The rank of "Doctor"

[Itisnotlogical]

Where does the chief medical officer (Bones, Dr. Crusher, etc.) fit into the command structure? They don't seem to be lieutenants or lieutenant-commanders like most command officers are. If a command officer got into a dispute with the Doc, who would have the right-of-way, command-wise?

 

[Bishop76]

All of the Starfleet doctors have rank in the show. McCoy is a Lt. Commander, Crusher is a Commander, Bashir starts out as a Lt., jg and gets promoted through the show.

 

[RoJoHen]

They do, indeed, have ranks. However, under certain circumstances, they can use their authority as Chief Medical Officer to override their superiors.

 

[Chaos Descending]

The CMO is not parts if the normal ship's "chain of command" as such, even though they still hold an officer's commission and a rank, as Bishop76 pointed out.

Their sphere of influence is strictly related to their medical profession.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Is it? Crusher got the conn on at least one occasion.

 

[Bishop76]

^ that.

She was the captain at least through most of the Descent 2 parter.

 

[USS Excelsior]

And if Data is in command of the ship, as Acting Captain the Doctor would have to obey his orders.

 

[RoJoHen]

^ that.

She was the captain at least through most of the Descent 2 parter.

And?

She still holds the rank of Commander and can be in charge of the ship if the situation calls for it.

 

[Bishop76]

She sure does and I never said otherwise. Not sure why you're taking umbrage with me agreeing with you...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Is it? Crusher got the conn on at least one occasion.

That was only because she took the special bridge officer's test (see the episode "Thine Own Self", where we see Deanna take the test). All scientific officers - be they scientists, doctors, counselors, basically anyone who wears blue - must take this test if they want to get a bridge watch. Without this, a Starfleet doctor may have rank, but can never be in the chain of command. Beverly did get the command chair on occasion (and in TNG's alternate future final episode, had permanent command of a starship), so she must have taken it.

As has been pointed out, a ship's doctor can override the captain and declare them unfit for command, but the doc cannot actually *take* command. Once the doctor exercises the right to remove the captain in this way, command passes to the next officer on down, usually the XO.

As for whether a Starfleet doctor goes to the Academy: That's a bit nebulous. We see McCoy at the Academy in ST XI, but it's unclear exactly what he's doing there. He could be simply doing a bit of catch-up work. IRL, a military doctor skips the service academy (of whatever branch they're in) and is commissioned at an intermediate rank - Captain for the army/air force/marines, Lieutenant for the navy. No word on whether Starfleet also does this.

 

[Nerys Myk]

When Crusher assumes command of the ship she's not acting as the CMO, but as a qualified command officer. IIRC, she had to undergo special training to be able to do this. People often confuse the rank of Commander with being able to command.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

That was only because she took the special bridge officer's test (see the episode "Thine Own Self", where we see Deanna take the test). All scientific officers - be they scientists, doctors, counselors, basically anyone who wears blue - must take this test if they want to get a bridge watch. Without this, a Starfleet doctor may have rank, but can never be in the chain of command. Beverly did get the command chair on occasion (and in TNG's alternate future final episode, had permanent command of a starship), so she must have taken it.

Wasn't it a test without which one cannot be promoted to a commander? I was under impression each commander-to-be has to take this test, otherwise they stay lieutenant commanders.

Troi was promoted after she'd finally passed it and Data noticed her new rank when he was back aboard the ship.

 

[Pauln6]

I think it is probably a bit of both - that staff with limited command experience can only be appointed to command the bridge if they have the commander rank and the additional tactical training and non command trained staff only get the promotion to commander if they pass the test.

All starfleet officers would have some command training and should be capable of taking command in a crunch, which makes Troi's inept performance quite embarassing for her as a character. We see many science-trained officers in command roles (Spock, Sulu, Picard, Janeway, Jadzia Dax). I think it probably has more to do with the history of the particular officer than a general rule - Beverly and Troi had limited command experience so they were required to train and take the test.

As ever, Star Trek appears pretty inconsistent. Nobody will ever convince me that McCoy would ever have wanted to command the bridge and based on this, he should have remained a Lt-commander. Maybe Kirk insisted he be promoted when he had him reinstated.

 

[C.E. Evans]

As for whether a Starfleet doctor goes to the Academy: That's a bit nebulous. We see McCoy at the Academy in ST XI, but it's unclear exactly what he's doing there. He could be simply doing a bit of catch-up work. IRL, a military doctor skips the service academy (of whatever branch they're in) and is commissioned at an intermediate rank - Captain for the army/air force/marines, Lieutenant for the navy. No word on whether Starfleet also does this.

I tend to think that most doctors get the bulk of their training at Starfleet Medical, with various elective courses (including advanced sciences, engineering, possibly even some leadership/administrative training) taken at Starfleet Academy, IMO.

It may even be required for any doctor wishing to serve aboard a starship or space station to take such courses there, perhaps...

 

[indolover]

Doctor is a position and not a rank. No more than Tactical Officer, Counsellor, Helm Officer, or even executive officer, are ranks.

The rank of a doctor may depend on his/her Starfleet experience, or the importance of the installation. Crusher on the Enterprises (the flagships obviously) was a Commander. however, Bashir at the outset of DS9 was a Lt. Junior Grade. At the outset, DS9 was obviously not a strategically important Starfleet posting.

 

[Forbin]

My question is, in a REAL, present-day navy, is the ship's CMO ever required (or allowed) to take command? Or is it just Trekkish BS written by writers who've never been in the service, or even outside the L.A. basin?

'Cause I'd be a real nervous crewman if I knew the Capt was absent and The Dancing Doctor was making tactical decisions during a critical crisis, when there's probably a Lt or Ensign around with actual tactical/command training.

 

[Nerd unRage]

What difference would it make? Star Trek is fiction, set in the future. Clearly the ranks used in it are more or less a way for the audience to have something to identify with.

I get the impression Starfleet isn't a true military academy the way the miltary works today. It seems Starfleet is more like a peace-keeping service rather than conducting full-blown military operations. They may engage in combat and be "deployed" in certain situations.

 

[Chaos Descending]

My question is, in a REAL, present-day navy, is the ship's CMO ever required (or allowed) to take command?

No.

Naval Doctors are Staff Officers, not Line Officers, and are therefore not a part of the ship's chain of command.

On Nimitz, where I served, the SMO was a Captain. The newest Ensign on the ship would have chain of command precedence over the SMO in a real emergency.

 

[RoJoHen]

My question is, in a REAL, present-day navy, is the ship's CMO ever required (or allowed) to take command? Or is it just Trekkish BS written by writers who've never been in the service, or even outside the L.A. basin?

Well, since 24th Century Starfleet is NOT the 21st Century US Navy, this really isn't a good argument.

 

[Chaos Descending]

My question is, in a REAL, present-day navy, is the ship's CMO ever required (or allowed) to take command? Or is it just Trekkish BS written by writers who've never been in the service, or even outside the L.A. basin?

Well, since 24th Century Starfleet is NOT the 21st Century US Navy, this really isn't a good argument.

Questions aren't arguments.