Spoilers The Expanse Season 5
- Thread starter KennyB
- Start date
I agree. The last two or three episodes in particular have felt like padding, like they're trying to hold off the significant plot developments for the finale.
That actually becomes a common thing in the novels starting with Book 5, which this season is based on, the Roci crew are all split up and have their own storylines until the novel's climax when they reunite. Which I agree is kind of annoying when you consider that at this point there's probably been more adventures with the Roci crew on their own than there has been with them together.
Well, in the books, Alex and Bobbie are supposed to...
Foil the attempt on the Martian Prime Minister's life. Since this happened instead off camera, it lacked a lot of impact. And they've just been cruising in the Razorback doing nothing for half the season now.
Other than this, the decision to kill Fred Johnson early, and the heavy toning down of the disaster of Earth (billions die in the aftermath, and Earth is evacuated) it's actually a very faithful adaptation of the book. Which is why I think people will be very let down by the ending of the season. No big space battle, and the bad guys basically win...for now.
Other than this, the decision to kill Fred Johnson early, and the heavy toning down of the disaster of Earth (billions die in the aftermath, and Earth is evacuated) it's actually a very faithful adaptation of the book. Which is why I think people will be very let down by the ending of the season. No big space battle, and the bad guys basically win...for now.
I thought this episode was very tense. Naomi trying to figure out a way to keep Holden from getting himself killed, the Earth government very actively discussing turning space-9/11 into a space multi-decade quadmire and parade of atrocities and, most interestingly, the ongoing question of how many of Drummer's friends can Marco murder before she either defies her family to go after him, or they realize that they aren't safe, either. And the ending felt like it had high meme potential. It's a shame the show doesn't have the mindshare as it deserves, it feels like "Tell James Holden I am in control" could've been the next "Can't stop the signal" or "The cake is a lie."
You need these slow periods too, sometimes. Not like some sci-fi shows that always have the pacing and intensity cranked up to eleven every week.
You need these slow periods too, sometimes. Not like some sci-fi shows that always have the pacing and intensity cranked up to eleven every week.
This was a great episode I thought, but one thing I'm picking up on is that they're talking about causalities in the millions.
Considering the level of disaster we're seeing throughout the season, shouldn't they be talking billions? I'm aware that official projections can shoot up easily, as they do irl, but you'd think that they'd unofficially be talking about billions.
Considering the level of disaster we're seeing throughout the season, shouldn't they be talking billions? I'm aware that official projections can shoot up easily, as they do irl, but you'd think that they'd unofficially be talking about billions.
the sooner we get back to Razorback and Earth/Luna and Drummer Inaros belter storylines as the main focus the better.
I like Nagata's character and I get the arc, but it has been all dragged out way too much to my liking.
only 2 more episodes in this excellent season
I like Nagata's character and I get the arc, but it has been all dragged out way too much to my liking.
only 2 more episodes in this excellent season
Was a good, tense episode.
The damage to Baltimore had me scratching my head a bit. Given where the asteroid hit in Pennsylvania (around Pottsville PA, by one map seen), having skyscrapers toppled by the shockwave in Baltimore seems like a big stretch; distances are too great. Philly is said to have taken damage and is the location of a relief center, and is bit less than 100 miles away (95 miles if your driving). But Baltimore? It's more than 110 miles away as the crow flies (130 miles if your driving
). I think the story folks and the VFX artists need to do a better job at coordination...
All in all, good episode. I agree with most folks up thread, the last 2 or 3 episodes do feel like padding (but it's really good padding)
The damage to Baltimore had me scratching my head a bit. Given where the asteroid hit in Pennsylvania (around Pottsville PA, by one map seen), having skyscrapers toppled by the shockwave in Baltimore seems like a big stretch; distances are too great. Philly is said to have taken damage and is the location of a relief center, and is bit less than 100 miles away (95 miles if your driving). But Baltimore? It's more than 110 miles away as the crow flies (130 miles if your driving
). I think the story folks and the VFX artists need to do a better job at coordination...All in all, good episode. I agree with most folks up thread, the last 2 or 3 episodes do feel like padding (but it's really good padding)
If next season is to be the last
It makes a bit of sense to tone down the death on Earth because we don't get a happy ending for the disaster until the Laconia books so leaving it in complete ruins at the end of next season would be a downer. On Fred I really loved his high G death in the books so thats a pity but better to trim the cast now than try tie everyone up with a season to go
I don't know how people will react to this post, but I have to be honest.
I love The Expanse. I love what it has done with Sci Fi, the stories it tells, and how the characters interact. With that said, I'm ready to say Season 5 is the worst season of the series. I'm watching episode 9 and it feels like I'm watching a soap opera. You have the various storylines going on, having nothing to do with one another, and we are at the end of the season and what I said last week is applicable to this week. Nothing happened in this episode. Oh sure, Amos and Clarissa got off the planet and there was a gun fight (Which was probably the best thing about this episode), but that is minor compared to what I expect in a penultimate episode of a season. I am now expecting the Roci crew will not get back together, and these storylines will not converge into something grand and majestic in the finale, unless the finale is like 3 hours long.
What has happened in this show? I am not a book reader, so I don't know if the Books are paced like the show, but this series is a slog to get through. I would have liked this episode a lot more if Amos was back on the Rocinante right now. I would have liked this episode a lot more if there was a full fledged fleet surrounding Marcos's ship ready for the final show down. I would have liked this episode more of Alex and Bobbie actually got off the Razorback and revealed to the entire Belt what was going on.
What did we get instead? Avasarela leading a protest against the AG. Holden is still standing on the Roci not doing anything. More drama for drama's sake (Even though I did like the scene between Drummer and the other girl). Next week is the finale and there is no way they can give this season a resolution that would be satisfactory, or at least I don't see it.
It's one thing to adapt a book for a TV series. You still need to make that series entertaining and pace it in a way where if you do an arc, you need to have some kind of closure to end the season, even if it is not complete closure. This season is too slow, too boring, and not very Expanse. I'm disappointed because going into this season and the episode where you get that huge tidal wave, the show was actually great and it was coming off the heals of that awesome Mandalorian Finale. Ever since that episode, this season has been exceedingly hard to get through.
I love The Expanse. I love what it has done with Sci Fi, the stories it tells, and how the characters interact. With that said, I'm ready to say Season 5 is the worst season of the series. I'm watching episode 9 and it feels like I'm watching a soap opera. You have the various storylines going on, having nothing to do with one another, and we are at the end of the season and what I said last week is applicable to this week. Nothing happened in this episode. Oh sure, Amos and Clarissa got off the planet and there was a gun fight (Which was probably the best thing about this episode), but that is minor compared to what I expect in a penultimate episode of a season. I am now expecting the Roci crew will not get back together, and these storylines will not converge into something grand and majestic in the finale, unless the finale is like 3 hours long.
What has happened in this show? I am not a book reader, so I don't know if the Books are paced like the show, but this series is a slog to get through. I would have liked this episode a lot more if Amos was back on the Rocinante right now. I would have liked this episode a lot more if there was a full fledged fleet surrounding Marcos's ship ready for the final show down. I would have liked this episode more of Alex and Bobbie actually got off the Razorback and revealed to the entire Belt what was going on.
What did we get instead? Avasarela leading a protest against the AG. Holden is still standing on the Roci not doing anything. More drama for drama's sake (Even though I did like the scene between Drummer and the other girl). Next week is the finale and there is no way they can give this season a resolution that would be satisfactory, or at least I don't see it.
It's one thing to adapt a book for a TV series. You still need to make that series entertaining and pace it in a way where if you do an arc, you need to have some kind of closure to end the season, even if it is not complete closure. This season is too slow, too boring, and not very Expanse. I'm disappointed because going into this season and the episode where you get that huge tidal wave, the show was actually great and it was coming off the heals of that awesome Mandalorian Finale. Ever since that episode, this season has been exceedingly hard to get through.
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I've enjoyed Season 5, it had one of the best episodes. That said, it has legitimately felt like almost every episode has been a "set up" for the next episode, then it isn't. Nothing is fundamentally progressing a great deal. Most of the characters feel like they've more or less been in transit for the past 5 episodes. Maybe Season 6 is just gonna be crazy?
I mean, going by the books, Nemesis Games is basically just the setup for Babylon's Ashes. So I expect the same thing to be the case here. The most we can expect from the finale is the Roci crew are reunited - and the big bad who is pulling Inaros's strings is revealed. That's about it.
Basically, the whole point of the book Nemesis Games was to give book readers deeper insight into the four main crew of the Roci, giving each one their own independent (mis)adventure. Naomi and Amos have pretty complete stories which are very similar to what I remember from the books. But Holden and Alex have been incredibly pared back this season compared to their book adventures (particularly after the asteroid drop). I think part of this is because the season expands characters who were not POV in the book, like Bobbie, Chrisjen, Drummer, and even to an extent Filip.
So then you have the most recent episode. Naomi effectively does almost nothing this episode. I almost audibly groaned when I saw that once again we were checking back in with her. But then we check in with Holden, Alex/Bobbie, Filip, and Drummer, and in all cases they are talking about Naomi. Thus the majority of the episode was the characters more or less waiting around for Naomi's situation to resolve itself. Except for Amos/Peaches, and Chrisjen, who were doing their own thing. And not surprisingly, this stuff was far and away the most effective part of the episode.
Really though I think the structural mistake they made was they fired the gun, so to speak, too early in the season. There were a lot of additional things that Holden and Alex/Bobbie could have done (and to some extend did do in the books) prior to getting stuck on their ships. But now they're really, really limited as the characters are literally in transit. In contrast, Amos only got onboard a ship in the penultimate episode - and he had a pretty great earthbound arc.
Although this was probably one of the better episodes this season, I have to say echo my sentiments from last week that for the past few weeks it does basically feel like this show is basically in a "holding pattern" to wait until the (presumably) executing the significant plot developments in the finale. Okay this week we had development on the Amos and Peaches front, and development with Avasarala and the UN government on the moon. But everyone else was just the same as last week and in a few cases the same as weeks before. Holden and Bull talk gruffly and directly to each other. Alex and Bobbie fly around in the Razorback. Naomi continues her attempts to gain control of her ship. Marco's plant on Drummer's ship stirs shit up. Marco and Filip have awkward father-son moment.
They might have been better off structuring this season by allowing episodes to focus exclusively on one or two arcs. Like...just let this episode be about Amos/Peaches on Earth, with a side of Chrisjen. Either cut the other scenes entirely or shunt them into another episode.
For those asking; yeah, this is pretty much how the book is paced, precisely because it's setting up for the next season/book. They're really a duology in the same way books 1 & 2 were closely linked.
Personally, I'm really enjoying it. The IP has always been surprisingly agile at shifting genres from one story to the next, but this season is pulling off multiple genres in parallel; an almost Emmerichian style disaster survival movie with Earth and Luna, a castaway/lone wilderness survival type story with Naomi, and basically a Bond villain in a Tom Clancy geopolitical thriller as a backdrop to the whole thing.
Personally, I'm really enjoying it. The IP has always been surprisingly agile at shifting genres from one story to the next, but this season is pulling off multiple genres in parallel; an almost Emmerichian style disaster survival movie with Earth and Luna, a castaway/lone wilderness survival type story with Naomi, and basically a Bond villain in a Tom Clancy geopolitical thriller as a backdrop to the whole thing.
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While I like season 5 overall quite a lot, the last couple of episodes feel mostly dragging the things out too long regarding Naomi's escape and potential rescue arc. This unfortunately also keeps the Drummer vs Karal (& Inaros) looming conflict with possibly Drummer's crew in the cross-hairs, as well as Razorback (Alex/Bobbie) and the Roci in a holding pattern.
The Amos/Peaches Earth escape, as well as what happens on Luna actually progresses their characters and arcs forward.
As some here pointed out, having the different storylines and character arcs separated as their own (multi)episodes after the premiere until the finale could have been a solution.
Still looking forward to the finale of season 5 next week where hopefully most characters and storylines converge.
The Amos/Peaches Earth escape, as well as what happens on Luna actually progresses their characters and arcs forward.
As some here pointed out, having the different storylines and character arcs separated as their own (multi)episodes after the premiere until the finale could have been a solution.
Still looking forward to the finale of season 5 next week where hopefully most characters and storylines converge.
This was the seasons best episode IMO. Some terrific writing and the actors showing off how good they are. Things are happening, its just not all pew pew and explosion's. We also have a half dozen different viewpoints so its jumping around allot. We are seeing a new/changed Avasiralla, Drummer being put in an impossible situation along with Naomi who's every attempt to save her friends failing leading her to have to make some sort of final choice. All these characters are coming to together after having been apart all season.
I disagree with not liking the Roci crew being apart. This was needed after 4 seasons and allowed for story telling they haven't done before. Yea its been a slow burn at times but when its done this well I don't mind it.
Have a feeling some big things will go down next week.
I disagree with not liking the Roci crew being apart. This was needed after 4 seasons and allowed for story telling they haven't done before. Yea its been a slow burn at times but when its done this well I don't mind it.
Have a feeling some big things will go down next week.
think I've seen First Contact too many times - I expected Magic Carpet Ride to play at one point
also put me down as one who is well and truly over it with the Naomi scenes - just too reparative.
lost count of the number of times we've seen her go in, do whatever (I'm not even sure what she's doing) and race out again.
also put me down as one who is well and truly over it with the Naomi scenes - just too reparative.
lost count of the number of times we've seen her go in, do whatever (I'm not even sure what she's doing) and race out again.