The purpose of Deanna Troi

[CobraCommander]

After watching this show many times, I have asked myself what purpose should a Betazoid psychiatrist have on a starship. In regards to Deanna, I believe that a psychiatrist had no business on the bridge of a starship. She was not qualified to be in a position to outrank officers like Data in a crisis situation. It felt rather Soviet-like with a political officer sensing the Captain's thoughts to make sure they were 'correct'. Another issue with Deanna was her willful use of impathy to read others thoughts. That can be considered a violation/ mind rape. She herself hated it when she was at the receiving end of a mind read. The good thing about B5 was that it brought up a different perspective on telepaths. It went into how telepaths had to restrict their telepathy to avoid absorbing the thoughts of others. They were also shunned because non-tels were afraid of getting read. In TNG, those issues seldom ever came up. I will admit that Voyager did visit that topic in its later seasons.
I remember the episode when the Ferengi were negotiating the rights to a wormhole and a Human/Betazed negotiator was using his skills to beat the competition. When his skills were discovered, Picard blasted him for using his telepathy for his advantage. The negotiator made Picard eat his words by pointing out Picard's own hypocrisy of using Deanna for his own gain by reading the minds of others. Cobra

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Another issue with Deanna was her willful use of impathy to read others thoughts. That can be considered a violation/ mind rape.

Most of the time, she could only sense emotions. The only people whose thoughts she could flat-out read were her mother and Riker, and that was because they were especially close to her.

As for the purpose of Deanna as a character, I've always thought it was because Gene Roddenberry was getting into so much psychobabble that he thought the show needed one. (Remember, this is the same man who once suggested that Jim Kirk's mother had a "love instructor." ) If TNG was being made today, it wouldn't.

 

[SpyOne]

After watching this show many times, I have asked myself what purpose should a Betazoid psychiatrist have on a starship. In regards to Deanna, I believe that a psychiatrist had no business on the bridge of a starship. She was not qualified to be in a position to outrank officers like Data in a crisis situation.

Well, just being on the bridge didn't put her in a position to outrank Data. In fact, even when she outranked Data, his status as Second Officer trumps her rank. The only time we saw command devolve to Troi was when the only conscious people on the Bridge were Trio, Ensign Ro, and Chief O'Brien.
She is on the bridge as an advisor to the captain. Although she often advised him of the mental state of an enemy, her original concieved role (and we did see her do this a few times) was to advise the Captain on the mental state of the crew.

The good thing about B5 was that it brought up a different perspective on telepaths. It went into how telepaths had to restrict their telepathy to avoid absorbing the thoughts of others.

MIRANDA: On Vulcan, I learned to do things impossible to learn anywhere else.
KIRK: To read minds?
MIRANDA: How not to read them, Captain.
KIRK: I don't understand.
SPOCK: Doctor Jones was born a telepath, Captain.
KIRK: Oh.
MIRANDA: Vulcan was necessary to my sanity.
SPOCK: What most humans generally find impossible to understand is the need to shut out the bedlam of other people's thoughts and emotions.

One might suggest that most Federation citizens lack of fear of telepaths was due to more experience with them. A more tolerant view, if you will.
Most of the telepaths we've seen on Star Trek consider it rude to read someone else's thoughts without permission, and most people seemed to feel that was guarantee enough. That's very much how Voyager handled it: more "primitive" cultures feared telepaths, but the crew just takes Tuvok's word that he won't try to read their minds without permission.
I should note that:
Yes, Lwaxana Troi often suggested that she was reading the thoughts of others. She was totally okay with seeming rude, knowing that she was only kidding. She would suggest that Picard was thinking some lascivious thing about her, and both she and Picard knew that wasn't true, so she wasn't actually violating a taboo, it merely looked that way to outsiders. And she got a bit of a kick out of that.
My own mother does similar things regularly (although without telepathy).

I remember a SF novel I read where the central character dated a telepath. When they became intimate, she explained that, like B5 and trek, telepathy training wasn't so much about learning how to read thoughts as how not to, how to shut them out. And, she explained, that was harder when the other person was thinking about you. And also harder when you were in physical contact.
The result was that, when they were having sex, she would keep up a running babble of everything she was thinking, because she was aware of everything he was thinking, and wanted to keep things fair.

 

[Solarbaby]

Even if Troi had no teleptahy what was her purpose on the bridge? She was the counsellor for the entire ship. So why wasn't she counselling people? She was always on the bridge with her boobs practically bursting out the bunny suit.

Apparently she was an expert in aliens and first contact but it rarely showed. And usually what info she gave the captain about aliens wwas what she had read up. So the Captain could have done it himself and called himself an alien expert.

Troi is my favourite character out the whole of the franchises but she was badly written. She didn't know what a warp core breach was in season 1 but shes a Lt. Commander. I think Marina played her very well with what she had to work with.

I think she was there to divert people's attentions from their jobs with her breasts. She was a constant test to see who was good at keeping their mind on the mission. Oh and to point out the obvious whenever she had the bunny suit. And to look smart when she finally got into a uniform.

 

[indolover]

Marina Sirtis is hot, so seeing Troi on the bridge was a plus in that sense lol.

But I think the addition of a counsellor makes sense, for obvious reasons. However, I don't understand why a counsellor would be a senior officer in her own right, and not a sub-ordinate under the Chief Medical Officer. Troi's role in a sense was medical. It's similar to how Chief O'Brien was the transporter chief, but was under La Forge's command, since transporters were obviously a technical system.

I think she was on the bridge largely since her empathy was an advantage to Picard. Kirk, Sisko, Janeway or Archer never had anybody on their left hand side on the bridge saying "Captain, I believe he's lying. We shouldn't trust him."

 

[tharpdevenport]

At couple times at least, it was brought up in early seasons that it's appearently unusual for a Federation ship to have families.

When you have parents and kids and near-death experiences on a monthly basis, and rarely ever get to leave the ship, one might find the use of a counselor quite helpful. What's unusual is that there is only one on a ship with over a thousand people


Also, all previous Enterprises have been in service during times of war, so this essentially makes the Enterprise D the first Enterprise to be commishioned and uses during a peace period. Ad on top of that that it is the flag ship of the Federation ... maybe having a counselor on the Bridge to help with negotiations and first contact with another species, helpful and maybe even common.

And maybe, just maybe, Picard knew having a telepathic counselor by his side wouldn't be such a bad idea. Throughout the seven seasons, we learned he had reasons for picking Yar, Riker, Geordi, I think O'Brian, Ro ... surely he had his reasons for picking and utilizing Troi.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Even if Troi had no teleptahy what was her purpose on the bridge? She was always on the bridge with her boobs practically bursting out the bunny suit.

You just answered your own question.

I can't remember who it was who said that the one thing that would probably date TNG as an 80s show was having a therapist on the bridge right there next to the captain.

When you have parents and kids and near-death experiences on a monthly basis

A weekly basis, actually. Except during the summer, when, oddly enough, nothing bad would ever happen to the crew for months at a time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NARzrbp8tW8

 

[scotpens]

I can't remember who it was who said that the one thing that would probably date TNG as an 80s show was having a therapist on the bridge right there next to the captain.

Exactly. The Deanna Troi character is just so ’80s. Remember, this was the decade that brought us thirtysomething, that circle-jerk about whining, self-indulgent yuppies.

 

[tau136]

However, I don't understand why a counsellor would be a senior officer in her own right, and not a sub-ordinate under the Chief Medical Officer. Troi's role in a sense was medical. It's similar to how Chief O'Brien was the transporter chief, but was under La Forge's command, since transporters were obviously a technical system.

Her role seems more ambiguous the more you analyse it. If she was regular personnel you'd expect her to be in uniform, medical uniform at that. She'd be under the aegis and career-line of medics, whether subsumed under the Doctor or as a distinct psychological department. From that angle she wouldn't be on the bridge, ranked as she was or able to train for Captaincy. Run all these options for Bones, Bashir, et al and the double-think shows up.

 

[jwb]

Yes, it was a very 80s thing to have the counselor on board and sitting on the bridge. I think they got better at writing for her and making her a more well rounded character in the later seasons.

-jwb-
jwbraun.com

 

[maneth]

We mostly see the bridge crew when they're about to meet aliens. Sometimes Troi is in her office so obviously she does counsel people aboard ship, both Starfleet and civilian.

However, it would make more sense to have her stay in her quarters/office most of the time, and getting paged "Counselor Troi report to the bridge" whenever they were about to make contact with possibly hostile aliens. If necessary, she could be transported to the ready room in a second, to appear a few moments later on the bridge.

 

[JarodRussell]

Another issue with Deanna was her willful use of impathy to read others thoughts. That can be considered a violation/ mind rape.

That is utter nonsense. Telepaths "hear"/Empath "feel" things automatically, just like we hear, see, smell and taste. That has nothing to do with rape. It could be voyerism to a certain degree.

Would you say that someone who can read body language and facial expression (to tell that you are lying or uncomfortable or hiding something, etc...) is RAPING you? And Troi does only a little more, since she can truly sense if people are angry or lying.

In the fictional world of Trek, there is Betazed, a whole world full of telepaths. They grow up with people being able to hear their thoughts. It's natural to them.

I find it funny how people interpret rape into everything related to telepathy.

 

[tharpdevenport]

And we learn that Betazoids are taught early on how to handle and weed out random thoughts, and control their abilities.

Reading someone's thoughts without their knowledge, is like reading someone's diary without their knowledge, yet we don't call the diary reading "rape", now do we?

 

[JarodRussell]

And we learn that Betazoids are taught early on how to handle and weed out random thoughts, and control their abilities.

Reading someone's thoughts without their knowledge, is like reading someone's diary without their knowledge, yet we don't call the diary reading "rape", now do we?

Or (unintentionally) overhearing a private conversation.

 

[JRS]

I like Troi..and Marina Sirtis
I know the character was sometime poorly written..but I found her interesting nontheless.
And its clear that she was the sexy woman of the show but I have difficulties talking anything negative about that either, because I think she is very beautiful
Its funny though, that the biggest counseling jobs that Troi had to do, happened mostly offscreen(there was Barcley, though)
I mean we never really saw Troi counceling Picard, after the Borg incident or after the "four lights" stuff (even though it was quite clear that Troi helped Picard to heal his mental wounds on both occasions) and she did also the same with La Forge, when he was captured by the Romulans

 

[maneth]

Reading someone's diary may not be rape but it's certainly a violation of privacy, just like reading someone's mind without their consent would be.

 

[Cepstrum]

I don't understand why Picard didn't have a full Betazoid on the bridge. Having a telepathic adviser would be a tremendous advantage.

And she wasn't a psychiatrist, just a psychologist/therapist. It would have made more sense if she were a psychiatrist, for then she could fulfill the triple role of adviser, therapist, and specialist physician. Given all the strange mind-altering encounters the crew experienced, I'd think a psychiatrist would be quite a bit more helpful in dealing with those issues than a non-specialist doctor (Crusher).

 

[Praxius]

After watching this show many times, I have asked myself what purpose should a Betazoid psychiatrist have on a starship. In regards to Deanna, I believe that a psychiatrist had no business on the bridge of a starship. She was not qualified to be in a position to outrank officers like Data in a crisis situation.

She originally had the rank of Lt. Commander and later on in the show, she decided to take the proper tests to gain her Commander/Bridge Officer Command qualifications. There were other officers in many other areas of the ship, such as science officers, engineers, medical officers, whom all had Lt. Commander or higher ranks..... but just because they have the rank, doesn't mean they are qualified in taking command of the ship.

However in the episode "Disaster" by default, she was the higher ranked officer, thus, by protocol, she would have to assume command, which she did.

In regards to a psychiatrist not allowed on the bridge, I disagree because I am pretty sure Picard wanted her there... and if the captain of the starship wants someone on his or her bridge because he or she thinks they can benefit or otherwise have an advantage in a situation, then who are any of us to argue?

When she did eventually pass her command exams and such, she officially had every right to be on the bridge and very well could take over command during an emergency.

It felt rather Soviet-like with a political officer sensing the Captain's thoughts to make sure they were 'correct'.

She wasn't there to tell people what they should or shouldn't do based on her own opinion of the matter, she didn't have such authority. Also, she couldn't sense anybody's thoughts.... only their emotions. Her situation was unique based on the fact that Picard wanted her there.... you don't see counselors on the bridge of every starship do you? If Picard wanted her off the bridge, it would have been done.

Another issue with Deanna was her willful use of impathy to read others thoughts.

That's what her species does and comes to them as fluent as us blinking. If you don't like what they do, then when you get your own starship command, you can choose to have no Betazoids on your ship if you so wish..... but that'd be prejudice.

That can be considered a violation/ mind rape. She herself hated it when she was at the receiving end of a mind read.

Once again, you're completely wrong.... sensing someone's thoughts as they come to you is one thing.... having someone shove their mind inside your own to force you to have visions or voices you don't want in your head is a totally different thing.

What she was capable of doing isn't much different then us looking at someone's facial expressions to determine someone's mood.... the only remote difference is she could determine someone's mood even if that faked their facial expressions. If you don't like what she could do, then you obviously don't like people in your everyday life determining your mood by looking at your facial expressions.... if that is the case, may I recommend you cover your face with a Burqa or Halloween mask?

The good thing about B5 was that it brought up a different perspective on telepaths. It went into how telepaths had to restrict their telepathy to avoid absorbing the thoughts of others. They were also shunned because non-tels were afraid of getting read. In TNG, those issues seldom ever came up. I will admit that Voyager did visit that topic in its later seasons.

That just sounds to me like someone with a mental or physical handicap having issues with others being able to do what they can't and thus forcing everybody to live like them.

ie: let's say I was born without arms but you still have yours, you can draw, write, build things, etc.... but because you have an advantage over me, should I have the right to argue and complain that you should restrict your life and who you are to suit my own hang ups?

No.

Hypothetically speaking, people born telepathic should have every right to use their abilities to their full potential as they see fit, considering it is a part of who they are. To restrict them because of others being uncomfortable isn't much different then our own history where religions would restrict or otherwise oppress people who brought out differing ideas or concepts.... or they lived their lives in a different way that made them "Afraid"

While this may make the over-sensitive comfortable in keeping things as they see fit, it only restricts the progress and development of society and the individual themselves..... all because some people don't understand something and are too scared to take the time to understand.

I remember the episode when the Ferengi were negotiating the rights to a wormhole and a Human/Betazed negotiator was using his skills to beat the competition. When his skills were discovered, Picard blasted him for using his telepathy for his advantage. The negotiator made Picard eat his words by pointing out Picard's own hypocrisy of using Deanna for his own gain by reading the minds of others. Cobra

Indeed.... however I personally had no issue with him being telepathic and using it to his advantage, the only thing I didn't like was how he avoided telling anybody about it and trying to act like something he wasn't.... which seems to be your entire argument (ie: restricting their abilities and/or trying to keep them hidden from everybody else to make them comfortable.)

He's a perfect example of what could happen if one followed your view. Others being afraid of what he can do and thus forcing them to abide by laws or other restrictions to make sure they don't use what they were born with, will only create more people like him who have these abilities, but refuse to tell anybody, thus never having to worry about breaking any laws or restrictions, because nobody would know he had them, thus be more alienated by the society around him and thus using his abilities to his own advantage rather then everybody elses.

Afterall, If I was in a similar situation, I know I wouldn't expose my abilities because of such restrictions and laws, I would feel like society is against me and my kind and I'd probably end up using my abilities to further excel my own goals and the goals of those like me.

A perfect example of what happens with such views as your own would be to watch the X-Men movies.

Oppress those whom you feel are better then you, and you will only turn those people against you.... which is what Oppression has always done....

Oppression never solves anything.

Added:

Also, I forgot to add that considering the size of the ship, the total amount of crew members & families on the ship and the fact that the ship was designated for space exploration and being away from home for long periods of time, having a ship's councilor made pretty good sense to me.

 

[clz]

... maybe having a counselor on the Bridge to help with negotiations and first contact with another species, helpful and maybe even common.

I agree. I always thought that she was useful for diplomatic meetings, though I never really understood her being part of the bridge crew. That was likely an attempt to make the cast more diverse, but I don't think that she took anything away from the show.

Even if Troi had no teleptahy what was her purpose on the bridge? She was the counsellor for the entire ship. So why wasn't she counselling people? She was always on the bridge with her boobs practically bursting out the bunny suit.

Her outfit was conservative comparted to TOS women uniforms. Besides, every show needs some sex appeal. At least it wasn't as blatant "hey look I have boobs" as Seven of Nine.

Also, you can't assume that every free moment was spent on the bridge and she was often shown counciling many of the crew.

 

[Shatnertage]

To expand on Praxius's last point, I think it makes sense--in theory--to have a counselor on the ship, just like it makes sense to have a full-time hair stylist. If the Enterprise really has 1,000 people on it, and is going to be away from earth for as long as ten years (I recall that being the original concept), dealing with all sorts of stressful situations, it would be good to have someone on board who could help people through their problems.

Even if only 5% of the people on board needed the counselor's time in any given week, she (or he) would have 50 patients to see--a pretty big workload. So actually, there should be more than one.

Of course, the way the character was actually written wasn't terribly useful much of the time--just sensing great pain and whatnot--but within the rules that the show set up, the position itself made sense.