The Flash - Season 1

[Mach5]

You do realise that going back and saving Nora would have been restoring the original timeline, right?

Not exactly. The original timeline didn't involve two... Three speedsters from the future raising hell in the house and in the streets. Them just showing up there/then could have affected the timeline considerably.

The only way to genuinely restore the original timeline would be to stop Thawne from time travelling in the first place.

 

[FreezeC77]

By the way, wouldn't a vasectomy have worked just as well in ending the Thawne line? Vasectomies are reversible? Well that would just mean that there would be a temporal cold war fought on Eddies Junk by Atom sized Chrononauts as his vasectomy is reversed and rereversed and rerereversed and so on, by Time Travellers from several sides of history.

Never trust someone from the future, their agenda can and probably will incorporate acceptable losses that could include you, everyone you know and half the fricking planet.

Oh.

The end of Wicked (Musical based on the Wizard of Oz), the Witch faked her death by bucket of Water, because her opponent was an 8 year old from 1900, who'd fall for such a bullshit hornswoggle like "my only weakness is water" because she was 8.

Did Wells fake his death?

Wells had Eddie locked up for days. How long does it take to brainwash a decent bloke into thinking that Looper is a seamless, well thought out movie with no plot holes than that the Wicked Witch of the West can can fly through a rain soaked twister but be felled by a bucket of water?

I never saw Wicked... so the wicked witch doing that in Once Upon A Time was copying the musical.

Sureba vasectomy would have worked... but it was pretty immediate and quick decision he made to save Barry and stop the reverse flash.

He could have shot his junk... but I wouLD prob shoot myself in the heart before being able to eunuch myself intentionally.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So do you further want to assume that Zelina was having a roll in the hay with Scarecrow like Elphaba was?

There are a couple cams of Wicked hanging around the internet that are not unwatchable, or 90 dollars for a matinee?

 

[CorporalClegg]

The problem isn't just with the literal physical destruction of the world. The thing is, by going back and saving his mother, Barry was ending the make-up of the world as everyone knew it.

It's impossible to know what the magnitude of change would be. It certainly wouldn't be just a matter of everything is the same except Nora is alive and Henry isn't jail and everything else is the same. And I doubt it a matter of Edith Keeler syndrome or like The Flashpoint Paradox, but the ultimate effect on peoples' lives is more than large enough that Barry has no business playing God like that.

You do realise that going back and saving Nora would have been restoring the original timeline, right? Nora was alive in Barry's original timeline, before Eobard changed everything. Eobard is the one who played god when he went back in time and tried to erase Barry by killing him as a child, and then ended up killing Nora instead. That created a divergent timeline where everything we've seen in the show occurred. They even implied that Barry became the Flash earlier in this timeline because of Eobard's actions.

This was the Yesterday's Enterprise dilemma all over again, and Barry made the same decision Picard did.

Two wrongs and all that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Picard was trying to save the Federation from falling to the Klingons, and probably half a trillion humans from being eaten during the course of their victory.

Barry was golden.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

5 pages and no one has mentioned my fav line of the night!

Ronnie is arguing with Professor Stein and Stein responds, "Lets not argue on OUR wedding day."

I also thought it was sweet when Barry said goodbye to Joe and he called him "Dad".

Does that make any relationship with Iris incestuous?

I liked how the guy in prison for the murder of his wife, the mother of his only child, the man with the most to gain from this ill conceived plan was the only one pushing Barry NOT to do this.

I predict in season 2's premiere Barry has at least one "I told you so" coming his way.

 

[Christopher]

I also thought it was sweet when Barry said goodbye to Joe and he called him "Dad".

Does that make any relationship with Iris incestuous?

Strictly speaking, no, since they're not biologically related. It's a bit weird, though.

But not unprecedented even within the realm of superhero television. Barry and Iris's situation is startlingly similar to that of Steve Austin and Jaime Sommers (the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman). Jaime was introduced as Steve's love interest, but once she got her own spinoff, it was established that her parents had been killed in a car crash when she was 16, whereupon Steve's mother Helen and father-in-law Jim Elgin became Jaime's legal guardians, and she came to think of them as her mother and father even though she was also romantically involved with (and almost married) Steve. In fact, they played a bigger role as her "parents" in her show than they ever did in 6M$M. And Jim and Helen were as eager to see their biological and adopted children get hitched as Joe is to see Barry and Iris get together.

I liked how the guy in prison for the murder of his wife, the mother of his only child, the man with the most to gain from this ill conceived plan was the only one pushing Barry NOT to do this.

That's parenthood for you. You're supposed to sacrifice for your kid, not the other way around.

 

[mswood]

Love this show, but god it's so stupid at times.

Why for example is barry's dadd still in prison? First they already have plenty of witnesses to the match the events barry the boy described. They have verifiable scientific proof that two people, including an older Barry were actually in that home, not just barry's father.

And they have a DA and a police chief who are on working terms with the Flash, thus being willing to except that he was a witness to his clear his father.

They have a detective and a scientist who discover the forensic evidence that would clear him.

The fact that no one has even tried is stupid on a level that is really hard to explain....

i can live with time travel effects as long as they are consistent within this fictional universe, but i can't abide lazy as hell writing, that is utter ignored.

i still love the show, but seriously want to beat the writers over the head.

Then of course we are told that there is a chance for a singularity to form that would destroy the earth. They could have not known of that possibility and still had the same level of decision of if it's worth the risk to change time, just so one man can save his family. There was no need for that thought to be brought up, and they still could have had that turn out to be an unknown consequence. But no lets be lazy.

 

[DWF]

Love this show, but god it's so stupid at times.

Why for example is barry's dadd still in prison? First they already have plenty of witnesses to the match the events barry the boy described. They have verifiable scientific proof that two people, including an older Barry were actually in that home, not just barry's father.

And they have a DA and a police chief who are on working terms with the Flash, thus being willing to except that he was a witness to his clear his father.

They have a detective and a scientist who discover the forensic evidence that would clear him.

The fact that no one has even tried is stupid on a level that is really hard to explain....

i can live with time travel effects as long as they are consistent within this fictional universe, but i can't abide lazy as hell writing, that is utter ignored.

i still love the show, but seriously want to beat the writers over the head.

Then of course we are told that there is a chance for a singularity to form that would destroy the earth. They could have not known of that possibility and still had the same level of decision of if it's worth the risk to change time, just so one man can save his family. There was no need for that thought to be brought up, and they still could have had that turn out to be an unknown consequence. But no lets be lazy.

While I agree the crime scene was badly handled, it'd be pretty hard to prove that a super powered man from the future who there's no evidence that he even existed killed Nora.

 

[theenglish]

Wow, nice finale--I enjoyed it so much I'm willing to forget the minor problems with it.

My guess is that the resolution will involve more time travel to restore the mistakes at the end. I can't imagine this show is going to allow the MoS level of destruction. Do we know if the actor who plays Eddie will be coming back?

 

[Gryffindorian]

I didn't get the Hawkgirl reference until I googled it. The nods to Rip Hunter and Jay Garrick were more conspicuous.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

producer interviews:

The Flash boss on finale's shocking departure

'The Flash' EP on "Heartbreaking" Finale Death, Season 2 Speedsters and Villains

 

[FPAlpha]

It's awesome that they will bring back Cavanaugh because i like the actor very much from previous roles.

I guess since the show will begin time and dimension hopping next season it's easy to bring Dr. Wells from a different timeline to the main timeline and establish him there (and probablyable to walk)

 

[sojourner]

It's too bad Eddie's off the show tho. Hope we get to see him in a new and interesting show in the fall. Great actor.

 

[JoeZhang]

It's too bad Eddie's off the show tho. Hope we get to see him in a new and interesting show in the fall. Great actor.

Although he's not a regular, I bet he will be back - I don't think that reference to Cobalt in the episode was that random.... that and being sucked into a hole in time and space...

 

[Servo]

The problem isn't just with the literal physical destruction of the world. The thing is, by going back and saving his mother, Barry was ending the make-up of the world as everyone knew it.

It's impossible to know what the magnitude of change would be. It certainly wouldn't be just a matter of everything is the same except Nora is alive and Henry isn't jail and everything else is the same. And I doubt it a matter of Edith Keeler syndrome or like The Flashpoint Paradox, but the ultimate effect on peoples' lives is more than large enough that Barry has no business playing God like that.

You do realise that going back and saving Nora would have been restoring the original timeline, right? Nora was alive in Barry's original timeline, before Eobard changed everything. Eobard is the one who played god when he went back in time and tried to erase Barry by killing him as a child, and then ended up killing Nora instead. That created a divergent timeline where everything we've seen in the show occurred. They even implied that Barry became the Flash earlier in this timeline because of Eobard's actions.

This was the Yesterday's Enterprise dilemma all over again, and Barry made the same decision Picard did.

Two wrongs and all that.

That's a total cop-out. By that logic Marty McFly should not have restored the timeline after Biff stole the Almanac, because "two wrongs and all that".

Picard was trying to save the Federation from falling to the Klingons, and probably half a trillion humans from being eaten during the course of their victory.

Barry was golden.

How exactly was Barry golden? His mother is dead, his father is in jail, and the woman he loves who was supposed to be his wife is actually in love with someone else. Pretty far from golden right there, especially since none of that was supposed to happen, and only did because his arch enemy went back in time to alter things for personal gain.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If Eddie's soul was sucked into the singularity... Who owns Space Ghost at the moment?

How exactly was Barry golden? His mother is dead, his father is in jail, and the woman he loves who was supposed to be his wife is actually in love with someone else. Pretty far from golden right there, especially since none of that was supposed to happen, and only did because his arch enemy went back in time to alter things for personal gain.

His father liked being in jail. An institutional Man? Or he had no interest in being separated from his boyfriend? Daddy said he was good. Hank is not a problem.

Mum has been dead for 12 years. Sad but again, Barry is good with that.

Barry has no claim to Iris, and that news paper from the future says that he's going to get there eventually, so there's no reason to rudely temporally cock-block Eddie.

The Flash's arch villain thinks of him as a son and loves him.

Meanwhile the city has not been destroyed by a tidal wave, and the planet has not been destroyed by an unstable abused singularity.

My standard for golden is pretty low.

A nonreduction of stellar bodies in our Solar System.

Besides, how time travel should work, is that when he returns to the present it will be wrong and he will have the old memories form the original time line and be completely alien to the new timeline... OR he will vanish, like Thawne did, so a different Barry will grown up in a divergent timeline having no fricking idea about the sacrifice our suicidal Barry made.

If Barry vanishes in the past, that means that his wormhole isn't there either, which is how Wells got stranded in the first place, so the wormhole cannot explode because it will have immediately never have existed as soon as Barry was never there to have made it.

Stoopid show didn't get a nerd to run their numbers.

 

[Christopher]

You know, now that I think about it, I don't have that much of a problem with the characters ignoring the singularity risk. It's hard for the human mind to accept the premise of an existential threat. We have a history of dismissing them as just too extreme to be believed and doing whatever crazy thing we want to anyway. That's why we built enough nuclear weapons to melt the crust of the planet. That's why climate change is now having visible and increasing impact while the corporate special interests and their bought politicians are still pretending nothing's wrong. That's why NASA still struggles to get enough funding for a program to scan the sky for potential planet-killing asteroids. As a rule, humans are terrible at grasping the reality of existential threats. They're just too big to seem real to us. Logically, we should recognize that such enormous risks outweigh the smaller gains we seek, but time and again we convince ourselves that the risk is too remote or too hard to take seriously, and we go ahead and do insanely dangerous things anyway.

So yeah, it was stupid and reckless of the characters, but such stupid recklessness is a recurring feature of human behavior, so it wasn't really implausible.

 

[JoeZhang]

OK - now answer this - why do they let Thawne go?

 

[Marc]

OK - now answer this - why do they let Thawne go?

Because the deal was he tells Barry how to save his mother, they let him go.