The USS Drake

[knightgrace]

Someone brought up the USS Drake, the Light Cruiser, mentioned in TNG episode 'Arsenal of Freedom '...I Decided that it would be in appropriate to bring up something that has bugged for decades now. Warp Factor three her top speed???

A taking into account the rules laid for warp factors in TNG, the peak transitional threshold, there is another problem. Aside from being very slow. It means that getting up to warp factor three would be a problem.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I find it more unbelievable that the USS Lollipop only has an armament of 10 when it's supposed to be a good ship.

 

[mithril]

warp factor 3 in TNG would be a little under warp 4 in TOS, perhaps the Drake was an old ship from the same era as the Miranda and Oberth, kept around because it's useful for support roles?

its also possible that the holographic image of the ship's captain that stated that value didn't actually know the top speed of a federation ship (it was an ancient weapon systems AI trying to gain intel after all) and it just gave the speed that a ship of the Minosians (who built the weapon) would have. the AI in that was very limited in its knowledge and while the weapons were very powerful, we don't really know if their drive technology was particularly advanced.

 

[knightgrace]

Still thinking on it.

 

[blssdwlf]

The weapon system didn't know Riker's first name and was asking for info about the Enterprise so it is entirely possible that the Warp 3 top speed is a guess by the weapon or a false info provided by Rice or Rice's crew prior to their destruction.

 

[Dukhat]

When Rice mentioned that the Drake's top speed was warp three, Riker didn't correct him or acknowledge that he was wrong. Therefore we must assume that the Drake's top speed was indeed warp three, however ludicrous that sounds. However, the Drake doesn't seem to be a top-of-the-line ship, so it was probably older and not as fast as a modern warp nine ship. And yes, warp three in the TNG scale could have been warp seven in the TOS scale, so that could be an indication of how old the ship is.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Riker had already said Rice's mother had sent him and his ship was the Lollipop by that point.

 

[Dukhat]

RICE: Riker, you didn't answer me. Who sent you here to look for me?
RIKER: Your mother. She's worried about you.
RICE: Tell me about your ship, Riker. It's the Enterprise, isn't it?
RIKER: No. The name of my ship is the Lollipop.
RICE: I have no knowledge of that ship.
RIKER: It's just been commissioned. It's a good ship.
RICE: Refresh me, would you, Riker? What's its size, it's complement?
RIKER: Who is here with you?
RICE: What's the armament on the Lollipop?
RIKER: Paul, I will only answer your questions if you answer mine. Why do you want to know so much about my ship?
RICE: We're friends, aren't we?
RIKER: Old friends.
RICE: Our top speed is warp three. What's yours?
RIKER: Is? Then the Drake has not been destroyed.
RICE: The Drake?
RIKER: Yes, your ship.
RICE: Of course, my ship is the Drake.

As far as Riker is concerned, Rice's description of the Drake being only capable of warp three was accurate.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I got no impression that Riker believed a word the Rice projection was saying, he was (barely) playing along to test it and get more information about what happened to the Drake. He doesn't care about the warp speed being wrong, that's just one more bit of evidence on top of the pile that this thing is definitely not Rice.

 

[Dukhat]

I got no impression that Riker believed a word the Rice projection was saying, he was (barely) playing along to test it and get more information about what happened to the Drake. He doesn't care about the warp speed being wrong, that's just one more bit of evidence on top of the pile that this thing is definitely not Rice.

That’s a perfectly valid interpretation. However, without any other substantive evidence to the contrary, we can only go by what was mentioned on screen. Riker gives no specific indication that Rice’s comment about the Drake’s top speed was in error. In fact, if Rice mentioned that his ship could only go as fast as warp 3, then Riker should have immediately pointed that out as nonsense, but he didn’t. If someone told me their car’s top speed was 20 MPH, I would have looked at them like they were nuts.

 

[Ithekro]

Starfleet should have stopped using Warp 3 starships by the end of the 22nd century. Even in the newer scale that isn't much faster that thirty times the speed of light, and way below the speed of plot. They should not have a need for a ship that slow more that two hundred years after the introduction of the Warp 5 drives. Even freighters have a better speed than that.

 

[blssdwlf]

That’s a perfectly valid interpretation. However, without any other substantive evidence to the contrary, we can only go by what was mentioned on screen. Riker gives no specific indication that Rice’s comment about the Drake’s top speed was in error. In fact, if Rice mentioned that his ship could only go as fast as warp 3, then Riker should have immediately pointed that out as nonsense, but he didn’t. If someone told me their car’s top speed was 20 MPH, I would have looked at them like they were nuts.

Riker had no reason to call out Rice's "Warp 3" statement. Riker already knew that Rice was some kind of imposter and there was no reason for Riker to confirm anything that the imposter was stating or asking. There is no corroborating evidence that the Light Cruiser USS Drake's top speed is Warp 3, IMHO.

Or to your example, if someone whose intentions you did not trust told you their car's top speed was 20 MPH, you'd nod and let them continue with their questioning without giving away any facts.

RIKER: Me? Forget about me. How are you? No word, no message, nothing.​

RICE: How many are with you?​

RIKER: There are two others. Where's the Drake? Where's your crew?​

PICARD [OC]: Number One, a word. We have some information you should be aware of.​

​

[Bridge]​

​

PICARD: Ensign T'Su?​

T'SU: Sensors indicate low level energy readings, but the only life signs are the away team.​

PICARD: You copy, Number One?​

​

[Jungle]​

​

RIKER: Understood. You look strange, Paul.​

RICE: I was injured getting here.​

(Tasha and Data arrive)​

RIKER: Do you need medical help?​

RICE: No. What's your purpose here?​

RIKER: Commander Data, Lieutenant Yar.​

DATA: Sir, other than ourselves, I am picking up no life signs here.​

RIKER: I know.​

...​

RICE: Our top speed is warp three. What's yours?​

RIKER: Is? Then the Drake has not been destroyed.​

RICE: The Drake?​

RIKER: Yes, your ship.​

 

[Dukhat]

Starfleet should have stopped using Warp 3 starships by the end of the 22nd century. Even in the newer scale that isn't much faster that thirty times the speed of light, and way below the speed of plot. They should not have a need for a ship that slow more that two hundred years after the introduction of the Warp 5 drives. Even freighters have a better speed than that.

Riker had no reason to call out Rice's "Warp 3" statement. Riker already knew that Rice was some kind of imposter and there was no reason for Riker to confirm anything that the imposter was stating or asking. There is no corroborating evidence that the Light Cruiser USS Drake's top speed is Warp 3, IMHO.

Or to your example, if someone whose intentions you did not trust told you their car's top speed was 20 MPH, you'd nod and let them continue with their questioning without giving away any facts.

RIKER: Me? Forget about me. How are you? No word, no message, nothing.​

RICE: How many are with you?​

RIKER: There are two others. Where's the Drake? Where's your crew?​

PICARD [OC]: Number One, a word. We have some information you should be aware of.​

​

[Bridge]​

​

PICARD: Ensign T'Su?​

T'SU: Sensors indicate low level energy readings, but the only life signs are the away team.​

PICARD: You copy, Number One?​

​

[Jungle]​

​

RIKER: Understood. You look strange, Paul.​

RICE: I was injured getting here.​

(Tasha and Data arrive)​

RIKER: Do you need medical help?​

RICE: No. What's your purpose here?​

RIKER: Commander Data, Lieutenant Yar.​

DATA: Sir, other than ourselves, I am picking up no life signs here.​

RIKER: I know.​

...​

RICE: Our top speed is warp three. What's yours?​

RIKER: Is? Then the Drake has not been destroyed.​

RICE: The Drake?​

RIKER: Yes, your ship.​

Yes, a ludicrous statement is a ludicrous statement. But since Riker doesn’t question it, there’s still no evidence that it’s not true.

 

[blssdwlf]

Yes, a ludicrous statement is a ludicrous statement. But since Riker doesn’t question it, there’s still no evidence that it’s not true.

However, why does Riker need to question it? If he questioned it then it would give the adversary more information about Starfleet's capabilities. There are no good reasons to confirm or deny that the statement is ludicrous when Riker already knew that was not Rice that he was talking to.

If you were a US Air Force fighter pilot and you know the guy that you are talking to is falsely claiming to be a fellow US Air Force fighter pilot and the guy asked you, "The max range of my F-35 is 20 miles. What's yours?" You wouldn't confirm or deny it, would you?

 

[Dukhat]

Riker questions that the ship is still intact when Rice states the Drake’s top speed. He doesn’t even acknowledge whether Rice is correct or not, because he’s focused more on if the ship had been destroyed. So technically yes, Rice could have said the ship’s top speed was warp fifty, for all Riker was listening to him. But it isn’t about Riker’s response; it’s about the information fake-Rice gave about the Drake. Now granted, fake-Rice gave the ship’s speed but was then caught off guard about the Drake’s name. So I’ll concede that it’s possible he just gave a random warp number that had nothing to do with the Drake. But again, in lieu of any conflicting evidence, the warp three comment is the only evidence we have of the ship’s true max speed.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Maybe it's an NV/Intrepid or warp delta from ENT

 

[somebuddyX]

Warp 3 can't be that bad if the Enterprise-era ships were getting around the stars below that.

 

[Ithekro]

The TNG scale warp 3 would be slightly faster than the TOS/ENT scale Warp Factor 3, but still, it would take around 40 to 50 days to reach the next star system. The "Boomers" in using Warp 1.2 and 1.8 freighters in ENT would take half a year to many years to make such a trip.

Sending a Starfleet ship to explore at warp 3 would take half a year to cross a sector of space. That was why in ENT the Warp 5 engine was such a big deal. Enterprise could actually get places and look around in a reasonable amount of time. See a new star system every few weeks. While a 24th century starship is cruising at Warp 6 as seeing a new system every four days.

 

[knightgrace]

Which raises the issue of just how long they keep using a design...

 

[blssdwlf]

But again, in lieu of any conflicting evidence, the warp three comment is the only evidence we have of the ship’s true max speed.

Does the "only evidence" count since the source of the evidence is shown to be unreliable as it didn't even know Riker's first name or the name of the ship it claims it knows as its top speed, the Drake?

Regarding Warp 3 being the Light Cruiser's alleged top speed... why would a TNG-era light cruiser (that Riker was offered command to) be slower than the NX-01?