The USS Drake

[Dukhat]

Does the "only evidence" count since the source of the evidence is shown to be unreliable as it didn't even know Riker's first name or the name of the ship it claims it knows as its top speed, the Drake?

You can say that Riker's holodeck recreation in TATV was 'unreliable,' but it is still considered to be what happened. So yes. Fake-Rice made a statement about the Drake's top speed, and Riker didn't correct him. So that's the only evidence we have. Feel free to disagree with it, but there it is.

Regarding Warp 3 being the Light Cruiser's alleged top speed... why would a TNG-era light cruiser (that Riker was offered command to) be slower than the NX-01?

It's not. The NX-01's warp five max was the old-old scale (i.e. 100 years before TOS, which was already the old scale a century before TNG.) By TNG, the Drake's warp 3 max could have been warp 7 in the old scale, when the ship was originally built.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

It's not.

Yes, it is.

The NX-01's warp five max was the old-old scale (i.e. 100 years before TOS, which was already the old scale a century before TNG.)

AFAICT, only two scales for "ideal performance" have ever been established, typically referred to as the "Cochrance Scale" (as used in ENT/TOS/SNW) and the "TNG Scale" (used in the "Berman Era", PRO, LDS)?

By TNG, the Drake's warp 3 max could have been warp 7 in the old scale, when the ship was originally built.

Slightly under Warp 3.4 on the TOS Scale according to the resources I could find actually.

 

[Dukhat]

Yes, it is.



AFAICT, only two scales for "ideal performance" have ever been established, typically referred to as the "Cochrance Scale" (as used in ENT/TOS/SNW) and the "TNG Scale" (used in the "Berman Era", PRO, LDS)?



Slightly under Warp 3.4 on the TOS Scale according to the resources I could find actually.

The thing is, there has never been anything canonically stated that the warp scale changed. It was always just an assumption based on several factors. So you saying the NX-01’s warp scale is the same as the Enterprise-D’s warp scale, and me saying it isn’t, isn’t actually canonically right or wrong, just hypothetical guesses based on non-canon information.

And honestly, so what if the Drake’s maximum speed is warp three? If the NX-01 can make it from Earth to the Klingon homeworld in 4 days at less than warp five, so can the Drake.

 

[blssdwlf]

You can say that Riker's holodeck recreation in TATV was 'unreliable,' but it is still considered to be what happened. So yes. Fake-Rice made a statement about the Drake's top speed, and Riker didn't correct him. So that's the only evidence we have. Feel free to disagree with it, but there it is.

It's not. The NX-01's warp five max was the old-old scale (i.e. 100 years before TOS, which was already the old scale a century before TNG.) By TNG, the Drake's warp 3 max could have been warp 7 in the old scale, when the ship was originally built.

If you review the evidence, Fake-Rice doesn't even know of the USS Drake when it asked about the top speed.

A more accurate statement would be "Fake-Rice made a statement about an unknown ship's top speed being Warp 3. Riker did not confirm or deny the speed statement because he knew Fake-Rice might have been responsible for the Drake's disappearance."

It's not. The NX-01's warp five max was the old-old scale (i.e. 100 years before TOS, which was already the old scale a century before TNG.) By TNG, the Drake's warp 3 max could have been warp 7 in the old scale, when the ship was originally built.

Regarding warp scales - I was under the impression that ENT's warp scale was the same as TNG's as both are Berman era. Only TOS' warp scale is different because we have numerical evidence that it's generally faster than TNG's by a wide margin when traveling interstellar distances and best to leave out of the discussion, IMHO.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Regarding warp scales - I was under the impression that ENT's warp scale was the same as TNG's as both are Berman era. Only TOS' warp scale is different because we have numerical evidence that it's generally faster than TNG's by a wide margin when traveling interstellar distances and best to leave out of the discussion, IMHO.

No, in ST:ENT, they were using the TOS Warp Factor Scale.

TNG's Warp Scale is faster than TOS.

Go ahead, read up about it in the link I provided in Memory Alpha.

 

[Ithekro]

We do know that ENT was using the old warp scale from TOS as they give a few data point early in the series that are consistent with the old Warp Factor Cubed scale of FTL travel. The major anomaly is getting to the Klingon Homeworld and back into Earth space in a relatively short about of time in the pilot episodes. The time it would take to reach Neptune fits with the old system, as does the Enterprise's progress as it heads out towards Risa.

The TNG scale is more nebulous. Just that warp 3 is slow.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The TNG scale is more nebulous. Just that warp 3 is slow.

It's only nebulous once you have to deal with the "Hand Drawn Curve to Infinity past Warp 9".

The TNG era Warp Factor Formula works just fine IMO on it's own as a measurement of FTL speed w/o having to mention ridiculous amounts of ###,###,###c

That's why with my Warp Factor Scale Ver 3.0, I literally, throw that "Hand Drawn Curve to Infinity past Warp 9" and let the TNG era formula run naturally to infinity, one whole intgeger Warp Factor Digit at a time.

I have a giant excel table for it.

And for "Daily Use" within the show, even with all the advanced FTL Drives, you only need to talk about Warp Factors in the range of 1-1000 for even the most advanced FTL drives.

So to me, it's largely a solved problem, one that fixes what the original staff on the show wanted to do.

Which was give a sense of speed progression w/o having to do something silly like adding a series of 9's after 9.9999… to indicate speed progression.

Which is what they came up with in the TNG era, but I guess back then in the late 80's, early 90's not enough people had PC / Excel SpreadSheets who could do the math for them.

Obviously, we're in a different era and I have all that figured out for quite a while.

 

[CaptChris42]

I'd generally assume in this case that the USS Drake has the equivalent of metal fatigue or other operational strains... and so has been limited to low speeds for most operations.
Maybe pending an upcoming refit, or maybe early retirement.

It's semi official registry implies an older ship contemporary maybe to the Ambassador-class, and if so, it may simply have had too stressful and eventful a career already.

 

[blssdwlf]

We do know that ENT was using the old warp scale from TOS as they give a few data point early in the series that are consistent with the old Warp Factor Cubed scale of FTL travel. The major anomaly is getting to the Klingon Homeworld and back into Earth space in a relatively short about of time in the pilot episodes. The time it would take to reach Neptune fits with the old system, as does the Enterprise's progress as it heads out towards Risa.

The TNG scale is more nebulous. Just that warp 3 is slow.

No, in ST:ENT, they were using the TOS Warp Factor Scale.

TNG's Warp Scale is faster than TOS.

Go ahead, read up about it in the link I provided in Memory Alpha.

ST:ENT's speeds were consistent with Warp Factor Cubed scale however TOS did not adhere to this.

Numerically speaking, TOS' Warp 8 in interstellar space is faster than Voyager's Warp 9.9. If Voyager could travel as fast as the TOS Enterprise in interstellar space then Voyager would be home in a few months.

So really, it is best to leave TOS out as it didn't have the so-called Warp Factor Cubed scale in the series.

 

[publiusr]

Now it could very well be that Drake had some repairs limiting it to warp 3, but the AI just didn’t see that.

 

[knightgrace]

This makes sense.

Problem: in the TNG episode 'Up the Long Ladder' Riker addressing the issue of cleaning up after the animals stated that the ship's computer would handle this as part of a maintenance function (not an exact quote).

I imagine that there are different levels of routine maintenance for various requirements, such as animal waste, intelligence waste, carpet repair, paint scratches and scrapes, dents worn outer hull panels, missing hull panels, missing hull sections...

This by the way blows Voyager out of the water. The damage sustained to Voyager in the pilot episode 'Caretaker' would have been detected and repaired, almost instantly...

Microfractures, warp core, and so on.

Basically over time she would always a relatively new ship.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

This makes sense.

Problem: in the TNG episode 'Up the Long Ladder' Riker addressing the issue of cleaning up after the animals stated that the ship's computer would handle this as part of a maintenance function (not an exact quote).

I imagine that there are different levels of routine maintenance for various requirements, such as animal waste, intelligence waste, carpet repair, paint scratches and scrapes, dents worn outer hull panels, missing hull panels, missing hull sections...

This by the way blows Voyager out of the water. The damage sustained to Voyager in the pilot episode 'Caretaker' would have been detected and repaired, almost instantly...

Microfractures, warp core, and so on.

Basically over time she would always a relatively new ship.

So every ship is "The Ship of Theseus"?

 

[knightgrace]

As long as fuel and power lasts.

The second law of thermal dynamics fors come into play, however. As a ship travels through space there is always going to be some leakage.

As people beam down, some loss there as well. I don't think that beaming into a higher pressure environment, then back again the safety systems would allow to much coming back.

Picture this, you beam down to a planet, that has a higher pressure, let's say that it is water at two atmospheres of pressure. Do you really want a great many unknowns - never mind biologicals coming onto the ship?there are a whole slew of problems.

 

[knightgrace]

I was behind another school bus today, with the number '243', which is very interesting.

243=3^5

An older idea for TNG's warp factor differences.

 

[publiusr]

NCC-1729 might be the Kelvin Excelsior
(1799 for the ERTL die-cast?)

Ertl Company

The Ertl Company (known as Ertl) was an American manufacturer of die-cast and injection-molded plastic models. Founded in 1945 by Fred Ertl, Sr., the Iowa-based Ertl Company occupied a niche in the booming post-war die-cast model market by specializing in the production of agricultural farming...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

But I think NCC-1729—being a famous taxi number—should be USS Ramanujan

SFB has it as Farragut I think.

 

[DSG2k]

Riker had no reason to call out Rice's "Warp 3" statement.

Bingo. He was interested in the "is" and the thought that it implied, not nitpicking the fake Rice like he was on some nerd on a Trek tech foru . . . er, wait. Crap. ;-)

More to the point, if a scumbag weirdo says he drove his {insert your favorite sports car} at its top speed of 10 miles per hour to {sleep with your spouse / get you fired / steal your favorite thing} yesterday, the punch you might throw has nothing to do with a critique of his automotive knowledge. However, that lack of specific challenge about it doesn't imply that you agree about the top speed.

 

[DSG2k]

ST:ENT's speeds were consistent with Warp Factor Cubed scale however TOS did not adhere to this.

Enterprise consistently showed warp five to be in the 1500c range.

ST-v-SW.Net Tech Archive :: Enterprise Chronology - Early S1

Warp Speeds List - Starfleet Jedi

Roughly condensed:

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[blssdwlf]

Enterprise consistently showed warp five to be in the 1500c range.

ST-v-SW.Net Tech Archive :: Enterprise Chronology - Early S1

Warp Speeds List - Starfleet Jedi

Roughly condensed:

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Thanks for the data. It would appear that ST: ENT (and TNG) doesn't adhere to the warp cubed formula after Warp 4ish.

 

[Dukhat]

Bingo. He was interested in the "is" and the thought that it implied, not nitpicking the fake Rice like he was on some nerd on a Trek tech foru . . . er, wait. Crap. ;-)

Or, Riker didn’t acknowledge it because it was correct.

 

[DSG2k]

Or, Riker didn’t acknowledge it because it was correct.

He made no reaction to it of any kind, it came from a fake, thus it is no data point at all.