Spoilers The Good Place Season 4
- Thread starter Mojochi
- Start date
Good questions. And along with that, will they restore Simone's memories from her time on Earth with Team Cockroach?
Best episode of the season and one of the best of the whole series.
The b-plot with Team Cockroach giving each other the funerals they wanted was very sweet and revealing about each of them (we finally learn something about Jason's mom). I loved Jason's attempt to give Janet a funeral and Janet's reasoning why she didn't need one.
However, the crutch of this whole episode was the Judge's ruling. The scores came out about where we all expected (although I am a little surprised Simone's was as high as it was considering...) and then Michael was able to convince the Judge that Brent's literally last-second change of heart was proof that all humans have the potential to become better. Unfortunately, the Judge's decision lead to her conclusion that the Earth needed to be rebooted. Oops?
But hooray for Janet! And not just our Janet, but also Bad Janet who Michael managed to convince to see the light because of his manifesto. And then all of the Janets!
...and now the fate of the human race lies with one Sengali ethics professor who became seriously ripped because of supposedly anxiety-reducing push-ups! Like Eleanor, I have faith!
I'm sure it was just me, but the moment the Judge decided that she needed to reboot the Earth and all that stood between her and human destruction was Team Cockroach reminded me of one of my childhood favorite books: My Teacher Flunked the Planet by Bruce Coville (and partially because of its cover).
The b-plot with Team Cockroach giving each other the funerals they wanted was very sweet and revealing about each of them (we finally learn something about Jason's mom). I loved Jason's attempt to give Janet a funeral and Janet's reasoning why she didn't need one.
However, the crutch of this whole episode was the Judge's ruling. The scores came out about where we all expected (although I am a little surprised Simone's was as high as it was considering...) and then Michael was able to convince the Judge that Brent's literally last-second change of heart was proof that all humans have the potential to become better. Unfortunately, the Judge's decision lead to her conclusion that the Earth needed to be rebooted. Oops?
But hooray for Janet! And not just our Janet, but also Bad Janet who Michael managed to convince to see the light because of his manifesto. And then all of the Janets!
...and now the fate of the human race lies with one Sengali ethics professor who became seriously ripped because of supposedly anxiety-reducing push-ups! Like Eleanor, I have faith!
I'm sure it was just me, but the moment the Judge decided that she needed to reboot the Earth and all that stood between her and human destruction was Team Cockroach reminded me of one of my childhood favorite books: My Teacher Flunked the Planet by Bruce Coville (and partially because of its cover).
I really loved it when all the Janets came out to stop the judge. That was a very cool moment. It was also nice to see that the writers did not forget about Michael giving Bad Janet the book in a previous episode and found a way to make it pay off in a nice way.
I also like that Chidi would redesign the point system. As Eleanor points out, his knowledge and passion of ethical philosophy makes him the perfect person to design a better point system. It really does feel like it would be his destiny or life's purpose.
Plus, it will be fascinating to see what Chidi comes up with considering how indecisive and conflicted he's often been. What system of ethics will he go with?
This episode made the other episodes in season 4 worth it. We're finally back into the big picture and last night was actually the first time I started to feel like we're getting closer to the end of the series. I loved the funerals, especially Jasons with all the Jacksonville Jaguars stuff. It was nice to get a pay off to what I felt was the weakest episode of the season so far with Bad Janet and the book.
The "erase Earth" button is being kept by a judge who appears to place zero value on sentient life. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Personally, I think it will be Eleanor who actually figures out a new system (after discussing some of Chidi's ideas). It will probably involve some version of Purgatory in which humans who become better are tasked with training/teaching humans who have not yet become better.
Personally, I think it will be Eleanor who actually figures out a new system (after discussing some of Chidi's ideas). It will probably involve some version of Purgatory in which humans who become better are tasked with training/teaching humans who have not yet become better.
Hey another Bruce Coville fan! I loved his stuff when I was a kid, especially the My Teacher series, and the Rod Albright/Aliens Ate My Homework books.
This was the best episode of the season yet.
Loved the funerals, that was a nice way to see how much the characters have really come to care about each other.
The Judge wanting to reboot the Earth was a big surprise, that was definitely not how I expected things to play out.
Bad Janet and the other Janets all showing up to help out was a great moment.
The Good Place people really are kind of worthless, aren't they?
Chidi being the one to design the new point system really does feel like a perfect job for him.
I think that all newly-dead humans will be made to take a test similar to what our Cockroaches have been doing to prove whether they can improve or not. Everyone CAN improve, but not everyone DOES, as the experiment proves
I can't imagine anything Chidi or Eleanor can come up with would include a version of hell to which un-improvable souls are damned for eternity, so the final product will not be some iteration of a good or bad place. Still, I've always liked the version of the afterlife presented in the underrated film "Defending Your Life" with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep. I can see something like that coming to fruition here.
Mark
I can't imagine anything Chidi or Eleanor can come up with would include a version of hell to which un-improvable souls are damned for eternity, so the final product will not be some iteration of a good or bad place. Still, I've always liked the version of the afterlife presented in the underrated film "Defending Your Life" with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep. I can see something like that coming to fruition here.
Mark
As per The Good Place: The Podcast (from episode co-writer Josh Siegal), the five stages of grief in Jacksonville:
1. Graffitiing a Red Lobster
2. ATV race
3. Tattoo fight
4. Prank call the morgue
5. Graffitiing the morgue
1. Graffitiing a Red Lobster
2. ATV race
3. Tattoo fight
4. Prank call the morgue
5. Graffitiing the morgue
I'm glad I'm not the only fan! I only ever read the My Teacher series but, boy, I loved the hell out of those books (especially the last two) when I was a kid.
Yeah. They could have a 3 tier system. Folks with super high scores go straight to the Good Place. People with super low scores go straight to the Bad Place and people with somewhat bad scores or somewhat good good scores go to the Medium Place where if they get better, they can graduate to the Good Place or downgrade to the Bad Place if they get worse.
No, that's definitely not going to happen, that's just the existing system with an added extra evaluation period for some people and it completely ignores the point the show made, that everyone can improve and it's impossible to tell what will happen tomorrow, that was the entire point of Brent's character, he sucked for the entire year of the experiment and in the last ten seconds came this close to turning it around and improving.
It's impossible to prove without a doubt that someone belongs in the bad place, therefore no one should be send to the bad place. The point system and the good place/bad place distinction is inherently flawed and will probably be abolished completely to be replaced with environments that actively encourage people to improve.
Wow. Totally different direction than I thought it would go. That's awesome.
What IS a fair system? We could think together and come up with something that makes sense in the world of the show. But what do real humans actually deserve, and how could any one of us be even modestly qualified to make that decision?
The best I can come up with, is some sort of sliding scale that's like a perpetual test. Basically your sentence in the afterlife is to be treated forever the way you would treat people in their position. If you improve in the afterlife, then people start treating you better.
Of course, if it was instant, it'd be too obvious what was happening and people's motives would be corrupted. So maybe, humans aren't told what the rules are, they are told their afterlife is based on how they behaved on Earth, but the score is actually left open, and there's a 100 year lag between score going up and treatment going up. So people who improved would eventually have their afterlives improve, but they'd still have to pay for their crimes on Earth like they would in Purgatory, and they wouldn't realize they had a chance to improve until it happened.
@Takeru
I agree that's the point of the show, but do you think there are crimes in the real world that you have to pay for even if you got better? Like if Hitler spent 1000 years in the afterlife and realized that everybody is equal and deserves a chance to flourish, would he get into the Good Place?
And how do you handle, say, people with disabilities who don't have the mental capacity to make either good or evil decisions?
Then there's the case of people who did evil things because they lacked the neural structures to process empathy, do they have to pay for their murders, or do they maybe get that neural structure magically restored so we see how they would behave if they had the ability to feel empathy?
What IS a fair system? We could think together and come up with something that makes sense in the world of the show. But what do real humans actually deserve, and how could any one of us be even modestly qualified to make that decision?
The best I can come up with, is some sort of sliding scale that's like a perpetual test. Basically your sentence in the afterlife is to be treated forever the way you would treat people in their position. If you improve in the afterlife, then people start treating you better.
Of course, if it was instant, it'd be too obvious what was happening and people's motives would be corrupted. So maybe, humans aren't told what the rules are, they are told their afterlife is based on how they behaved on Earth, but the score is actually left open, and there's a 100 year lag between score going up and treatment going up. So people who improved would eventually have their afterlives improve, but they'd still have to pay for their crimes on Earth like they would in Purgatory, and they wouldn't realize they had a chance to improve until it happened.
@Takeru
I agree that's the point of the show, but do you think there are crimes in the real world that you have to pay for even if you got better? Like if Hitler spent 1000 years in the afterlife and realized that everybody is equal and deserves a chance to flourish, would he get into the Good Place?
And how do you handle, say, people with disabilities who don't have the mental capacity to make either good or evil decisions?
Then there's the case of people who did evil things because they lacked the neural structures to process empathy, do they have to pay for their murders, or do they maybe get that neural structure magically restored so we see how they would behave if they had the ability to feel empathy?
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Saw Defending Life on one of the first dates I had with my wife.
I like the sliding-scale idea.
I wonder how/if the solution will take children and infants into account.
Also, the latest episode confirms there is no sentient life bar Humans in that universe. I would’ve have thought there are extraterrestrial species with their own dedicated afterlives, but the point system exists since the dawn of the universe and applies only to Earth, which itself is only 5bn years old.
I wonder how/if the solution will take children and infants into account.
Also, the latest episode confirms there is no sentient life bar Humans in that universe. I would’ve have thought there are extraterrestrial species with their own dedicated afterlives, but the point system exists since the dawn of the universe and applies only to Earth, which itself is only 5bn years old.
That brings up a good point. Are demons currently torturing babies in the Bad Place?
Not necessarily. Maybe this afterlife only applies to Earth and there are others for other worlds, not unlike what's suggested in Miracle Workers where God (Steve Buscemi) is only in charge of Earth but there are other planets with other gods.
One thing about the show that’s never quite jived is how Mindy St Clair escaped the Bad Place.
Based on third season information, even if she got credit for those things, it wouldn’t be enough. And if it was, the GP nerds would have taken centuries to say anything.
Based on third season information, even if she got credit for those things, it wouldn’t be enough. And if it was, the GP nerds would have taken centuries to say anything.
"There is no 'answer.' But Eleanor is the answer."
What a beautiful episode for Chidi. I was a little worried we were going to a long recap of everything we already knew and saw, but I was thankfully wrong. Not only did we new scenes of the past (including a hilarious "soul mate" for Chidi during the 800-year period), but we also finally meet Chidi's parents and how he got into philosophy in the first place. Carefully placed in the long recap of Chidi's very long existence is a nice little arc about Chidi's ultimate goal of always finding the answer if you looked hard enough, which accumulated to the little note he left with Janet.
And now I'm crying. Happy tears.
Time to save the universe, Team Cockroach!
What a beautiful episode for Chidi. I was a little worried we were going to a long recap of everything we already knew and saw, but I was thankfully wrong. Not only did we new scenes of the past (including a hilarious "soul mate" for Chidi during the 800-year period), but we also finally meet Chidi's parents and how he got into philosophy in the first place. Carefully placed in the long recap of Chidi's very long existence is a nice little arc about Chidi's ultimate goal of always finding the answer if you looked hard enough, which accumulated to the little note he left with Janet.
And now I'm crying. Happy tears.
Time to save the universe, Team Cockroach!
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