not to mention numerous systems designed to be able to absorb various explosive blasts and cut of transmittion of those energy bursts into other systems since they'd be far apart (whereas in a small ship such as the probe, things would be much closer to each other with a lower tolerance for high energy explosions/distribution). The probe was obviously being damaged from Voyager's phaser blasts to begin with which indicated lower tolerance for incoming weapons fire compared to it's larger cousins (the spheres and cubes).

Even if the ships to have multiple power cores, there's no reason to assume that a single core's detonation would not be significant enough to destroy the ship in its entirety, or that the power cores would not be interlinked in some way where an initial destruction of one would not trigger an overall surge and resulting multiple explosions.

What I'm essentially saying is that there's no reason to automatically assume that the transphasic torpedoes must have a more powerful warhead than regular torpedoes, nor am I saying that it's impossible that transphasic torpedoes might not have a somewhat higher yield. A simple modified standard torpedo designed to penetrate enemy defenses could do what transphasic torpedoes are shown to do. Indeed, I think arguments for plausibility suggest that the less transphasic torpedoes vary from standard torpedoes, the better, as the Voyager crew had to come up with them rather quickly unless Admiral Janeway's shuttle has some hidden storage space...

 

[JuanBolio]

I would guess they're just as powerful against any ship - the way I figure they work is that their explosive warheads are not much more powerful than an ordinary photon or quantum torpedo, but they phase right through a ship's shields and hull and detonate inside - a multi-megaton blast from within will take out damn near anything.

I don't agree on the explosive yield bit because we have evidence that suggest 1 transphasic torpedoe would have to be several times as powerful compared to a standard photon torpedo.
1 Photon torpedo that detonated inside a Borg 'scout' ship (actually, designated as a 'probe') was enough to destroy it ... primarily because it detonated near the power matrix and the general goal of Voyager's crew was to disable the vessel, not destroy it.

On a second occasion, when they transported a torpedo and detonated it from inside a Borg sphere, it created a huge explosion and heavily damaged the vessel, but did NOT destroy it.

Borg cubes are far larger compared to spheres, and more durable.
You'd likely need to beam at least 4 to 6 photon torpedoes inside a cube to various locations in order to completely destroy it since Borg ships can operate even with over 70% of the vessel being disabled.

Since 1 transphasic torpedo was enough to eliminate a cube, there is a possibility it's explosive yield is equivalent to about 4, 6, or 10 photon torpedoes, and the effective explosive radius larger by a large amount.

Transporting a photon torpedo inside a 'regular race ship' would likely cause extreme damage and destroy it because they aren't Borg ships, unless the explosion is contained somehow with internal forcefields (although how much of the blast they'd be able to absorb is unknown) ... but again we can also speculate that the interior is made up of the same materials like the ship's external hull which could also prevent immediate destruction.

I'm basing this on the 50+ megaton yield a photon torpedo should have, not the piddly firecracker we usually see, even when set to "maximum yield". I cannot conceive of how such a blast from INSIDE wouldn't completely obliterate any Borg vessel even without overloading any power core or reactor.

 

[miraclefan]

I always thought that Transphasic ''torpedos'' were in some way related to Transwarp ''drive''? sort of like how Tranwarp was capable of ''Infinite'' velocity, the Transphasic torpedos were capable of ''Infinite'' destructive power? that still dosent explain that whole ''phasic'' part thou!?