TOS Movie Era: Neglected?

[Hey Missy]

After having recently marathoned the TOS movies, and read movie era tie-ins such as The Pandora Principle and some DC Comics from both runs including Debt of Honor, I've realized that in the last 10+ years, this particular era, its style, its aesthetics, are largely forgotten about. The Refit is pretty much ignored nowadays on merchandise in favor of the classic TOS Connie, the JJPrise and now the DiscoPrise. There haven't been Kirk or Spock figures in the affectionately-named "mountie" uniforms since Diamond Select in 2007.
But it's also the case with shows, novels, and games. Everything right now wants to be before TOS, during TOS, or far in the future after Nemesis. There's so much from 2271-2293 that's completely untapped. It's very rare for there to be a Pocket Books novel set in this time period.
Is there just not a whole lot of love and nostalgia for this era to warrant exploring it further? Or marketing it?

 

[Damian]

There's a bit of nostalgia about the original series that's missing from the movie era. TNG tapped it a bit when they viewed the past. For instance the Stargazer's bridge definitely had a movie era feel to it and the uniforms from the past depicted in "Night Terrors" and "Tapestry" were modified TWOK uniforms.

But nowadays, other than special editions of the movies I tend to agree, there's not much out there. I'm an avid novel reader and the last movie era novel was "Foul Deeds Will Rise" from a few years ago (which took place about 2 to 3 years after TFF). And I'm sorry to say I don't expect to see any further novels during the original series movie era. With all the shows CBS plans to be airing on CBS All Access the focus on the tie ins (including the novels) will be on the new shows, and the 5Y Mission. I honestly don't expect to see much more in the way of novels tied to the other spin off shows, nor the original movie era. Even a lot of the novel writers seem to indicate they would prefer writing a 5Y mission story then a movie era story.

Personally I'd love to see more novels in the movie era. I love 5Y mission books like the rest of them, but the problem is nowadays is there are probably enough stories for 10 five year missions. The movie era has a lot more untapped potential. Now there have been a number of books that take place in what is the 10+ years between TMP and TWOK. THe books you sited, the entire New Earth series which takes place over a year, and several others. However the roughly 7 to 8 period between TFF and TUC only has a handful of books. I'm reading one now "Probe" which takes place very soon after TFF.

But unless one of the novel writers, and the publisher, decides they have an idea and want to write a story that takes place somewhere in that time frame, I wouldn't expect to see any.

Neglected, maybe. But it may just as simple as being crowded out by everything else going on.

 

[Hey Missy]

Personally I'd love to see more novels in the movie era. I love 5Y mission books like the rest of them, but the problem is nowadays is there are probably enough stories for 10 five year missions.

I completely agree. The current ongoing 5YM series that started around 2009 has made it feel extremely crowded. Why not some set during that supposed "other" 5YM, the one after TMP?

 

[Damian]

I completely agree. The current ongoing 5YM series that started around 2009 has made it feel extremely crowded. Why not some set during that supposed "other" 5YM, the one after TMP?

Yeah, that would be nice. I believe the last full size novel during that period was Christopher Bennett's "Ex Machina" novel (not counting E-books). It'd be nice to see a book pick up after that one. There's a lot of time that could be played with there.

And of course I would love more post-TFF stories as well. I remember how excited I was when I saw "Foul Deeds Will Rise" was going to be a post-TFF story. Not counting the comics, that'd be a great, untapped period of Star Trek history that still includes most of the original series characters.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Even a lot of the novel writers seem to indicate they would prefer writing a 5Y mission story then a movie era story.

That makes sense, quite frankly. The 5YM is a cleaner continuity. You don't have to explain if Spock has just died and been resurrected, or if the Enterprise just met God, or if they just made peace with the Klingons to start telling your story. All you really need to know to tell or read a TOS-era story is the classic "Space, the Final Frontier..." intro.

Plus there's the fact that all of the TOS characters are still in their prime in that era. That's another thing that makes it easy to just dive in.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

...
There haven't been Kirk or Spock figures in the affectionately-named "mountie" uniforms since Diamond Select in 2007.
...

I thought that the accepted name for that uniform was the Monster Maroon

That era does have a problem of not having a well known status quo to fall back to. Harder to make a stand-alone story that does not have to explain a lot of background information before getting to the story.

 

[Damian]

That makes sense, quite frankly. The 5YM is a cleaner continuity.

That era does have a problem of not having a well known status quo to fall back to. Harder to make a stand-alone story that does not have to explain a lot of background information before getting to the story.

I'm not sure. I mean in Ex Machina it was pretty obviously a post-TMP story, a simple line about just encountering V'Ger was enough to establish the time period (and there was much more). An author might have to do a bit of research on other characters and the re-fit Enterprise (or the similar Enterprise-A), but there's certainly plenty of reference materials to draw on (Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise for instance). And I don't think our novel writers are afraid of a little research. In one sense having less to work with (6 movies instead of 79 episodes) might be a little easier, esp. considering there's over a decade in-universe between TMP and TWOK, and 7-8 years between TFF and TUC. There's a lot of empty space there.

I actually think it's much simpler then that for 2 reasons. One was a reason one of the authors gave some time ago (I want to say Greg Cox) that when writing a book it's easier to think of the original 5 year mission. And I think the 2nd is simple economics. Pocketbooks probably feels that people would rather read a book that takes place during the series then the movies. The Abramsverse movies may have complicated things a bit because some people probably think of those movies when they think of Star Trek films. Not as many casual fans think of the first 6 movies anymore. Now I personally think there's still a market out there for stories during the 6 initial movies. Star Trek novels are a niche market with a pretty loyal following I think. But with so many shows, and them wanting to capitalize on Star Trek, including the source which is the original 5YM, I just think other stories will be crowded out.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'm not sure. I mean in Ex Machina it was pretty obviously a post-TMP story, a simple line about just encountering V'Ger was enough to establish the time period (and there was much more).

It's been a long time since I've read Ex Machina, but as I recall, there was a lot more exposition than just a reference to V'Ger. There was stuff about Spock's new emotional revelation in TMP, Kirk readjusting to his command after away at Starfleet for 2 1/2 years, McCoy and his breakup with Natira, how the refit Enterprise had a much more diverse crew than the old one by Captain Decker's design, and probably other stuff that I'm forgetting.

Now, I'm not saying that any of that stuff was a nuisance for Christopher to include (he's one of the bigger TMP fans I've ever encountered, so he probably loved putting in all that stuff), but it might be more than most authors want to do before they can start telling their own story.

One was a reason one of the authors gave some time ago (I want to say Greg Cox) that when writing a book it's easier to think of the original 5 year mission.

Yeah. It's much easier to just start out your story with a quick paragraph like:

"Captain's Log, Stardate 3654.2. The Enterprise is in orbit about Treblenk IV, a planet where the natives are all dying from a horrible disease. We are transporting a cure from the nearest Federation Medical Colony."​

And then you can just dive into your plot. You don't have to worry if McCoy is still recovering from having Spock's katra in him, if Sulu's about to take command of the Excelsior, or if Scotty has a hangnail, or whatever.

Basically, my feeling is that there's not much reason to set a Trek story during the movie era unless it specifically relates to something from the movie era. YMMV.

 

[Damian]

It's been a long time since I've read Ex Machina, but as I recall, there was a lot more exposition than just a reference to V'Ger.

Oh, yeah, definitely. I was just saying if he wanted, a simple line, or paragraph would have established the time period. There was certainly a lot more than that, but in that case it was part of the story he wanted to tell.

Basically, my feeling is that there's not much reason to set a Trek story during the movie era unless it specifically relates to something from the movie era. YMMV.

Yeah, that's my feeling as well. Perhaps in the early days back in the 80's it made more sense to do movie era books because the movies were active. Nowadays it seems to more come up when someone has something specific to the movie era they want to do. The 5YM is sort of the default for original series books, and they only do movie era books when it makes more sense for their story, or they want to follow up on a movie thread or something.

Personally, I'd love a movie era book now and again. The refit Enterprise (and Enterprise-A) was one of my favorite ship designs. I love envisioning a story from that period. And the crew was much more experienced and wise. I would never give up 5YM stories, it's just it'd be nice for a movie era book to pop up from time to time. I hope there will be more some day.

 

[STEPhon IT]

After having recently marathoned the TOS movies, and read movie era tie-ins such as The Pandora Principle and some DC Comics from both runs including Debt of Honor, I've realized that in the last 10+ years, this particular era, its style, its aesthetics, are largely forgotten about. The Refit is pretty much ignored nowadays on merchandise in favor of the classic TOS Connie, the JJPrise and now the DiscoPrise. There haven't been Kirk or Spock figures in the affectionately-named "mountie" uniforms since Diamond Select in 2007.
But it's also the case with shows, novels, and games. Everything right now wants to be before TOS, during TOS, or far in the future after Nemesis. There's so much from 2271-2293 that's completely untapped. It's very rare for there to be a Pocket Books novel set in this time period.
Is there just not a whole lot of love and nostalgia for this era to warrant exploring it further? Or marketing it?

I think there's a new band of audience, like myself, who truly appreciate how good TOS was and how clunky the movies were; also the cast were senior citizens during the movie run while the TV series they were young and adventurous and everything looked optimistic and bright. I think the JJTrek movies brought that brighter side of Trek as appealing. Besides TWOK I see nothing that would warrant exploration of that particular era.

 

[Vger23]

The TOS movie era is my favorite era in the entire franchise.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, that's my feeling as well. Perhaps in the early days back in the 80's it made more sense to do movie era books because the movies were active. Nowadays it seems to more come up when someone has something specific to the movie era they want to do. The 5YM is sort of the default for original series books, and they only do movie era books when it makes more sense for their story, or they want to follow up on a movie thread or something.

Yeah, exactly. I enjoy the movie era too, but it's definitely no longer an ongoing concern, since we're never going to see any more movies starring the original cast. So you lose that "These are the current adventures of the starship Enterprise" thing that made the comics and the novels in the 80s so much fun.

And setting something in the movie era can cause complications in a lot of places. Do you want to set something just before TWOK? Well, Kirk's back at a desk job and Spock is commanding a trainee ship. Between TWOK and TSFS? Well, Spock's dead. Between TSFS and TVH? The crew are fugitives in exile, Spock's not quite himself, and the Enterprise is gone. Right before TUC? Sulu's on another ship. Right after TUC? Most everyone is retired and scattered. Not that you can't tell good stories within each of those eras, but it does limit your options.

Really, the main places you can set something comfortably in the movie era are shortly after TMP, between TVH and TFF, or shortly after TFF and years before TUC. Those are the only times you have everybody aboard the ship at the same time. And even then, everyone's older than they were in TOS.

 

[Greg Cox]

In general, I'm only going to set something in the movie era if there's a specific reason to do so.

In Foul Deeds Will Rise, I needed time for Lenore Karidian to be pronounced sane and released back into the universe, so it made more sense to set the book many years after "Conscience of the King."

In Miasma, I needed Saavik to make the plot work, plus I wanted to demonstrate how much the older, wiser Spock had evolved since his first command in "The Galileo Seven."

But, yes if it's just a standalone TOS adventure, it's probably easier to set in during the 5YM so you don't have to dealing with the changing status quo of the movie era.

 

[mos6507]

Wrath of Khan will always be referenced. It was in Nemesis and with Into Darkness. The rest, not so much.

 

[Damian]

Really, the main places you can set something comfortably in the movie era are shortly after TMP, between TVH and TFF, or shortly after TFF and years before TUC. Those are the only times you have everybody aboard the ship at the same time. And even then, everyone's older than they were in TOS.

Probably the best places for movie era books are definitely between TMP and TWOK or between TFF and TUC, only because you've got years between those films to play with (even if you take into account some of the existing literature, like the 'New Earth' series which took pace over a year). TWOK-TSFS-TVH is pretty much one film into the next. There might be a few weeks to a few months in between each film, but unless you want to tell a concise, specific story, you're probably pretty limited what you can do in there. There have been a couple novels that take place after TUC including the Lost Era novels (that is another period of time that I love to read novels in--I loved the Lost Era novels and I'd love to see the Stargazer novels resurrected at some point---perhaps with the nu-TNG show coming out someone can be convinced to continue that series since it's Picard focused---there are years between the last Stargazer book and Christopher's Buried Age novel that are largely untouched, including Jack Crusher's time on the ship).

In general, I'm only going to set something in the movie era if there's a specific reason to do so.

Yeah, that sounds like the prevailing feeling among Trek lit these days, that there is some specific reason for a movie era book, or something someone wants to build off of that occurred during the movie era. I was glad you had a reason for a post TFF novel though. That era on the Enterprise-A is sometimes a forgotten, or lost era itself.

And like I said, I love 5YM books. I just hope someone has cause to write a movie era book every so often. Though, sadly (at least IMO) I think as we move farther and farther away from the first 6 films (and as CBS adds more new shows) they may be few and far between. Though, perhaps if they revive the E-books they were doing for a while, maybe some get snuck in there. And of course I'd still love to see more DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, Seekers, New Frontier, etc. novels and/or E-books....you know, I want it all , even if I think it's probably unlikely.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I love the look of the TOS Movie era (even TMP's pastel uniforms). The Movie Enterprise is probably my favourite incarnation, with TOS a close second.

In universe, it was a time of great change in the quadrant which hasn't had nearly enough focus from angles. Plus it was a time when Miranda's ruled the space lanes, and who doesn't want to see more of them?

 

[valkyrie013]

A recent one, I believe by Dayton Ward, was, somewhat set in 2282 or so, right before WOK, but was mainly in the 20th century with Roberta Lincoln, and her going to that time frame to recruit Kirk and Spock and take them back to 1985 or so.

I agree, there is a dirth of post Tos books, Lets look at the timeline, Refit launched in 2271 or so, and Wrath of Cumberbatch happened in 2285, so almost 15 years.
So lets just say, Admiral Kirk took her on a 2nd 5 year mission, that ends in 2276-7 ( Lets say it starts in 2272, after a year or so of shakedown cruise) so, then take another 6 months in 2277 for another refit ( 6 months to a year after every 5 year mission for a refit of the ship to fix things and upgrade)
So say, 2278-2283 is another 5 year mission, and then after that, its relegated to the academy for training cruises. I mean even with refits, the ship is 40 years old.
So you have plenty of time to put, almost anything in it. Only thing different is the ship is refited, Kirk is an admiral, Checkov is tactical/security, so you can introduce a alpha shift Navigator to the crew, and checkov leaves for the Reliant in.. 2283? as I'm guessing 1st officer. Chapel is a full doctor. So not much difference, maybe the 2nd 5 year voyage have Spock as captain, and Kirk as an admiral that goes out on the ship occasionally..

 

[Greg Cox]

There's also the fact that there's way more reference material for the 5YM than the movie era.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well Greg, to me that actually opens up more doors than closes, as in, I can pretty much write what I want without being constrained by the TV cannon. I've read pretty much most books for the past 10 years, and most Tos books have an entry at the begining saying, takes place after Journey to Babel to Spocks Brain. So you have to constrain your book to that time, and not mention what happens in a future episode, which can be good in a way if your story is related to that particular episode.
How about this:
An author submits an idea for an ongoing series set in the 2nd 5 year mission, There is absolutely Zero cannon ( there are some books set in it and can be referenced or ignored to suit the plot) There's not even any cannon that Kirk took the enterprise on a 2nd 5 year mission, all we have is at some point prior to 2285, the Enterprise is asigned to Sol System as a training ship for the Academy, from what it looks like in the film, atleast a few years prior. So you have 10 years of a blank slate to do, pretty much any story you want.
One could set up your own series of books ( Like new frontier) and flesh out that time, Maybe one could folow up on Tos stories like Ex Machina did with For the world is hollow. I just read the Legacy's trilogy, and like how the Tantalus field is explained in the transfer key, very good series.
I like stories that flesh out some idea from the show, but I also like stories that are somewhat self contained, not having to piggy back on some show story, Original vilian, original crew memebers that one can flesh out.

Though I understand that books must sale, and books set in Tos probably sell better than other era stuff..

 

[Damian]

Well Greg, to me that actually opens up more doors than closes, as in, I can pretty much write what I want without being constrained by the TV cannon. I've read pretty much most books for the past 10 years, and most Tos books have an entry at the begining saying, takes place after Journey to Babel to Spocks Brain. So you have to constrain your book to that time, and not mention what happens in a future episode, which can be good in a way if your story is related to that particular episode.
How about this:
An author submits an idea for an ongoing series set in the 2nd 5 year mission, There is absolutely Zero cannon ( there are some books set in it and can be referenced or ignored to suit the plot) There's not even any cannon that Kirk took the enterprise on a 2nd 5 year mission, all we have is at some point prior to 2285, the Enterprise is asigned to Sol System as a training ship for the Academy, from what it looks like in the film, atleast a few years prior. So you have 10 years of a blank slate to do, pretty much any story you want.
One could set up your own series of books ( Like new frontier) and flesh out that time, Maybe one could folow up on Tos stories like Ex Machina did with For the world is hollow. I just read the Legacy's trilogy, and like how the Tantalus field is explained in the transfer key, very good series.
I like stories that flesh out some idea from the show, but I also like stories that are somewhat self contained, not having to piggy back on some show story, Original vilian, original crew memebers that one can flesh out.

Though I understand that books must sale, and books set in Tos probably sell better than other era stuff..

I can see some of that. Even if you were to take most of the existing novels from that period and include them in a loose timeline, there's still a lot of empty space between TMP and TWOK, and TFF and TUC.

It probably depends on what an author is after. The movie era does offer a lot more freedom in a lot of ways due to those empty spaces. But there's less material to reference from that era and to draw on. And Greg probably hit it on the head for most authors. They probably only plan to do a movie era book when there's a conscious reason to do so, whether that be because of the timeframe they need, or like Christopher's Ex Machina book that actually built on things that occurred in TMP.

And in the future it may come down to the publisher. I anticipate that as CBS adds more series, there will be more tie-ins to the various TV serious. That will limit the number of novels available for other things. There will always bee original series books since that is the source of Star Trek. It's one of the reasons that probably in the not too distant future I figure there will be little to any movie era, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise (or any NF, or Seeker) books. Perhaps E-book novellas, but that's probably the most we can hope for. I figure probably even TNG books will shift to tie ins to the nu-TNG show as well.

So my guess is even if an author wanted to do a movie era book, they may be limited by something as simple as space on the calendar. Now I'm not sure how that works. If some author decided they wanted to do a book that took place 3 years before TWOK, would the publisher grant them a spot on the calendar for it? Or a DS9 book, or any other series not currently being aired other than the original series.