The Q as future humanity / artificial ascension

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

In Star Trek Voyager's episode "Threshold," we got a kinda gross and kinda silly look at where humanity's evolution is heading. Apparently salamanders are the highest end of human evolution.

Or is it? Much of modern sci-fi tackles the technical possibilities and ethical questions of what amounts to artificial ascension. Examples from film and TV include "Transcendence," "Caprica," "Stargate Atlantis." In SG Atlantis, many of "the Ancients" ascended by achieving a certain level of zen/enlightenment/whatever you want to call it, and it was a natural process. But some of their kindred, who weren't as down with zen, wanted to achieve the same end by technical means. They built machines to help speed up the process, with mixed results.

When watching any ST episode that includes Q or anyone from the Continuum, it's hard to ignore how "human" they seem in every way. In fact, aside from their powers, they seem as human as you or me.

Let's say that humanity found a way to forecast its evolution, saw salamanders, and wanted to run the other way. What if it went about constructing a way to achieve a different end - something cooler and a lot more powerful? Introducing...... the Quantum Liberation Project.

Not all of humanity would be obligated to sign on, but for those who wanted to, they could embark on the Quantum journey that would change them forever. They would all be equal in power, in status, in abilities, free of common distinctions including names, just going with "Q."

The Quantum Liberation Project would also outgrow galactic treaties like the Temporal Accords, and would interact with time just as easily as a starship interacted with space, but with rules enforced by what would become known as the continuum.

This could be what Q/Quinn referred to as "the new era" in the VOY episode "Death Wish." He says a great deal in that episode to make one think that the Q were not always as they were known to the ST crews. In fact, in the early seasons of TNG, Q makes a number of startling statements about where humanity was heading.

To me, this explains Q's specific interest in humanity. Did the Ferengi ever undergo the kind of trial that was presented at Farpoint? Were the Klingons ever held to the standard that was set at Farpoint? Humanity seems to be held to a different standard, and if the Q are future humanity, that explains it.

 

[at Quark's]

The Q (what little we see of them) seem like a bunch of d*cks, mostly. I hope humanity can evolve into something better than that. Powerful, yes, but not many positive attributes beyond that. Or so it seems, at least.

 

[uniderth]

The Q (what little we see of them) seem like a bunch of d*cks, mostly..

Not only do they seem that way, but they could appear that way too.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

The Q (what little we see of them) seem like a bunch of d*cks, mostly. I hope humanity can evolve into something better than that. Powerful, yes, but not many positive attributes beyond that. Or so it seems, at least.

Q/Quinn wasn't. He was quite nice. But typically omnipotence (or something close to it) has an ill effect on character/values. That can be seen in pretty much all of Earth's dictators & monarchs over the centuries who had absolute authority. Q/Quinn also said, "As the Q have evolved, we've sacrificed many things along the way. Not just manners, but mortality, and a sense of purpose, and a desire for change, and a capacity to grow. Every loss is a new vulnerability, wouldn't you say?" Given that they "sacrificed" mortality and any sense of humility in the process of becoming what they became, I would still point to future humanity as being their origin.

 

[JasonJ]

I can buy it... it's as good a hypothesis as any I've yet to hear.

I remember a tv show, or made for tv movie from the 90s... it involved the "grey aliens" abducting people.. the twist was that the "greys" were humans, evolved from the future, who traveled back in time to collect some original DNA to correct a fertility/reproduction problem they had acquired as a result of their evolution... and hence, why they abducted modern humans.

Can't recall the title.. of course, I was also like 10 years old.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Oddly enough, that has eerie similarities with the little gray aliens in Stargate SG-1 (and Stargate Atlantis). They had been cloning themselves for so many centuries that their DNA was degrading from what it used to be, to the point of not being viable for much longer, so some of them experimented on using human DNA to revitalize their gene pool and be able to survive. I'm guessing that's not what you're talking about, though?

With Star Trek concepts like the Prime Directive and Temporal Accords, we're kind of conditioned to think that non-interference is always the best way to go, whether it has to do with time travel or whatever, but some other sci-fi doesn't hesitate to make time incursions to be the norm. From Quantum Leap to Interstellar, the idea of future humanity actively helping out previous generations is an interesting idea.

 

[Timo]

Regarding "direction of evolution", I don't see any of that in "Threshold". What Paris and later Janeway suffer from, as per the EMH, is a heightened tendency to adapt. But they don't aim at any sort of a distant goal. Paris is apparently initially adapting to be the perfect starship denizen, which is what evolution is all about: sorting out conflicts between self and environment. But when he and the Captain hit a swampy planet, their evolution takes another path and they become the perfect swamp dwellers.

The amphibians aren't the future of mankind, unless mankind chooses to live in a swamp. But what Paris was initially becoming may be the future of mankind, if mankind chooses to live aboard starships. But only in the case where mankind chooses to let itself evolve naturally, instead of fighting it tooth and nail like we currently do.

Of course, Q would tackle this from a different direction. We have every reason to think he knows how the future will unfold, including all the alternatives, and all the effects of his own meddling. He can always go to the future, any future, to have a look, after all.

But that Q would be interested in humans alone... I rather doubt that. He only chose to interact with three or fou random Starfleet representatives at a random point of time; if he did the same with the Ferengi or the Klingons, we'd be unlikely to learn of this. Especially if he didn't opt to look like John DeLancie to them, or call himself by that particular letter of the human alphabet.

Conversely, the fact that Q revealed himself to Picard, Sisko and Janeway all (and never mind Thaddeus Riker or the rest of the lot listed in "Death Wish") may rather be indication that he reveals himself to everybody, all the time. The compulsory exhibitionist would simply be something nobody wants to discuss with outsiders, considering.

Seeing a narrow human focus here is an option, certainly. It's just that there are others as well.

As for the putative project to ascend, the one bit I'd rule out would be equality. This just isn't in the human equation... Some would always be more omnipotent than others.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Regarding "direction of evolution", I don't see any of that in "Threshold". What Paris and later Janeway suffer from, as per the EMH, is a heightened tendency to adapt. But they don't aim at any sort of a distant goal. Paris is apparently initially adapting to be the perfect starship denizen, which is what evolution is all about: sorting out conflicts between self and environment. But when he and the Captain hit a swampy planet, their evolution takes another path and they become the perfect swamp dwellers.

Not sure how one pulls that from what the Doc said. What he did say is this:

EMH: The changes in his DNA are consistent with the evolutionary development of the human genotype observed over the past four million years. Increased brain capacity, the loss of vestigial organs.
TUVOK: Are you saying Lieutenant Paris is evolving?
EMH: That's my theory. The only difference between natural evolution and what happened to Mister Paris is that his changes took place over a twenty four hour period. Somehow, travelling at infinite velocity accelerated the natural human evolutionary process by millions of years. It's possible that Mister Paris represents a future stage in human development, although I can't say it's very attractive.

In any case, I can agree with the comparable "Animal Farm" idea of some being "more equal" than others. There are indications of hierarchy, but no individual Q is ever said to have greater powers than another, just some with underdeveloped/untapped powers like Amanda Rogers'.

As technology progresses, I have a feeling we'll be seeing much more about artificial ascension in sci-fi in general.

 

[JasonJ]

Oddly enough, that has eerie similarities with the little gray aliens in Stargate SG-1 (and Stargate Atlantis). They had been cloning themselves for so many centuries that their DNA was degrading from what it used to be, to the point of not being viable for much longer, so some of them experimented on using human DNA to revitalize their gene pool and be able to survive. I'm guessing that's not what you're talking about, though?

With Star Trek concepts like the Prime Directive and Temporal Accords, we're kind of conditioned to think that non-interference is always the best way to go, whether it has to do with time travel or whatever, but some other sci-fi doesn't hesitate to make time incursions to be the norm. From Quantum Leap to Interstellar, the idea of future humanity actively helping out previous generations is an interesting idea.

Right, I'm familiar with the SG-1 Asgard reproduction problem, I am referring to something separate, that came before that. It's kind of a grey-alien trope I suppose, but the show I am remembering was indeed not, Stargate.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

Right, I'm familiar with the SG-1 Asgard reproduction problem, I am referring to something separate, that came before that. It's kind of a grey-alien trope I suppose, but the show I am remembering was indeed not, Stargate.

Maybe SG-1 borrowed the idea from the show you're thinking of, especially if it's an older one. Ideas cross over like crazy in the sci-fi biz.