The yeoman program

[Nyotarules]

Off Topic:
The Academy to me is like.. Harvard, or Princeton.. They had them in the future.. Data was a professor in the AGT timeline.. So you do have other "universities" that quallify someone for Starfleet officer service, its just that the Academy is so prestigious, and a high mark.. But I guess one could get in with a degree from Andorian Community College of Accounting if there aligned with the Academy system..

But this does not match with the attitude that Starfleet Academy takes the brightest and the best, if anyone can join from any ole institution. I can see it taking the best nonhumans from their own planetary versions of Oxford, Cambridge, MIT etc

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Georgiou attended "Advanced Instellar Combat" training at the Laikan Military Academy, Deanna Troi studied psychology/psychological therapies at the University of Betazed...

This suggests that while Starfleet (admistratively) has one Academy for the "fast trackers" (to leverage contacts with the Admiralty, the Diplomatic Corps and the Federation Council), major institutions on the other members worlds at least have "ROTC" arrangements with "Starfleet Training Command" for the bulk of "restricted line" officer, staff officer and enlisted training.

Could we just say that the credits can transfer if a school is "accredited"?

 

[Christopher]

But this does not match with the attitude that Starfleet Academy takes the brightest and the best if anyone can join from any ole institution. I can see if taking the best nonhumans from their own planetary versions of Oxford, Cambridge, MIT etc

I'm sure it's based on merit, not elitism. They'd take the best students from any institution, as long as their individual scores and aptitudes were high enough.

And why wouldn't there be nonhumans at Oxford or MIT, or humans at the Bolian Technical Academy or whatever? Star Trek writers are too prone to ignore that immigration is a thing and populations would intermix from planet to planet.

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm sure it's based on merit, not elitism. They'd take the best students from any institution, as long as their individual scores and aptitudes were high enough.

And why wouldn't there be nonhumans at Oxford or MIT, or humans at the Bolian Technical Academy or whatever? Star Trek writers are too prone to ignore that immigration is a thing and populations would intermix from planet to planet.

You misinterpret my post. I wrote Starfleet would take students from planets with their own versions of MIT, Oxford or Cambridge etc. I did not say the Earth based schools would not have nonhuman students or even staff, or humans at non Earth based schools. (Even if the TNG era is mainly Starfleet and Federation humans on parade.)

 

[Christopher]

You misinterpret my post. I wrote Starfleet would take students from planets with their own versions of MIT, Oxford or Cambridge etc. I did not say the Earth based schools would not have nonhuman students or even staff, or humans at non Earth based schools. (Even if the TNG era is mainly Starfleet and Federation humans on parade.)

What you wrote was, "I can see if taking the best nonhumans from their own planetary versions of Oxford, Cambridge, MIT etc." Which implied something that you didn't mean, so it could stand clarification, which you've now provided. Problem solved.

 

[Nyotarules]

Star Trek writers are too prone to ignore that immigration is a thing and populations would intermix from planet to planet.

Yeah its one of the annoying things about the franchise, poor world building. Once the idea of a UFP was established, the Spock character should never have been so unique on Enterprise, giving the impression as if he is a Vulcan Highlander..there can only be one.

 

[Kor]

Not that being totally to true to canon matters but you can become an officer without even entering the academy , Michael Burnham joined Starfleet after graduating the Vulcan Science Academy. Perhaps the rules are as long as your school was prestigious you can join. The VSA makes Starfleet look like secondary school?

Burnham's level of education was equivalent to (or greater than) Starfleet Academy. So she was probably a shoo-in and just had to do a short officer candidacy training course or seminar with Starfleet to become a commissioned officer.

For comparison, the U.S. Army generally requires a four-year bachelor's degree at minimum to become a commissioned officer. And if the degree was from a civilian college or university instead of the Military Academy, and the candidate did not go through Reserve Officers' Training Corps at their educational institute, then they must also go through Officer Candidate School. But there is also an alternative track to become a commissioned officer for enlisted personnel with two years of college-level education in certain specialty fields, who are able to meet additional requirements such as aptitude and fitness levels, getting letters of recommendation from three senior officers, and then taking officer training specific to their field.

Kor

 

[valkyrie013]

There is probably some type of "ROTC" for other schools of higher learing on other planets, You join on, take the 2 weeks during summer break to learn about starfleet, etc. and when you graduate East Centauri School of Medeval Poetry, you have already done the "Offiecer school" so you just hop a ship to a starbase or primary planet, and await posting.

And there are probably "Waivers" for people who may not have gone to the acdemy, but have sufficent learning, or real world, experiance, or were part of some other fleet from a newly joined world...

There are possibly other "Academy" locations on "Primary" worlds such as Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, Colonies etc.

 

[trekshark]

I've always seen yeoman as a position/job not a rank, although that's largely from watching JAG
as for the academy discussion, there is real world precedence for being an officer without going to a military academy. The US branches have OCS for qualified enlisted NCOs and college graduates.

 

[Christopher]

I've always seen yeoman as a position/job not a rank, although that's largely from watching JAG

It's an enlisted rating, which is sort of like a job position but also sort of like a rank, I think.

 

[Henoch]

Earth Starfleet Academy = US Naval Academy (Annapolis). Not every officer in the Navy went to Annapolis, but a lot of them did. Same with Starfleet. Starfleet Academy grads: Kirk, Spock, Chekov, Mitchell, Finney. Probably non-Starfleet grads: Scott, McCoy. From Court Martial:

KIRK: Timothy, I haven't seen you since the Vulcanian expedition. (no reply) Well, I see our graduating class from the Academy is well represented. Corrigan. Teller. How you doing, Mike?

 

[Henoch]

From Charlie X:

RAND: Oh, Charlie. I was looking for you. I'd like you to meet Tina Lawton, Yeoman Third Class. Charlie Evans.​

Third Class?

 

[Christopher]

From Charlie X:

RAND: Oh, Charlie. I was looking for you. I'd like you to meet Tina Lawton, Yeoman Third Class. Charlie Evans.​

Third Class?

I think that's a real thing. When my father was in the Navy (drafted in peacetime in the '50s), his enlisted rating was Musician Third Class.

Looking at this -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_ratings -- it looks like the "classes" refer to pay grades and the ratings refer to specific jobs and specialties. So a Yeoman Third Class would be an E-4 pay grade, a Yeoman Second Class would be one grade above that at E-5, etc.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Pretty much.

Yeoman Third Class would be the specific title of a Petty Officer Third Class (a rank which may have been superseded by Crewman First Class by the 24th Century) specializing in the profession of Yeoman.

PO3 is not specifically mentioned on any of three later systems with detailed enlisted ranks, Bob Fletcher's first system used in TMP has only two indicated ranks (Petty Officer and Chief Petty Officer) and although his second expands this to five, only two Petty Officer ranks are knowledged, with Able'sman/Crewman getting an insignia for the first time. The final system, the gray patch used from the 2370s onwards, has been assumed to include a single chevron insignia for PO3 - following the USN/CG model - however in order to do this and incorporate the Crewman First Class invoked in dialogue in The Drumhead, they have to introduce non-canon "/" insignia to the system below the Petty Officer "<", with the nonsensical implication that a 17-year old apprentice outranks a (20+ year old) practitioner on at least his 3rd tour.

 

[MAGolding]

From Charlie X:

RAND: Oh, Charlie. I was looking for you. I'd like you to meet Tina Lawton, Yeoman Third Class. Charlie Evans.​

Third Class?

Yes.

I think that's a real thing. When my father was in the Navy (drafted in peacetime in the '50s), his enlisted rating was Musician Third Class.

Looking at this -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_ratings -- it looks like the "classes" refer to pay grades and the ratings refer to specific jobs and specialties. So a Yeoman Third Class would be an E-4 pay grade, a Yeoman Second Class would be one grade above that at E-5, etc.

Of course the question should be will it be a thing in in Starfleet centuries in the future? If it is a thing in a present rank system it should be possible for it to be a thing in a the future rank system.

So it is rather impressive for an approximately 17-year-old to be the equivalent of an E-4 and three grades above a recruit.

Pretty much.

Yeoman Third Class would be the specific title of a Petty Officer Third Class (a rank which may have been superseded by Crewman First Class by the 24th Century) specializing in the profession of Yeoman.

PO3 is not specifically mentioned on any of three later systems with detailed enlisted ranks, Bob Fletcher's first system used in TMP has only two indicated ranks (Petty Officer and Chief Petty Officer) and although his second expands this to five, only two Petty Officer ranks are knowledged, with Able'sman/Crewman getting an insignia for the first time. The final system, the gray patch used from the 2370s onwards, has been assumed to include a single chevron insignia for PO3 - following the USN/CG model - however in order to do this and incorporate the Crewman First Class invoked in dialogue in The Drumhead, they have to introduce non-canon "/" insignia to the system below the Petty Officer "<", with the nonsensical implication that a 17-year old apprentice outranks a (20+ year old) practitioner on at least his 3rd tour.

Tina should have been about a 17-year-old in age if she was said to be Charlie's age, but she was not necessarily an apprentice. Seventeen being the absolute minimum age to enter Starfleet would be another way that Starfleet is assumed to resemble the modern US navy, but it is not necessarily correct.

It is logical to expect, hope, or fear that with the progress of civilization in the future the minimum age to enter the military will rise and the maximum age to serve in the military will lower, until eventually they will meet and nobody will be in the military. But the future is not certain because it hasn't happened yet.

It is possible that in the future international treaties forbidding enlistment of persons under 15 and serving in combat for persons under 18 will no longer exist, and Starfleet might possibly under some conditions enlist persons an unspecified number of years younger than 17.

So if the suggestion that Yeoman Third Class is the equivalent of Petty Officer Third Class or E-4 is correct Tina Lawton might have either been promoted from recruit very fast or else spent a year each in three lower ranks to reach the grade of Yeoman Third Class.

In Star trek III: The Wrath of Khan the age of Peter Preston is not mentioned:

KIRK: Ah. And who do we have here?
PRESTON: Midshipman First Class Peter Preston, engineers mate, sir!
KIRK: First training voyage, Mister Preston?
PRESTON: Yes sir!

And Preston was portrayed by 19-year-old Ike Eisenmann who does look younger than his chronological age in the movie. But there is evidence that Preston was originally planned to be much younger than Eisenmann, since Vonda N. McIntyre's novelization and my copy of the script both describe Preston as 14.

 

[J.T.B.]

It's an enlisted rating, which is sort of like a job position but also sort of like a rank, I think.

The US Navy used to define it thus:

• Rank: an officer's grade (ensign, lieutenant etc.).
• Rating: An enlisted specialty (yeoman, machinist's mate, hospital corpsman etc.). Does not apply to E-1, E-3 and E-3 pay grades (seaman, fireman, airman etc.), though they do usually associate with their eventual rating for training purposes.
  
• Rate: The enlisted equivalent of rank. For petty officers, this combined the rating and the grade (yeoman third class, chief yeoman etc.).

I think this is still the case but I'm not positive.

US Navy personnel rarely use whole rating titles among themselves, instead they speak the abbreviation, "Y-N-three" for yeoman third class and so on.

Historical tangent: "Yeoman" originally meant someone who had charge of equipment or supplies for a superior, so there was a yeoman of the powder room, yeoman of the storeroom, sailmaker's yeoman etc. The yeoman responsible for a ship's signal flags in the Royal Navy eventually came to be in charge of all visual signalling, and became a very important petty officer, the yeoman of signals. The petty officer who handled a ship's correspondence and clerical work was known as the "writer."

In the US Navy around the time of the Spanish-American War, the various yeomen were combined under the title "storekeeper," and the title of "yeoman" was in turn transferred to the "writer," and I'm not sure why. But that title lives on in practice with the "captain's writer," a yeoman who works directly for the CO, and the "flag writer," the equivalent for an admiral.

 

[valkyrie013]

The Yeoman Tina may have been a Cadet that was doing her shipboard classes, and that she was filling in the Yeoman 3rd class billet for the duration, so she may have been 20? ( 3rd year academy??) either that or she enlisted at 18 and she maybe 18-19 when introduced to Charle.. on her first assignment to a ship, so close enough to same age range..

Also, there are "Prodegy's" now that graduate Harvard at like 14-15, so who knows what would happen in the future, might be able to go thru the academy early, but not join the service to 18..

As for Yeomans.. The captain might not be the only one that has one on ship, I mean lets see.. the Chief Engineer, maybe the Doctor, Department head usally have assistants to manage the paperwork, and manage the person's day.. So lets just say Yeoman Tina might be a Yeoman to Mr Spock in running the Science department, in charge of the paperwork, and getting spock to sign stuff, etc.

Maybe in the 24th cent.. may have a "Digital Yeoman" in that the main computer would sort, collate, present stuff to the department heads..

 

[Henoch]

The Yeoman Tina may have been a Cadet that was doing her shipboard classes, and that she was filling in the Yeoman 3rd class billet for the duration, so she may have been 20? ( 3rd year academy??) either that or she enlisted at 18 and she maybe 18-19 when introduced to Charle.. on her first assignment to a ship, so close enough to same age range..

A short shipboard assignment may be required for all Starfleet cadets. Kirk even had one. A Starship stint would be a feather in your cap come graduation and your next posting. The Enterprise may be on a 5YM, but it certainly takes on new crew and relives old crew, continuously.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

So if the suggestion that Yeoman Third Class is the equivalent of Petty Officer Third Class or E-4 is correct Tina Lawton might have either been promoted from recruit very fast or else spent a year each in three lower ranks to reach the grade of Yeoman Third Class.

It's certainly possible, however it doesn't seem probable that Tarses would a grade lower than someone who isn't even an adult given that it's explicitly his third tour (and in most services you "rate" before or during your first) and a naval tour can be anything from six months to three years in the RW (licensed media suggests that Simon was 21-22 during The Drumhead, the actor who played him, Spencer Garrett, was 28 so clearly they wanted to imply some experience (and does correspond to the TIS for Senior Airman in USAF), whereas the .

As I suggested above, the most sensible option, which fits with the rest of the canon information that we know, is that either the two ranks are equivalent and were used at different points, or given that "crewman" can a minimum be used in Starfleet for anyone below ensign, if not junior officers also, and the fact that the first rank is Ables'man (implicitly E3 or at least E2 rated), that logically follows that yeoman and crewman (and indeed petty officer) are interchangible and therefore "Crewman First, Medical Technician" would an E6 rank (though possibly closer to the old US Army Specialist 1st Class/Specialist 6 in being an autonomous worker rather than an NCO), whereas Lawton might be on some sort of "enlisted leadership track" hence why she uses the other form.

 

[MAGolding]

It's certainly possible, however it doesn't seem probable that Tarses would a grade lower than someone who isn't even an adult given that it's explicitly his third tour (and in most services you "rate" before or during your first) and a naval tour can be anything from six months to three years in the RW (licensed media suggests that Simon was 21-22 during The Drumhead, the actor who played him, Spencer Garrett, was 28 so clearly they wanted to imply some experience (and does correspond to the TIS for Senior Airman in USAF), whereas the...

I don't know what the relative ranks of Tina Lawton and Simon Tarses might have been about a century apart and centuries in our future.

What is the legal age of adulthood for Earth Humans in the era of TOS? In the 20th century it was lowered from 21 to 18 in the USA, and in some countries it is as low as 15. Furthermore, I have once read that military service grants legal majority, so possibly Tina Lawton could be a legal adult as a result of joining Starfleet.

Why can't someone be a grade lower in rank than someone younger in age?

I remind you that in the alternate universe in "Tapestry" Jean-Luc Picard found himself a lieutenant junior grade at the same age he was a captain in his normal timeline, so apparently it is possible for someone to have one or five promotions in Starfleet during the same time span depending on various factors. In that experience Picard finds that he is junior by two grades to Lieutenant Commander La Forge, who is only about 0.51 times Picard's age in "Tapestry".

And Picard never complains that this is a lie because it would be impossible for a Starfleet officer to go as long without promotion as he apparently did. Of course Picard doesn't complain that it would be impossible for La Forge to be a lieutenant commander at such a young age, because no doubt Picard himself was largely responsible for promoting La Forge to lieutenant commander several years ago and thus knows first hand that it is possible for an officer to be promoted that fast with good reviews by their superiors. Thus Picard must believe that Starfleet's normal promotion practices allow for both a 64-year-old lieutenant junior grade and a 33-year-old lieutenant commander.

And in "Datalore" Wesley says:

WESLEY: That everything that I have said would have been listened to if it came from an adult officer. Request permission to return to my quarters, sir.

And apparently it is within Picard's authority to appoint a 15-year-old civilian an acting ensign. And Wesley is put in charge of a team investigating unstable planets as early as the age of 16 in "Pen Pals".

As I remember, during the US Civil War there were a few "boy generals" who were promoted to brigadier generals and even in some cases major generals of United States Volunteers while still in their twenties. And the immediate subordinates of those generals in their twenties would usually have been in their thirties, forties, and fifties, possibly a few in their sixties.

One of those generals, Uriah Galusha Pennypacker, commanded a brigade as a colonel and then was promoted to brigadier general when his age in army records was about 25, I guess. However, it is possible that he was much younger than his age in army records, since sources give his birth date as late as June 1, in 1842, or even June 1, 1844. Thus it is possible that he may have been promoted to general age 20, when still a legal minor, and commanded a brigade age 19, which would make him years younger than most of the privates.

A close relative of mine was a sergeant in World War I aged 19, and his brother graduated from West Point and was commissioned a second lieutenant aged 20 years and about three weeks & thus had 11 more months to go before becoming a legal adult. And my research shows that he was not the youngest person to graduate from West Point and be commissioned a second lieutenant during the 20th century.

So I see no reason to believe that in Starfleet every single person who has a specific pay grade must be older than every person who holds the next lower pay grade and younger than every person who holds the next higher pay grade - and even if Starfleet members don't get paid in the TNG era they do get paid in the TOS era.